Testing Leaf's Acceleration

[TickTock]

Does this power ramp change if you "pop the clutch?" May be my imagination, but it seems like I get to maximum power faster if I start in N, hold the pedal, and then drop it into D (and yes, everyone is aware there is no clutch or gear to "drop" into ).

 

[Drivesolo]

Does this power ramp change if you "pop the clutch?" May be my imagination, but it seems like I get to maximum power faster if I start in N, hold the pedal, and then drop it into D (and yes, everyone is aware there is no clutch or gear to "drop" into ).

I've tried a neutral drops, brake stands and parking bake pulls. According to the 'ol butt-dyno nothing seems to make a difference. Ironically enough it seems just flooring the throttle from a dig is the best way to launch.

 

[DurkaDurka]

I'm fairly certain the motor is directly attached to the transmission (no torque converter) and the traction motor will not rotate unless it is in D/ECO. Also, I don't believe the motor will spin as long as your foot is on the brake no matter how far you push the accelerator.

I'd imagine if you could rev the motor in N, then move it to D, it would be a "neutral drop", but man that sounds bad. Don't think I'll try that.

 

[Smidge204]

I'd imagine if you could rev the motor in N, then move it to D, it would be a "neutral drop", but man that sounds bad. Don't think I'll try that.

You can't rev the motor in N - as you said, there is a direct connection between the motor and wheels with no torque converter or clutches.

However, it seems you CAN "Neutral Drop" the LEAF. That thread is worth reading through if you're interested in things like this - including the infamous LEAF J-Turn :lol:
=Smidge=

 

[RedLeader]

I have a design for a device that will allow adjustment or elimination of this ramp, so the driver can control when/how much of the ~80kW is applied. It's on my list of things to do as soon as there is enough time.

-Phil

I am very interested. We will have to talk when you have it ready for prime time.

 

[RedLeader]

I've attempted everything mentioned above to attempt a faster launch and if there is an advantage to any of the methods, I have not been able to percive it. I have to say the Nissan did a good job at making the car protect itself from absent minded behavior. However... Nissan also puts so much protection that it is difficult to explore the performance possiblities of it's electric drive system.

 

[DurkaDurka]

I'd imagine if you could rev the motor in N, then move it to D, it would be a "neutral drop", but man that sounds bad. Don't think I'll try that.

You can't rev the motor in N - as you said, there is a direct connection between the motor and wheels with no torque converter or clutches.

However, it seems you CAN "Neutral Drop" the LEAF. That thread is worth reading through if you're interested in things like this - including the infamous LEAF J-Turn :lol:
=Smidge=

So you can apply the accelerator/brake at the same time?! I need to try this...

 

[gbarry42]

You can try anything Mostly, the computers will ignore you. That's what these guys are talking about. They're not actually revving anything up, they're looking for a way to get the computer to skip the built-in torque ramp-up.

 

[fotajoye]

It's interesting that some are already talking about trying to get more performance out of the Leaf.

 

[Drivesolo]

It's interesting that some are already talking about trying to get more performance out of the Leaf; more power to you.
But, the car was not designed as a performance vehicle and unlike the older ICE cars, like the 240Z, you just can't drop a larger motor in the car, install a set of coil overs and burn rubber. You have many things working against you including the CAN network, the expensive density designed battery; all the design has been put into making the car a short range commuter. Yes, you can hack it and improve the torque curve; and, with 200 ft/lbs on tap, smoke the tires, etc.

If I may? The car has many performance limitations, including it's a FWD, has a weak differential and most of all a density battery not a power battery. If your joy is beating cars at the stop lights with an EV, better to pay the price and modify a light chassis, like an old rear drive Datsun, install a battery of A123 cells, a Warp 13 series DC motor and drive to the nearest 1/4 mile track.

Having said all this, it would be a kick to blow away a V8 as the light turns green; but, it's not by any means a practical idea.

So you think that no one should try to explore the performance limits of the Leaf? People have been racing riding lawnmowers for decades, there are whole motorsports series in North America and Europe devoted to that type of racing. Did the intended purpose of a lawn mower prevent some people from attempting to see how much speed they could get out of them. Do people have more of a passion and interest in their lawnmowers than their Leafs? Are you familiar where the racing cultures (where the somewhat misguided racer-boy image came from) of the Honda Civic or the CVCC originated from? The origins of it are similar to that of the Leafs, but the jury is still out on whether the Leaf can be more than just what it is currently. Did people think back in the 70's think the Civic was something capable of having the following and the performance applications that it has over the past 2 decades?

