Stuck behind a Leaf in HOV lane

[DeaneG]

I use the HOV lane most weekdays. It's probably the main reason I took a chance and bought the car. It's been very worthwhile.

 

[TNleaf]

I'm not a bicyclist, but I'm curious -- are they totally immune to stop signs, stop lights, and so on? I see every bicyclist in San Diego blowing through intersections like they have Diplomatic Immunity. Is there a special VC carveout for this?

You see EVERY cyclist doing that? Wow. I've cycled in San Diego and stopped at intersections, so I guess our paths haven't yet crossed.

Not sure who messed up the quotes or even how, but I had the most confused look on my face when I read that post, but just a heads up the part with my name in quotes is not my post. /shrug

Sooo back on topic. I got my HOV lane sticker for TN's weak and rarely enforced HOV lane. I never put it on my car since I rarely commute via the interstate. Then again, HOV in TN is usually populated with gas-guzzling SOLO speeders. Just the other day during prime rush hour, I see a big red H2 hummer (the bigger ones) in the HOV lane just cruising along, windows down, only the driver in the car. Oh the times I wish a police officer would appear...

 

[Smidge204]

Perhaps I should clarify what I mean by "no such thing as a passing lane."

If you are driving on a multilane highway, the other lanes are not "passing lanes" but merely "other lanes." I guess what I'm trying to say is it's perfectly acceptable to drive the speed limit in the leftmost lane. If you are going to pass someone, do it on the left - and to facilitate that, slower traffic should keep right - but that does not make the left lane a "passing lane."

Though someone did mention local laws specifically requiring you to keep to the right, which is new to me. I think it flies in the face of the unspoken code of highway courtesy.

I'm not defending cyclists who break the laws. I am only pointing out the absurdity of calling the pot black. In general, most car drivers find it perfectly acceptable to travel at 70 mph on a roadway with a 65mph speed limit. And those same people will complain about a cyclist rolling through a stop sign.

There's a slight difference between driving 5+ over the speed limit when the vast majority of traffic is also driving about that speed, and blowing through intersections unannounced...
=Smidge=

 

[Yodrak]

I've been licensed to drive in 4 states. 3 of the 4 have specific requirements to drive in the right-hand lane unless ...
In the following quotes from the drivers manuals of those 3 states the underlining is mine.

DRIVE IN THE PROPER LANE
When driving on a highway with a total of two lanes (one lane in each
direction), drive in the right hand lane. You may cross the center line for
passing when there are no oncoming vehicles and no solid yellow line. On
highways with a total of four or more lanes (two or more lanes in each
direction), always keep to the right unless you are passing slower traffic,
letting another driver have room to enter safely, or getting ready to make a
legal left turn.

Keeping to the right
The laws of __________ require motorists to keep to the right, except when passing. Motorists must drive on the right half of the roadway unless driving on a one-way street. Motorists must drive a vehicle as close as possible to the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle. (N.J.S.A. 39:4-82)
On a multi-lane roadway, motorists must drive in the lane nearest to the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway when the lane is available for travel, except when overtaking another vehicle or in preparation for a left turn.

Using Lanes
Always use traffic lanes as they are defined by pavement markings and road signs. Many
intersections have special lanes marked for turns. Follow the rules of the road, using the
proper lanes for turning and driving straight ahead.
On roadways with two or more lanes in your travel direction, use the right lane for driving
unless...
• You are passing another vehicle.
• You are making a left turn.
• The right lane is blocked.


I am curious how these state laws "fl[y] in the face of the unspoken code of highway courtesy." I am even more curious as to what "the unspoken code of highway courtesy" is. If it's unspoken, how is anyone to know that there even is such a code? I suspect that the code is something that does exist for each of us, and that each of us has our own version that may have differences in some ways from everyone else's version. The problems arise when two drivers with significantly different versions are on the same stretch of road at the same time.

Though someone did mention local laws specifically requiring you to keep to the right, which is new to me. I think it flies in the face of the unspoken code of highway courtesy.

=Smidge=

 

[darelldd]

I'm not defending cyclists who break the laws. I am only pointing out the absurdity of calling the pot black. In general, most car drivers find it perfectly acceptable to travel at 70 mph on a roadway with a 65mph speed limit. And those same people will complain about a cyclist rolling through a stop sign.

There's a slight difference between driving 5+ over the speed limit when the vast majority of traffic is also driving about that speed, and blowing through intersections unannounced...
=Smidge=

Here we get into the problem of not separating law from all the other aspects of driving. So first off, they're both illegal - subtle differences or not.

But if we really want to continue this... it was originally stated that EVERY cyclist in San Diego does this. So if it is OK for cars to speed (since all the other drivers are doing it) then logically I guess it should be OK for every cyclist to blow through intersections since all the other cyclists are doing it.

Again, I'm not defending law-breaking here. Just pointing out that we ALL do it. I don't think it is possible to drive or cycle any appreciable distance and not break some law at some point. The law is the law. Following it is not always the best or more practical, or safest or most convenient course of action. I'm just tired of hearing how some things aren't *really* illegal because (fill in the blank) everybody else is doing it, nobody gets a ticket for it, it is safe, I should have the right... whatever. Exceeding the posted speed limit is illegal. Not stopping at stop signs (whether in a car or on a bike) is illegal. Either action might be "safe" in a given situation. Both are illegal.

In the end, car drivers tend to focus on the law-breaking of cyclists. Cyclists tend to focus on the law-breaking of cars drivers. Both tend to have an amazing ignorance of the Vehicle Code. Regardless of any broken laws, we all just need to get along.

 

[Nubo]

Regardless of any broken laws, we all just need to get along.

