Temp Bars for Battery

[jcan]

I'm wondering if anyone knows what temperature the battery bars correspond too?

 

[kolmstead]

At the top of this page is a button called "Nissan Leaf Wiki". Take a look there under battery info. Battery temperature bars is one of the subtopics.

-Karl

 

[carphen]

You may find the answer confusing, as I did.... each bar seems to cover a huge range of temperature.. in fact I wonder why they bothered with a gauge, and just put a red (hot) and blue (cold) warning light... my gauge hasn't moved off # 6 ever!

 

[cracovian]

You may find the answer confusing, as I did.... each bar seems to cover a huge range of temperature.. in fact I wonder why they bothered with a gauge, and just put a red (hot) and blue (cold) warning light... my gauge hasn't moved off # 6 ever!

What pisses me off is that 8 bars would still be considered "normal" but it isn't...

 

[TonyWilliams]

LEAF Batt Temp
Segments Degrees C (F). Temp difference
12----------60---------(140).........4.5F
11----------57.5-------(135.5)......4.5F
10----------55---------(131).........4.5F
9-----------52.5-------(126.5)......4.5F
8-----------50---------(122)........23.8F
7-----------36.8-------(98.2)......23.9F
6-----------23.5-------(74.3)......23.9F
5-----------10.3-------(50.5)......23.9F
4----------/ -3---------(26.6).......5.4F
3----------/ -6---------(21.2).......5.4F
2----------/ -9---------(15.8).......5.4F
1----------/-12--------(10.4).......5.4F
0----------/ -15---------(5).........5.4F

 

[GetOffYourGas]

You may find the answer confusing, as I did.... each bar seems to cover a huge range of temperature..

I agree completely with you here.

in fact I wonder why they bothered with a gauge, and just put a red (hot) and blue (cold) warning light... my gauge hasn't moved off # 6 ever!

I disagree here. I'm glad they have a gauge, I just wish it was better. I have seen anywhere from 3-7 bars. Truth is, charging the battery above 6 bars is likely to cause a great deal of stress/wear and tear, but Nissan doesn't make that very well known.

LEAF Batt Temp
Segments Degrees C (F). Temp difference
12----------60---------(140).........4.5F
11----------57.5-------(135.5)......4.5F
10----------55---------(131).........4.5F
9-----------52.5-------(126.5)......4.5F
8-----------50---------(122)........23.8F
7-----------36.8-------(98.2)......23.9F
6-----------23.5-------(74.3)......23.9F
5-----------10.3-------(50.5)......23.9F
4----------/ -3---------(26.6).......5.4F
3----------/ -6---------(21.2).......5.4F
2----------/ -9---------(15.8).......5.4F
1----------/-12--------(10.4).......5.4F
0----------/ -15---------(5).........5.4F

Ok, Tony, pop quiz. The battery temp is 80F. Are there 5, 6 or 7 bars illuminated? (hint: according to the wiki, all are possible...what is it based on?)

Now the car is running, and the battery temperature rises to 85F. How many bars are now illuminated?

 

[planet4ever]

Ok, Tony, pop quiz. The battery temp is 80F. Are there 5, 6 or 7 bars illuminated? (hint: according to the wiki, all are possible...what is it based on?)

Tony seems still to be quoting the [ambiguous] information that was in the original edition of the 2011 Service Manual. I changed the Wiki to report the [unambiguous but bewildering] information given in the second, April 2011, edition of that manual. You could have seen what the source was yourself if you had clicked the reference number shown on the title of the table.

Ray

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Ok, Tony, pop quiz. The battery temp is 80F. Are there 5, 6 or 7 bars illuminated? (hint: according to the wiki, all are possible...what is it based on?)

Tony seems still to be quoting the [ambiguous] information that was in the original edition of the 2011 Service Manual. I changed the Wiki to report the [unambiguous but bewildering] information given in the second, April 2011, edition of that manual. You could have seen what the source was yourself if you had clicked the reference number shown on the title of the table.

Ray

The source of the information is irrelevant here. Carphen commented that the chart is horrible confusing (with which I agree 100%). Afterwards, Tony posted a slightly different chart, which didn't really help clear anything up.

Right or wrong, my interpretation of the bars is: more than 6, and I don't charge the battery. Less than 5, and I should expect reduced capacity. (Recognizing of course that the former may not be realistic in an Arizona summer - it would be impossible to ever charge!).

 

[TonyWilliams]

LEAF Batt Temp
Segments Degrees C (F). Temp difference
12----------60---------(140).........4.5F
11----------57.5-------(135.5)......4.5F
10----------55---------(131).........4.5F
9-----------52.5-------(126.5)......4.5F
8-----------50---------(122)........23.8F
7-----------36.8-------(98.2)......23.9F
6-----------23.5-------(74.3)......23.9F
5-----------10.3-------(50.5)......23.9F
4----------/ -3---------(26.6).......5.4F
3----------/ -6---------(21.2).......5.4F
2----------/ -9---------(15.8).......5.4F
1----------/-12--------(10.4).......5.4F
0----------/ -15---------(5).........5.4F

Ok, Tony, pop quiz. The battery temp is 80F. Are there 5, 6 or 7 bars illuminated? (hint: according to the wiki, all are possible...what is it based on?)