RedLeader has plans for his Leaf, he chooses to investigate what it's capable of even though he has MUCH faster and capable vehicles in his stable. There have been a few people on this forum that have done the same. AutoX's, drag racing, track sessions and associated discussions brings credibility to this community as a group of people that do not fit the the stereo-typical impression of an EV driver. If the general are people that have no interest in EVs for efficiency, CoO, environmental impact, or independence from oil, then maybe if there is something like performance possibilities that gets them interested in it. Whatever sparks the interest, it only helps to forward the EV movement. In some people's eyes, it buys respect and that is something that the Leaf is currently lacking. There are probably dozens of new cars that could beat the Leaf in all performance characteristics that matter all priced less than the MSRP (or even w/ the -$7500), but they all require a fossil fuel. EV racing is the future of motorsports and to get into it w/o having the means to buy a Tesla or some of the hand built, limited production, exotic EVs, maybe a Leaf might be the means for those that have an interest.

 

[RedLeader]

I'm becoming more aware that there are people on this forum that find topics dealing w/ automotive performance offensive. It's like talking about grilling a steak on a vegan forum. In the future for any thread that I start, I will attempt to warn the reader that it may contain content that some may find objectional and offensive. This is very odd for an automotive forum.

 

[fotajoye]

So

 

[DaveEV]

I'm sure there will be many mods available for the car; but, what's that saying about making a purse out of a sow's ear?

I do think you missed RedLeader's reference to racing lawn mowers. If it has wheels, people are going to figure out how to make it go faster.

Seems to me it applies here when you talk about performance, especially when you start stressing the $18,000 battery and drive line. Good luck on your ventures.

Even so called "performance" cars often break under stress. GT-R $20-30k transmission replacements come to mind, and reading any performance oriented forum will reveal many such tales on many vehicles. Comes with the territory.

Anywhoo... seems like there's just been a bit of a misunderstanding here.

 

[TRONZ]

There will come a day when performance auto magazines declare ICE / EV comparisons totally unfair. EV powertrains have too much of an advantage!

 

[Drivesolo]

So, you blame the messenger; too bad, you missed my point. Explore the Leaf all you like; and, I'm sure you will...in fact I encourage you to do just that.

My hobby is road racing, I have a '72 Datsun 240Z with a turbo that I race in NASA. My point is based on the Leaf's factory chassis, drive line, battery limitations, etc., the Leaf will need a lot of time, effort, and money to mod it into a road racer.

I'm sure there will be many mods available for the car; but, what's that saying about making a purse out of a sow's ear?

Seems to me it applies here when you talk about performance, especially when you start stressing the $18,000 battery and drive line. Good luck on your ventures.

If you are road race then you, RedLeader and I have a lot more in common that you may know. PM me, I'd like to be able to talk to you off-forum.

As for the battery, I've never complained, stressed or even really concerned much about it. You might be confusing me w/ someone else on this forum that has. I don't know what RedLeader's stance is but my guess is he's probably not concerned either. But I'll leave it to him to express any concerns he may have. But then again, aside from an autoX (which will only be possible in my area if DCQC becomes available close to the locations where the events are held here in the Puget Sound) I have no plans for my Leaf being anything more than a commuter.

As for the Leaf's overall package. There are stock classes in various motorsports, autocross more specifically requires on modifications to the vehicle at all for their stock classes; stock sized wheels and r-comps (or UHP tires if you intend to run in a street tire class) being the main difference. To my knowledge, no one on this forum has attempted to put their Leaf on r-comps other than RedLeader to even explore those options.

 

[Drivesolo]

@fotajoye

PM sent.

 

[aqn]

My hobby is road racing, I have a '72 Datsun 240Z with a turbo that I race in NASA. My point is based on the Leaf's factory chassis, drive line, battery limitations, etc., the Leaf will need a lot of time, effort, and money to mod it into a road racer.

I'm sure there will be many mods available for the car; but, what's that saying about making a purse out of a sow's ear?

"You cannot make a race horse out of a pig, but one can make it into a very fast pig." This applies to at least half of the field at any autocrosses. I've seen unlikely candidates such as Renault Alliance, Yugo (!), Datsun/Nissan Maxima, VW GTI VR6 , etc. fielded by hard-core regulars.

Also, personally, "racing" is not just about running faster; it's about the fun of running up to, but not beyond, limits. One can do this in the LEAF, on a lawn mower, in your 240Z, or in a Caterham.

Finally, racing is not just about beating another car/driver combo. It's also about not beating myself.

 

[RedLeader]

So, you blame the messenger; too bad, you missed my point. Explore the Leaf all you like; and, I'm sure you will...in fact I encourage you to do just that.

My hobby is road racing, I have a '72 Datsun 240Z with a turbo that I race in NASA. My point is based on the Leaf's factory chassis, drive line, battery limitations, etc., the Leaf will need a lot of time, effort, and money to mod it into a road racer.

I'm sure there will be many mods available for the car; but, what's that saying about making a purse out of a sow's ear?

Seems to me it applies here when you talk about performance, especially when you start stressing the $18,000 battery and drive line. Good luck on your ventures.

I do not have any concerns about the stressing the battery. Should I? Do you?

Does having a hobby in racing mean that your opinion should hold a higher level of credibility on this mater? If so, I would be in that group as well but I don't feel the need to mention anything about my hobbies or the cars I drive.

 

[fotajoye]

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[fotajoye]

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