I will agree with that. And I will do my part in allowing for differences, and moving over when practical. I'm not out to be a speed vigilante. My disappointment is that the courtesy is not always extended by the speeders.

Let me use Interstate 5 through CA as an example. 2 lanes, speed limit 70 (for cars). I've set cruise at 70. I stay right as practical. As I approach a truck doing 60-65, I move left well in advance to pass, without cutting anyone off. If there are several trucks, passing the group may take a few minutes. That gives time for the fellow a mile back, doing 90mph, to close the gap and come up behind me.

Now, if we're extending courtesy both ways, Mr. 90mph can see that I'm in process of passing the slower trucks. He should not insist that I accelerate to 90mph, and should not expect me to dangerously try to insert myself between 2 large trucks for his benefit. He should simply accept the plain fact that he has encountered traffic, and wait for my pass to complete.

This is rarely what happens. Mr. 90mph appears out of the distance, and runs up to within inches of my bumper to express his displeasure.

I'm sorry, but much of the rationalizations that people throw out there are simply attempts to justify the actions of THIS guy, and that bothers me.

I should end by saying that I've been the fast driver on plenty of occasions. But I don't presume that other drivers have an obligation to make special accommodations when I know very well that I'm exceeding the speed limit. I do not tailgate to "make them go faster". I wait my turn. They are under no obligation to abet me.

 

[darelldd]

The problems arise when two drivers with significantly different versions are on the same stretch of road at the same time.

Indeed! Well said. And yet we still have people arguing about by how much our Vehicle Code laws can be broken while still abiding by this mysterious code.

 

[darelldd]

I will agree with that. And I will do my part in allowing for differences, and moving over when practical. I'm not out to be a speed vigilante. My disappointment is that the courtesy is not always extended by the speeders.

....

Mr. 90mph appears out of the distance, and runs up to within inches of my bumper to express his displeasure.

I'm sorry, but much of the rationalizations that people throw out there are simply attempts to justify the actions of THIS guy, and that bothers me.

I should end by saying that I've been the fast driver on plenty of occasions. But I don't presume that other drivers have an obligation to make special accommodations when I know very well that I'm exceeding the speed limit. I do not tailgate to "make them go faster". I wait my turn. They are under no obligation to abet me.

You and I are absolutely on the same page here. But don't lose sight of what I said: We ALL need to get along. If one doesn't extend the courtesy, then the plan fails by definition.

Amazing to me is when, similar to your given example, Mr. 90mph has TONS of distance AND multiple lanes to choose from to go around me, yet makes the decision to come directly up behind me as if to make CERTAIN that I know I'm holding him up. And at the time of this happening, I'm in the far right lane of a multi-lane highway going the speed limit.

 

[garygid]

Blowing through a stop sign/light in any vehicle (car, bicycle, etc.)
not only puts your life at risk, but usually some other life as well.

Mostly, safety is a life-style choice, I think, but perhaps
some have very little to lose, and care even less about others.

Myself, I choose safety.
Had I not, I would, most likely, have died years ago.

 

[thankyouOB]

Regardless of any broken laws, we all just need to get along.

I will agree with that. And I will do my part in allowing for differences, and moving over when practical. I'm not out to be a speed vigilante. My disappointment is that the courtesy is not always extended by the speeders.

Let me use Interstate 5 through CA as an example. 2 lanes, speed limit 70 (for cars). I've set cruise at 70. I stay right as practical. As I approach a truck doing 60-65, I move left well in advance to pass, without cutting anyone off. If there are several trucks, passing the group may take a few minutes. That gives time for the fellow a mile back, doing 90mph, to close the gap and come up behind me.

Now, if we're extending courtesy both ways, Mr. 90mph can see that I'm in process of passing the slower trucks. He should not insist that I accelerate to 90mph, and should not expect me to dangerously try to insert myself between 2 large trucks for his benefit. He should simply accept the plain fact that he has encountered traffic, and wait for my pass to complete.

This is rarely what happens. Mr. 90mph appears out of the distance, and runs up to within inches of my bumper to express his displeasure.

I'm sorry, but much of the rationalizations that people throw out there are simply attempts to justify the actions of THIS guy, and that bothers me.

I should end by saying that I've been the fast driver on plenty of occasions. But I don't presume that other drivers have an obligation to make special accommodations when I know very well that I'm exceeding the speed limit. I do not tailgate to "make them go faster". I wait my turn. They are under no obligation to abet me.

well put and it also provides the answer to the question above about the lout who tailgates a car going the speed limit in the HOV lane; which one is the rude and obnoxious person?
And who is making the road more dangerous for all?

 

[garygid]

Deciding to travel too close behind another vehicle
is a lot like deciding to blow through stops.
Those folks apparently don't care very much if they live or die,
or cause others to be injured or killed.

Letting the overly-speedy folks go by, if and when safe to do so,
just gives more "bate" for the police ahead who are "fishing",
more typically for unsafe drivers rather than those just technically illegal.

Generally, if you are looking for room to cut into my lane,
I will provide space, right in front of me.

 

[travisty]

This is not fully true. Multi-lane roads can also allow slower traffic - 18 wheelers going uphill - to be passes safely. In Colorado it is law that unless you're passing you must stay in the right lane. Of course no cops actually enforce this law, but it is on the books...

I was pulled over for a warning shortly after the law was passed several years ago, before I was aware of it [it is only for highways with two or more lanes in each direction AND speed limits of 65 mph or greater; with slower speed roads passing lanes are usually posted as "Keep Right Except When Passing", else the law does not apply]. I follow it assiduously now. However, there are no two+two lane highways within LEAF range, so it is moot for me in the EV.

Thanks for the warning dgp!

(Nothing to see here, don't derail the thread)