The Crisis at Nissan
- Thread starter ChargedUp
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
evnow
Well-known member
FUD. I don't know what people at Automoile magazne are smoking.ChargedUp said:
Looks like they don't understand the Nissan ordering process at all. Looks like a "hit" article on Nissan.
Interesting that you wait until the very last paragraph to say that the LEAF is a good thing. Most people would have quit reading about the fifth paragraph in. Are you for or against 100% electric vehicles?
Also interesting that you chose the FordFocus forum to post an article about the Nissan LEAF. Ford doesn't have any electric vehicles on the road so far. By the way, I don't consider any hybrid an electric car. Nissan at least has a few thousand 100% electric cars on the road in the USA.
Also interesting that you chose the FordFocus forum to post an article about the Nissan LEAF. Ford doesn't have any electric vehicles on the road so far. By the way, I don't consider any hybrid an electric car. Nissan at least has a few thousand 100% electric cars on the road in the USA.
Stoaty
Well-known member
A bunch of BS for your first post here.
evnow
Well-known member
What are you, Rush Limbaugh ? Tsunami that killed so many and destroyed much of ancillary plants is a "trump card" ?
This is worse than yellow journalism.
Randy
Well-known member
I don't consider the 2011 Leaf US sales projections to be a revelation...Knowing that 20,000 reservations were taken from a nationwide audience, and some people in the rollout states would back out (causing their orphans to be immediately sold), I was already assuming a conversion rate of approximately 50% from the $99 refundable deposits (no skin in the game) to $3x,000 purchases or leases. Not to mention that Nissan Japan is production-constrained for the first year or two.
And, yes, a lot of things have gone wrong in the rollout. Some should have been easily fixed, and some issues were more difficult.
Several issues in that post are flat out wrong, so even the critics don't have it correct....
At the end of the day, I'm driving around in my Leaf with an EV grin that I purchased at a substantial MRSP discount. There are a few things I'd change with the V2 Leaf, but I like the car and would buy it again...
Hopefully Nissan learned a few things along the way with the rollout and can use them in the future. It remains to be seen how Ford will handle their rollout and dealer pricing / ordering...
And, yes, a lot of things have gone wrong in the rollout. Some should have been easily fixed, and some issues were more difficult.
Several issues in that post are flat out wrong, so even the critics don't have it correct....
At the end of the day, I'm driving around in my Leaf with an EV grin that I purchased at a substantial MRSP discount. There are a few things I'd change with the V2 Leaf, but I like the car and would buy it again...
Hopefully Nissan learned a few things along the way with the rollout and can use them in the future. It remains to be seen how Ford will handle their rollout and dealer pricing / ordering...
Herm
Well-known member
I joined the forum and posted this reply:
I think you are grinding that axe way too much, its worn down to nub by now.
Supply problems are understandable but they should improve now that production has stabilized and a steady amount of cars will come into the country every month.. IIRC something like 1700 cars a month?.. total plant production in Japan is 4000 but they have to supply several countries.
Nissan has made three major mistakes..
1. early release for publicity reasons, they had no cars to actually sell and created lots of angst.. but it did serve its purpose of killing several competitors such as Coda.. probably the main reason Ford is not gun-ho on the Focus BEV, they cant match the $32k price and are not willing to pour too much money down the drain. Nissan is serious about BEVs, they are building 3 plants and 3 battery factories across 3 continents.. Ford just subcontracts out to a third party for everything. GM on the other hand actually built Volts for a month or two, stored them, and then released them for sale in a flood. GM is smart.
2. a reservation system.. this always creates trouble.. mass produced cars are built in batches, usually grouped by color so that not too much money is not wasted flushing paint of one color for another out of the automated guns in the paint booths.. they are also held up until a "parts kit" is available for each particular car.. its very complex and usually automated. Customers get very furious when their neighbor across the street gets a car before they do, and yet they reserved earlier.. sometimes months earlier. GM tried this with the new Camaro and it was also a PR disaster.
3. direct internet ordering.. this is also another disaster born out of desire to be nice to the customer but it also backfired. It stabs their dealership network in the back, their only customers.. then they had to outsource (probably from the Philippines) customer support personnel to answer the inevitable questions that could not be answered.. usually dealers insulate the manufacturers with the customer but they could not in this case, they were bypassed. Lots of people (probably you too, did you try to order a Leaf?) are very angry with Nissan and will probably never buy any of their cars again.
I think you are grinding that axe way too much, its worn down to nub by now.
Supply problems are understandable but they should improve now that production has stabilized and a steady amount of cars will come into the country every month.. IIRC something like 1700 cars a month?.. total plant production in Japan is 4000 but they have to supply several countries.
Nissan has made three major mistakes..
