The Battery Replacement Thread

[QueenBee]

It updated when I did it is all I can say. Could be that my battery was warmer or something like that - who knows? Unfortunately there's no such thing as "sources" for trying to figure out how this magical bar loss or BMS update happens. It's all just trial and error - try it yourself and see what happens if you want (I'm not going to now that I have a new battery.) :lol:

As to why the poster hasn't seen an update, that's hard to say. I'm not sure that the poster has clearly said what procedures he's followed, or followed any of the suggestions people have made here.

OK, so please don't state things as facts when they are just your opinion. You are happy to present your theories. I've never noticed HX update while not driving. I'm in a similar climate as the above poster right now and my HX updates regularly, though I'm driving the car, so I don't see why temperatures would be preventing HX from updating.

Not sure I've seen any valid suggestions presented to him.

 

[hillzofvalp]

I believe the issue has to do with averaging the bms Hx value over 16mph or power level, just like the car only averages the temperature display over 16mph. I don't think the CAN parameter that Turbo or whoever found which is reported in Leaf Spy is the actual raw Hx value from the BMS. If it was, it would be constantly flickering. It only seems to average and update above 16mph or above certain power draw.

In the case of the Temperature, I found that if you unplug the thermistor on the radiator, it will default to like -22F. After I connected a resistor to simulate 94F, I drove around.. it took 5 miles to get it to go up from -22F to 0F. I then unplugged the 12V, reconnected it, and the temperature displayed 94F immediately.

I guess if it was averaging raw Hx values or other BMS parameters those would reset as well when you unplugged the 12V battery, but that's not that case. Could be mileage intervals even. Something tells me though that the bms is constantly updating or oscillating small fractions of apercent, and those aren't reflected in leaf spy.

From an engineering standpoint it makes the most sense to only update it when it has averaged data when you're above certain current or power when you get a good reading on the pack impedance.. say 60 seconds above 60kW-70kW, which is actually less repeatable across drivers than you would initially think, which explains a different experience for everyone. In other words, if you baby the car 2-3 "bubbles" for a drive, it may be less likely to update

 

[EVseyonce]

I got my nissan leaf because gas was like 3.62/gal in my state, it was time for a new car, and I wanted something where I could pay my insurance, loan, etc, and not have to worry about other bills. That said, I have a 2012 nissan leaf, but I don't really understand all the metrics of electric information. I'm hoping someone can explain to me what the future of battery replacement for the nissan leaf will be, especially for my model. The 2016 is a "24 kw - 30 kw" battery. What does that mean for me? If the future is 30 kw -> higher, am I limited to the last 24 kw produced, which sounds to be the 2016? Or can my 2012 use a 2017 30 kw battery to get 200 mi range? is it just the speed of charge?

I bought my car because no oil changes = win, no gas = win, and I'm just a measly college student paying a 12k loan. Can you lamen the battery replacement stuff for me?

 

[arnis]

Nissan is pretty dumb company. They don't want more money from people who want 30kWh pack when
replacing their old 2011 original pack.

Most likely you will be stuck to 24kWh pack in the future. I would recommend not to replace battery on 2012
Leaf as it is early year model with bad regen and bad climate control system.
Have you lost any capacity bars?

 

[EVseyonce]

I'm in Washington State. I'm at 31,563 miles. Full 12 bars. I don't have leaf spy. I don't even understand what that is. My top bar probably gives me about 2.5 miles before disappearing... but its also winter. I'm just trying to understand what my best course of planned action will be. I'm a planner. I have about 39 months left on my loan. I have no noticeable capacity loss as of yet, so I think I'm fairing pretty well. (I basically only drive to and from work, maybe around the valley on a pretty day, and then to the club on weekends -- but they have a L2 free charging port in the city, and then the club is across the street, so its like perfect). $6,000 for a 30 kw battery with a 200 mi shelf life would make my 2012 a great investment, right? Everyone my age laughs at me and my car choice. When I go to the CHADEMO, it's always old guys and their old wives. They're always like shocked.

 

[Stanton]

I'm in Washington State. I'm at 31,563 miles. Full 12 bars.

Why are you even thinking/worrying about this? Drive your Leaf until it doesn't do what you need it to do anymore and then make another purchase decision. Hopefully by that time you won't be a "poor" college student; if you are, buy a "beater" (and you won't have another loan). You might want to update your profile info.