Now the car is running, and the battery temperature rises to 85F. How many bars are now illuminated?

The confusing chart with degradation tables is a bit of a challenge. But, for the two LEAFs I've owned over 36,000 miles, they followed the quoted table quite nicely.

I have never seen anything other than six bars at 80F, unless the car was recently exposed to some temperature below 74F, or I quick charged the car. It really is that simple. There are four temp probes (thermistors), and the resistance values are given in the service manual. There's not a lot of secrets to get the accurate data, and LEAFscan should be able to report this.

I've had 10 temperature bars displayed (after 8 quick charge events in 65F-ish ambient temps) and 5 temperature bars for the coldest it gets in San Diego. I've never seen 4. Without exception, the temperature readout has matched my expectations of the battery temperature based on the above chart.

So, in summary, I'm content with the temp table I use, and look forward to LEAFscan in the future. If LEAFscan, or some other OBD2 device can't read the battery temp, I'm going to drop the battery and hard wire my own battery temperature gauge.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Right or wrong, my interpretation of the bars is: more than 6, and I don't charge the battery. Less than 5, and I should expect reduced capacity. (Recognizing of course that the former may not be realistic in an Arizona summer - it would be impossible to ever charge!).

Probably good advice, and as you recognize, completely unrealistic for a battery without temperature control driven all around the world.

 

[Stanton]

Right or wrong, my interpretation of the bars is: more than 6, and I don't charge the battery. Less than 5, and I should expect reduced capacity. (Recognizing of course that the former may not be realistic in an Arizona summer - it would be impossible to ever charge!).

I agree and abide by this policy; the more Leaf owners are made aware of this the happier they (and their Leaf's) will be.

 

[DesertDenizen]

Right or wrong, my interpretation of the bars is: more than 6, and I don't charge the battery. Less than 5, and I should expect reduced capacity. (Recognizing of course that the former may not be realistic in an Arizona summer - it would be impossible to ever charge!).

I have never charged with more than 6 temp bars. I charge at around 6 in the morning and even here in Tucson at that time I show 5, or at times, 6 temp bars.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Right or wrong, my interpretation of the bars is: more than 6, and I don't charge the battery. Less than 5, and I should expect reduced capacity. (Recognizing of course that the former may not be realistic in an Arizona summer - it would be impossible to ever charge!).

I have never charged with more than 6 temp bars. I charge at around 6 in the morning and even here in Tucson at that time I show 5, or at times, 6 temp bars.

Fair enough, but isn't Tuscon cooler than Phoenix? It's definitely cooler than Yuma. There are probably others who would not be able to use their cars if they didn't charge above 6 bars.

FWIW, I have actually charged at 7 bars, but that was before I knew about the issues in the southwest. Also, I didn't need to charge then and there. I could have easily put off charging until that night. After I learned about the battery issues, and seeing that battery temperature most likely affects longevity, I will not charge again with 7+ bars.

 

[TomT]

I have never even seen 7 temperature bars, let alone charged at them, and yet, I am still down two capacity bars...

Right or wrong, my interpretation of the bars is: more than 6, and I don't charge the battery. Less than 5, and I should expect reduced capacity. (Recognizing of course that the former may not be realistic in an Arizona summer - it would be impossible to ever charge!).

I agree and abide by this policy; the more Leaf owners are made aware of this the happier they (and their Leaf's) will be.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I have never even seen 7 temperature bars, let alone charged at them, and yet, I am still down two capacity bars...

Right or wrong, my interpretation of the bars is: more than 6, and I don't charge the battery. Less than 5, and I should expect reduced capacity. (Recognizing of course that the former may not be realistic in an Arizona summer - it would be impossible to ever charge!).

I agree and abide by this policy; the more Leaf owners are made aware of this the happier they (and their Leaf's) will be.

I'm sorry to hear that you are down in capacity. I never said or implied that temperature alone is the factor. However, everything I have read suggests that it is A factor. I try to do everything I can to baby the battery, but Nissan has been anything but forthcoming about exactly what affects the battery and how.

 

[dgpcolorado]

LEAF Batt Temp
Segments Degrees C (F). Temp difference
12----------60---------(140).........4.5F
11----------57.5-------(135.5)......4.5F
10----------55---------(131).........4.5F
9-----------52.5-------(126.5)......4.5F
8-----------50---------(122)........23.8F
7-----------36.8-------(98.2)......23.9F
6-----------23.5-------(74.3)......23.9F
5-----------10.3-------(50.5)......23.9F
4----------/ -3---------(26.6).......5.4F
3----------/ -6---------(21.2).......5.4F
2----------/ -9---------(15.8).......5.4F
1----------/-12--------(10.4).......5.4F
0----------/ -15---------(5).........5.4F

Ok, Tony, pop quiz. The battery temp is 80F. Are there 5, 6 or 7 bars illuminated? (hint: according to the wiki, all are possible...what is it based on?)

Now the car is running, and the battery temperature rises to 85F. How many bars are now illuminated?