1. early release for publicity reasons, they had no cars to actually sell and created lots of angst.. but it did serve its purpose of killing several competitors such as Coda.. probably the main reason Ford is not gun-ho on the Focus BEV, they cant match the $32k price and are not willing to pour too much money down the drain. Nissan is serious about BEVs, they are building 3 plants and 3 battery factories across 3 continents.. Ford just subcontracts out to a third party for everything. GM on the other hand actually built Volts for a month or two, stored them, and then released them for sale in a flood. GM is smart.
2. a reservation system.. this always creates trouble.. mass produced cars are built in batches, usually grouped by color so that not too much money is not wasted flushing paint of one color for another out of the automated guns in the paint booths.. they are also held up until a "parts kit" is available for each particular car.. its very complex and usually automated. Customers get very furious when their neighbor across the street gets a car before they do, and yet they reserved earlier.. sometimes months earlier. GM tried this with the new Camaro and it was also a PR disaster.
3. direct internet ordering.. this is also another disaster born out of desire to be nice to the customer but it also backfired. It stabs their dealership network in the back, their only customers.. then they had to outsource (probably from the Philippines) customer support personnel to answer the inevitable questions that could not be answered.. usually dealers insulate the manufacturers with the customer but they could not in this case, they were bypassed. Lots of people (probably you too, did you try to order a Leaf?) are very angry with Nissan and will probably never buy any of their cars again.
awallis
Well-known member
Right--this "article" is just crap. I'm not here to defend Nissan, but the author's use of sarcasm here (I'm sure nissan knows we don't have 440 in our garages) shows their lack of research and insider knowledge. Also, how many people drive 100 miles a day? Most people are topping off their cars in 2-4 hours and don't really need 6k charging even if it would be a nice plus.
Moreover, the conversion rate of 50% on a 30k purchase is extremely high. Extremely. If I were Nissan, I might be doing exactly what they are doing: not worrying too much about the customer experience pre-ownership (these customers are true believers and have bought in), but concentrating on the product chain and QC in the wake of an earthquake, knowing the real game is having a good story to tell about the cars when the bleeding edge customers wane. I think they are worried about 2013, not 2011.
Have you filled out the survey? Nissan is studying this issue every month or so and that aggregate data is what they are using, not anecdotal evidence here on this site, though I am sure they read the site and worry about it to some extent. I'm guessing their surveys are fairly positive, but with a big negative patch in the old, grumpy male demographic.
99% of what I hear about the Leaf comes from this site. 99% or more report loving the car. Why would Nissan invest 2-300k in perfecting the rollout customer service experience when this issue is going to disappear in 2 years anyway as the cars become a commodity rather than a unique item? And I would say 2-300k is lowballing what it would take because you would need at least one highly paid person to figure out the kinks, plus a few more people to constantly manage this, and they would need to be paid well because it requires clout to call up senior managers and ask them what the hell is going on. Nevermind that some of these senior managers have ever had to worry about any of this for any car they have ever worked on because this is not a standardized industry model...
Nissan probably thinks it's doing just enough and they are providing me with way more contact than any other car company I've had, but then I've never bought a Bugatti.
Time will tell Whether Nissan should have invested more in the purchase and customer service arm of this venture...
Anyway--I'm not defending the lack of info from Nissan, the missed orders--I mean, jeez, this is all on a database, right?--or the charger, or the tires or the feel of the steering. I'm just saying that there are reasons why all this is happening, even if we think those reasons are without merit.
thankyouOB
Well-known member
Herm said:
The call center for customer service is in Indiana.
HIOJim
Well-known member
The CS reps I've spoken to repeatedly say they're located in Ohio. Not that it matters.thankyouOB said:
thankyouOB
Well-known member
HIOJim said:
looks like Indiana from CA.
but it aint asia. and they are pure American - born speakers.
where could you possibly get the idea that it is the Phillipines?
I think they're desperately trying to stir the pot. The motivation may be that the more off-the-wall the claims are the more traffic gets generated. What do you expect from a source that says the acceleration of a Prius is more than adequate and the much faster acceleration of a Volt is "disappointing".
Not worth wasting the time to respond IMO.
Not worth wasting the time to respond IMO.
Herm
Well-known member
big organizations that need CS (and Nissan does not need that since only dealers are their customers) usually have two CS centers, sometimes 3.. one is located in the US in a traditional CS bull pen and a second call center for the overflow calls, usually located outside the country. The last few years there has been a trend to outsource both call centers outside the country. You can get better, more educated people outside the country.
Its always company policy not to tell you where the call center is, for safety.. but many many callers always ask.. and they will NEVER answer India
BTW, I never ask where they are, its none of my business and it makes me uncomfortable forcing someone to lie. High end CS people are paid a salary plus a per-minute rate for each call.. low end CS people are paid per call, sometimes with no salary.. its to their interest to get you off the phone as quick as possible.. they usually will not lie since every call is recorded but will not answer any questions you did not ask. Really low end CS people work for telecoms and cell phone companies.. god knows how they are paid and they will lie to your face.