 

[Valdemar]

...Full 12 bars...

There are 2 kinds of "bars", which are you counting?

 

[EVseyonce]

Why are you even thinking/worrying about this? Drive your Leaf until it doesn't do what you need it to do anymore and then make another purchase decision.

I'm not "worrying"; I'm planning. Two differences. I'm merely asking what the 30+ kwh means in retrospect to standard 24 and if my vehicle can be upgraded with future battery models. I'm thinking in the long term. When I need to get the battery replaced. Why is that a bad thing? I value my money, and it's an investment to get a low cost 2011/2012 and retrofit it with a 2017 battery. I don't know what kwh standard for, but like, the concept of modifying older to make brand new makes sense to me. Like?

There are 2 kinds of "bars", which are you counting?

Capacity. I'm not that much of a ditz. Come on now.

 

[Valdemar]

There are 2 kinds of "bars", which are you counting?

Capacity. I'm not that much of a ditz. Come on now.

You'd be surprised to learn how many people with Leafs have no idea about capacity bars.

 

[WetEV]

I'm not "worrying"; I'm planning.

Then you should look at the battery life model, especially for Bellingham area.

http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss#Battery_Aging_Model

You have years to think and plan. Assuming you can live with 70%, which seems likely. If you can live with less, you have even more time.

 

[Stanton]

Why are you even thinking/worrying about this? Drive your Leaf until it doesn't do what you need it to do anymore and then make another purchase decision.

I'm not "worrying"; I'm planning. Two differences. I'm merely asking what the 30+ kwh means in retrospect to standard 24 and if my vehicle can be upgraded with future battery models. I'm thinking in the long term. When I need to get the battery replaced. Why is that a bad thing? I value my money, and it's an investment to get a low cost 2011/2012 and retrofit it with a 2017 battery. I don't know what kwh standard for, but like, the concept of modifying older to make brand new makes sense to me. Like?

I guess I should have been more specific: you will probably "run your car into the ground" before you need to think about buying a new battery pack in the PNW (lucky you). Everyone (including me) had dreams of putting the latest & greatest battery pack in our Leafs 10 years down the road, but it's become obvious that Nissan has other ideas.

 

[EVseyonce]

Then you should look at the battery life model, especially for Bellingham area. You have years to think and plan. Assuming you can live with 70%, which seems likely. If you can live with less, you have even more time.

Perhaps I need to rephrase this. Regardless of *shiny battery*, it would be nice to be able to have the 200 mile range in my 2012 for my 9k pre-tax/loan amount vs. the 39,000 asking price of the 2016 leaf. It would be nice to be able to drive to Everett and back and not have to worry about stopping to charge somewhere. That is the appeal of making my older car relevant, is figuring out range, which equals out to shelling out 6k for a new battery. If I have the funds, and I get range, and it's more convenient, why not?

I read people can add extended battery packs, but that modulation still seems new in it's infancy. And I read that the weight capacity virtually cancels each other out in potency. Perhaps batteries in general just need to be produced more efficiently and be lighter.

 

[racerkit]

Well, is the Battery Replacement Warranty less than 9 bars or 70% capacity? Assuming I don't have Leafspy app tools or any other tools.
9bar out of 12bars on dash reading is 75%, -- 8bar out of 12bars on dash reading is 66.6% (by division). So technically, at 9bar after some usage time can qualify for warranty, if battery capacity is 70%, even if it's not showing 8bars.

Would this be acceptable, unless Nissan scale the battery capacity reading to their advantage? (again, assuming I don't have any 3rd party reading tool). If I go in the Nissan dealer on the date of 5yr anniversary (and under 60Kmiles) and say I've been setting on 9bars for 6 months now, it should qualify for the less than 70% capacity warranty. Would Nissan tell me to go away?

 

[Stanton]

If I go in the Nissan dealer on the date of 5yr anniversary (and under 60Kmiles) and say I've been setting on 9bars for 6 months now, it should qualify for the less than 70% capacity warranty. Would Nissan tell me to go away?

Yes.

 

[Valdemar]

Perhaps I need to rephrase this. Regardless of *shiny battery*, it would be nice to be able to have the 200 mile range in my 2012 for my 9k pre-tax/loan amount vs. the 39,000 asking price of the 2016 leaf.

It may not seem so nice if you have a relatively minor accident and your insurance decides to total your car, and they pay you $3,000-$4,000 which is the market value of your car at that time. It is going to hurt if you've just forked out $9k on a a new pack.