The confusing chart with degradation tables is a bit of a challenge. But, for the two LEAFs I've owned over 36,000 miles, they followed the quoted table quite nicely.

I have never seen anything other than six bars at 80F, unless the car was recently exposed to some temperature below 74F, or I quick charged the car. It really is that simple. There are four temp probes (thermistors), and the resistance values are given in the service manual. There's not a lot of secrets to get the accurate data, and LEAFscan should be able to report this.

I've had 10 temperature bars displayed (after 8 quick charge events in 65F-ish ambient temps) and 5 temperature bars for the coldest it gets in San Diego. I've never seen 4. Without exception, the temperature readout has matched my expectations of the battery temperature based on the above chart.

So, in summary, I'm content with the temp table I use, and look forward to LEAFscan in the future. If LEAFscan, or some other OBD2 device can't read the battery temp, I'm going to drop the battery and hard wire my own battery temperature gauge.

I also like the old temp bar table. It matches my experience for the transitions from four to five and five to six temp bars within a couple of degrees F.

The new table is just a mass of confusion for me. YMMV

 

[planet4ever]

I also like the old temp bar table. It matches my experience for the transitions from four to five and five to six temp bars within a couple of degrees F.

Well, if you are going to show the old table here or anywhere, please at least explain how you think its ambiguity is supposed to be understood. So it says that you have six bars at 74°F. Does that mean you have 7 bars at 75°F? Or does it mean you have 5 bars at 73°F? In other words, are those minimums or maximums?

Also, I really do believe we have to take Nissan at its word when they say, as they do above the new chart, that the number of bars for a given temperature varies depending on the remaining battery capacity.

The combination meter corrects a Li-ion battery temperature recognized by a Li-ion battery temperature signal, based on battery capacity recognized by a Li-ion battery gradual capacity loss signal. The combination meter then judges the number of segments to be lit.
NOTE: The number of lighting segments of the Li-ion battery temperature gauge depends on gradual loss of Li-ion battery capacity.

OK, so the translation from Japanese is a bit awkward, but they are clearly stating that they use some calculation based on both temperature and capacity in determining how many bars they will display.

Ray

 

[dgpcolorado]

I also like the old temp bar table. It matches my experience for the transitions from four to five and five to six temp bars within a couple of degrees F.

Well, if you are going to show the old table here or anywhere, please at least explain how you think its ambiguity is supposed to be understood. So it says that you have six bars at 74°F. Does that mean you have 7 bars at 75°F? Or does it mean you have 5 bars at 73°F? In other words, are those minimums or maximums?

I don't get the question. The nice thing about the old table is that it isn't ambiguous. The transition for four to five bars is 50.5ºF and the transition from five to six bars is 74ºF. As I understand it, the temperatures are for when each bar segment lights up. Very simple, unlike the new temp bar graph.

Also, I really do believe we have to take Nissan at its word when they say, as they do above the new chart, that the number of bars for a given temperature varies depending on the remaining battery capacity.

The combination meter corrects a Li-ion battery temperature recognized by a Li-ion battery temperature signal, based on battery capacity recognized by a Li-ion battery gradual capacity loss signal. The combination meter then judges the number of segments to be lit.
NOTE: The number of lighting segments of the Li-ion battery temperature gauge depends on gradual loss of Li-ion battery capacity.

OK, so the translation from Japanese is a bit awkward, but they are clearly stating that they use some calculation based on both temperature and capacity in determining how many bars they will display.

Ray

I don't doubt that the new temp bar graph reflects some sort of reality, I just find it too confusing to be useful. If you can make sense of it, great.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I don't get the question. The nice thing about the old table is that it isn't ambiguous. The transition for four to five bars is 50.5ºF and the transition from five to six bars is 74ºF. As I understand it, the temperatures are for when each bar segment lights up. Very simple, unlike the new temp bar graph.

The graph given does NOT say that the temperatures are transitions, hence the ambiguity. They could also be the nominal temperatures (i.e. the center of the range). That leaves three possible meanings of the temperatures, of which you have chosen one and declared it truth. Again, this choice was not stated in the table.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I don't get the question. The nice thing about the old table is that it isn't ambiguous. The transition for four to five bars is 50.5ºF and the transition from five to six bars is 74ºF. As I understand it, the temperatures are for when each bar segment lights up. Very simple, unlike the new temp bar graph.

The graph given does NOT say that the temperatures are transitions, hence the ambiguity. They could also be the nominal temperatures (i.e. the center of the range). That leaves three possible meanings of the temperatures, of which you have chosen one and declared it truth. Again, this choice was not stated in the table.

My empirical experience with the two transitions I see routinely, as well as the fact that I don't see three or seven bars, suggest that the numbers in the table below are, in fact, transition temperatures. If you have data that suggest otherwise, that would be interesting.

Perhaps Phil has taken a look at it and has some measurements.

can someone post the full battery temp to gauge chart that shows at what point the temp segments are illuminated?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=5850&start=13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(The deterioration numbers bring up the interesting questions of how the deterioration is measured and why the temp bar display is adjusted for it.)