TAX question of the day....week....year?

[etracing]

How much does it cost the paying Taxpayer to cover the $7500 rebate for my Nissan leaf?

Thanks!

 

[Nubo]

That's a political and philosophical question.

One camp might say that it increases the national debt by $7500 and our children/grandchildren will pay $7500 plus interest in taxes to cover it.

Another camp might say the $7500 is your money to begin with and the government didn't have the right to take it in the first place.

Yet another camp might say that money is fungible, and yes reducing federal revenue by $7500 has to be made up somewhere else (reducing spending, increasing taxes, increasing debt, etc...) so that the government is "spending" $7500. The question then becomes is the $7500 expenditure worth it in terms of benefit to society as a whole.

I would fall into the 3rd camp, and in my opinions the problems of foreign oil dependence and pollution are so dire that the accelerated adoption of alternative energy for transportation is well worth the money being spent to incentivize it, and that in fact our continued prosperity is fundamentally dependent on our ability to transition away from our current dependence on petroleum.

 

[sproqitman]

The Federal government hands out tax credits for all kinds of things. In the past 5 years, I've collected tax credits/rebates for installing double-pane windows, a new gas furnace, and a tankless water heater. This year, I'll be getting a tax credit for buying an electric vehicle. The IRS also hands out incentives to "small businesses" to buy SUVs and pickup trucks. So, yes, it will cost the average taxpayer $0.50 to fund the credits for the 10,000 Leafs sold to date, but it pales in comparison to the money I've paid out to fund all the Escalades in the Century 21 parking lot.

 

[Nubo]

The Federal government hands out tax credits for all kinds of things. In the past 5 years, I've collected tax credits/rebates for installing double-pane windows, a new gas furnace, and a tankless water heater. This year, I'll be getting a tax credit for buying an electric vehicle. The IRS also hands out incentives to "small businesses" to buy SUVs and pickup trucks. So, yes, it will cost the average taxpayer $0.50 to fund the credits for the 10,000 Leafs sold to date, but it pales in comparison to the money I've paid out to fund all the Escalades in the Century 21 parking lot.

I know, I freaked out a few years back when my brother-in-law got some huge vehicle almost for free due to the tax break. I asked how he qualified, and the answer was simply that the "car" weighed more than 6,000 pounds :?

 

[thankyouOB]

when the federal government can borrow at less than the rate of inflation, stimulus is a good thing.

however, asking an particular question such as that is a provocative thing to do. Why not ask the same question about tax credits for oil drilling, deductions for the business lunches and all those trips to exotic places where trade groups hold their "meetings," as well as child-care credits and the personal deductions for children?

as another poster pointed out--there were all those incentives for the giant truck/cars, as well as write offs for yachts and private planes.

I will say it was good for me and also everyone else, as it eliminates all the air pollution I am not producing.

 

[tjz]

I agree. It has cost the taxpayers around $3.7T to fund the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. One could argue that these wars might never have been fought if our oil money did not go to countries and individuals that are unfriendly to us. Oil companies get tax breaks of around $4B / year. How many electric vehicle credits went out last year? Say 20K electric cars at $7.5K per car = $150M. Yes, it has cost the taxpayers to kick-start the electric vehicle market, but nothing close to what it costs to maintain our dependence on oil.

I would fall into the 3rd camp, and in my opinions the problems of foreign oil dependence and pollution are so dire that the accelerated adoption of alternative energy for transportation is well worth the money being spent to incentivize it, and that in fact our continued prosperity is fundamentally dependent on our ability to transition away from our current dependence on petroleum.

 

[Reddy]

Better yet, if there was $150M in tax breaks, how long will it take for all of the collective EV'ers to save that much money in gas (i.e., money that doesn't leave the country immediately)? Hmmm, if the average EVer saved $200/mo, that's only a bit more than 3 yr. All that money sloshing around buying services, getting taxed in the good ole USA. Sounds like a good way to increase tax revenue! :shock:

Reddy

 

[etracing]

Mmmmm Stirred up the waters did I?

Great opinions and facts, but I was looking for a actual number like.... .000002 cents per person?

 

[sproqitman]

Mmmmm Stirred up the waters did I?

Great opinions and facts, but I was looking for a actual number like.... .000002 cents per person?

It was buried in my response. It works out to $0.50 per taxpayer for the 10,000 Leafs sold to date ($75M/150M). Over the lifetime of the program, I think they've allocated $7.5B, which works out to $50 per taxpayer. Which is less than a third of what it will "cost" to allow the top 25 hedge fund managers to be taxed at the capital gains rate instead of their normal rate over the same time period.

 

[etracing]

Mmmmm Stirred up the waters did I?

Great opinions and facts, but I was looking for a actual number like.... .000002 cents per person?

It was buried in my response. It works out to $0.50 per taxpayer for the 10,000 Leafs sold to date ($75M/150M). Over the lifetime of the program, I think they've allocated $7.5B, which works out to $50 per taxpayer. Which is less than a third of what it will "cost" to allow the top 25 hedge fund managers to be taxed at the capital gains rate instead of their normal rate over the same time period.

Interesting numbers .... My math (not that best a math) shows we took in 1,450,630,000,000 with 177,904,492 returns

Not sure where to place the $7500.

 

[lpickup]

Mmmmm Stirred up the waters did I?

Great opinions and facts, but I was looking for a actual number like.... .000002 cents per person?

Probably a better way to ask it though is for every $1 a person pays in taxes how much goes towards your LEAF. Because you can't just divide the total revenue by number of taxpayers since we all pay different amounts of tax. My son for example, paid $4 this year--me made $138 over the $5700 minimum income to pay taxes. I paid just a little bit more!

 

[etracing]

Mmmmm Stirred up the waters did I?

Great opinions and facts, but I was looking for a actual number like.... .000002 cents per person?

Probably a better way to ask it though is for every $1 a person pays in taxes how much goes towards your LEAF. Because you can't just divide the total revenue by number of taxpayers since we all pay different amounts of tax. My son for example, paid $4 this year--me made $138 over the $5700 minimum income to pay taxes. I paid just a little bit more!

Agreed. I was trying to get the age old answer to the folks that complain about paying taxes for MY leaf.

I was hoping it was about .0002cents so I could send them a penny so they could share it with their friends that think the same way.

 

[LakeLeaf]

$17,000

 

[etracing]

$17,000

Mmmmmm....OK.....I think?

Could you please send me your portion?

 

[LakeLeaf]

$17,000

Mmmmmm....OK.....I think?

Could you please send me your portion?

I already have, and it looks like I'll continue to pay for our government's deficit spending for the rest of my life.

 

[thankyouOB]

I already have, and it looks like I'll continue to pay for our government's deficit spending for the rest of my life.

It is the price you pay for living in a civilized society.

 

[LakeLeaf]

I already have, and it looks like I'll continue to pay for our government's deficit spending for the rest of my life.

It is the price you pay for living in a civilized society.

Yes - this is a many, many, many beer topic.

Maybe someday I'll have the privilege of meeting you and sharing a drink or two.

 

[etracing]

Please lock this thread since it seems we will be not getting an useful answer to my question.

Thanks!

 

[garygid]

Your question was answered:
about 50¢ per taxpayer.

$7500 * about 10,000 EVs = $75,000,000

divide by 177,000,000 taxpayers = about $0.50 each

 

[Nubo]

Your question was answered:
about 50¢ per taxpayer.

$7500 * about 10,000 EVs = $75,000,000

divide by 177,000,000 taxpayers = about $0.50 each

But for HIS LEAF (which I think was what he was after), the cost would be 50 cents divided by 10,000, or 0.005 cents