 

[lonndoggie]

Like many others, I noticed AHr going up end of Jan. This was when I charged more aggressively both L2/QC to keep it as full as possible. My theory is that when you QC it balances the batteries better, which causes the AHr to go up. If so, it means that AHr calculation depends more on the min voltage rather than average, and perhaps the bars losses are based on average voltage...

Well whatever the case may be, I stopped doing the "keep it full as possible" tactic and seems like I've been able to lose in a steady pace.

I'm another guy trying to lose that 4th bar, in my case by mid-June, who tried to keep it topped-off for a while. Easy to do, as I have a short commute and free chargers at work. During about a 3 week stretch that I did this, I checked AHr frequently. It started at 44.50, and ended up at 44.69! Ever time I checked, it was either same as the previous, or went up. Depressing.

I ended the "topped-off" experiment in an extreme fashion, driving the car to LBW, then running the heater at 90 with the windows down, in the garage, until I got to turtle mode (which also got the battery temp to six bars). Charged it to 100% immediately. That was Saturday; Sunday morning I looked, it had dropped to 44.67. Today it's back up to 44.68. Ugh.

Also: My father in law, who got his Leaf about a week before I got mine, and spent his early days with it driving it like a sports car, charging to 100% always and as often as possible, got his new battery in September.

 

[DaveEV]

Today it's back up to 44.68. Ugh.

I think you've got a very good chance of dropping your 4th bar by June, especially if this warm weather keeps up. Even though the Ah readings may have crept up, high SOC will definitely accelerate capacity loss. I'm at 46.12 Ah - I will most likely be 3 months late.

I think that 80% GID count or Hx may be a better indicator of when bars go away. Unfortunately, very few people track those parameters.

Also: My father in law, who got his Leaf about a week before I got mine, and spent his early days with it driving it like a sports car, charging to 100% always and as often as possible, got his new battery in September.

Yeah, that's the most frustrating thing to me. My efforts to protect the battery pack worked, but to my disadvantage in the end, which feels like getting punished for doing the right thing.

 

[lonndoggie]

I think you've got a very good chance of dropping your 4th bar by June, especially if this warm weather keeps up. Even though the Ah readings may have crept up, high SOC will definitely accelerate capacity loss. I'm at 46.12 Ah - I will most likely be 3 months late.

Yeah, that's the most frustrating thing to me. My efforts to protect the battery pack worked, but to my disadvantage in the end, which feels like getting punished for doing the right thing.

As David Bowie would have said, "Drive like a demon from station to station". That's part of what I'm doing as well, lately: I'll punch it and coast, on and off as much as possible, to keep the battery going from discharge to recharge. However, it seems to prove the adage, that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger:

I think that 80% GID count or Hx may be a better indicator of when bars go away. Unfortunately, very few people track those parameters.

Not sure what the 80% GID count is all about, but I just looked at my trip log. Hx has been ratcheting up and down as well. it was at 47.03 on 2/12, today it's at 47.20. Ugh, again.

 

[DaveEV]

The LBC's data fluctuates a lot, don't stress about it too much.

Sounds like you're doing all the right things to work the pack. Toss in some QCs, too.

My driveline clunk is slowly getting worse. At least I should get a new motor/transaxle under warranty. I should take it in soon for that and complain about the range again, but I really don't want the car to sit in the dealer on the outside chance my Ahr reading starts drolle like a rock.

 

[lonndoggie]

Sounds like you're doing all the right things to work the pack. Toss in some QCs, too.

My driveline clunk is slowly getting worse. At least I should get a new motor/transaxle under warranty. I should take it in soon for that and complain about the range again, but I really don't want the car to sit in the dealer on the outside chance my Ahr reading starts drolle like a rock.

I've had exactly one QC--that at the dealer. The QC's I see are in systems I'm not part of, or at the dealer (Mossy O'side). And there, I asked if I could get a QC once; the service guy said ask for the card from the sales guys. I went to park at the charger, and someone was just plugging in. Oh well.

I haven't been on here much; sorry to hear you've got drive train problems (and a battery that's not fading fast enough). Has anyone else had that problem? The clunk, I mean (of course). For me, the Leaf has really lived up to its "almost no maintenance" promise. Hey, while it's at the dealer, you can ask them to leave it running on the dynamometer every night, and QC it every morning!