Its always company policy not to tell you where the call center is, for safety.. but many many callers always ask.. and they will NEVER answer India
BTW, I never ask where they are, its none of my business and it makes me uncomfortable forcing someone to lie. High end CS people are paid a salary plus a per-minute rate for each call.. low end CS people are paid per call, sometimes with no salary.. its to their interest to get you off the phone as quick as possible.. they usually will not lie since every call is recorded but will not answer any questions you did not ask. Really low end CS people work for telecoms and cell phone companies.. god knows how they are paid and they will lie to your face.
Herm
Well-known member
thankyouOB said:
You cant tell by the accent, they are trained to have a neutral midwestern accent, even in India. Several names of CS people have been posted, quick google searches get a lot of Philippines hits in every case, in the first page, and its a common outsourced CS location. As I mentioned before, there can be many levels of CS.
thankyouOB
Well-known member
Herm said:
The underlined part is just silly; training is not achieving.
I have spoken with the CS people dozens of times from before I got the car and now after.
Herm
Well-known member
"The underlined part is just silly; training is not achieving."
Accent Neutralization Training is a standard part of the industry, its very effective and widespread.. yes you have been fooled
http://esl.about.com/od/speakingenglish/a/accent_reduce.htm
http://www.drsadhananayak.com/professional-voice-coaching.htm
http://www.neutralaccent.com/neutralaccent.php
Accent Neutralization Training is a standard part of the industry, its very effective and widespread.. yes you have been fooled
http://esl.about.com/od/speakingenglish/a/accent_reduce.htm
http://www.drsadhananayak.com/professional-voice-coaching.htm
http://www.neutralaccent.com/neutralaccent.php
leafmealone
Well-known member
Hardly a "Crisis at Nissan". A few bumps in the road yes! Ahhh the beauty of the internet. You can sit down and peck out whatever fantasy your mind can dream up.
In my opinion the crisis is at Ford. They (along with other manufactures) are caught with their pants down and Carlos Ghosn is the guy yanking em'
While the Focus EV looks great and is touting some pretty nice features (like a 6.6 charger) it's all a dream as far as I'm concerned. You can't buy one. You can't test drive one. You can't order one. You can't even get a price on one "We are going to make it as affordable as we can, but clearly it will be more expensive than a regular gas car. So that will limit its appeal at least initially.” – Mark Fields, Ford’s president of the Americas says. Ford is running in reactive mode when it comes to a viable EV.
Having been a Ford Think Lessee in 2002 I know first hand about how serious Ford was about EV's. They purchased Think Norway, stuck their name and imported 300-400 cars in a attempt to comply with California's ZEV mandate. When the mandate was rescinded, they did an about face, took the cars back and sent Think into bankruptcy declaring all kinds of bogus reasons like "There just isn't enough interest in the vehicle". (As Seth Meyers would say: REALLY? - my dealer alone had a waiting list of over 500) and that's with no advertising on the Think. So you see I may doubt Fords dedication to any EV.
a littlle nostalgia....
In my opinion the crisis is at Ford. They (along with other manufactures) are caught with their pants down and Carlos Ghosn is the guy yanking em'
While the Focus EV looks great and is touting some pretty nice features (like a 6.6 charger) it's all a dream as far as I'm concerned. You can't buy one. You can't test drive one. You can't order one. You can't even get a price on one "We are going to make it as affordable as we can, but clearly it will be more expensive than a regular gas car. So that will limit its appeal at least initially.” – Mark Fields, Ford’s president of the Americas says. Ford is running in reactive mode when it comes to a viable EV.
Having been a Ford Think Lessee in 2002 I know first hand about how serious Ford was about EV's. They purchased Think Norway, stuck their name and imported 300-400 cars in a attempt to comply with California's ZEV mandate. When the mandate was rescinded, they did an about face, took the cars back and sent Think into bankruptcy declaring all kinds of bogus reasons like "There just isn't enough interest in the vehicle". (As Seth Meyers would say: REALLY? - my dealer alone had a waiting list of over 500) and that's with no advertising on the Think. So you see I may doubt Fords dedication to any EV.
a littlle nostalgia....
thankyouOB
Well-known member
Herm said:"The underlined part is just silly; training is not achieving."
Accent Neutralization Training is a standard part of the industry, its very effective and widespread.. yes you have been fooled
http://esl.about.com/od/speakingenglish/a/accent_reduce.htm
http://www.drsadhananayak.com/professional-voice-coaching.htm
http://www.neutralaccent.com/neutralaccent.php
Neutral "like the BBC news presenters"?
that is what the last article says they are trying to achieve.
That is easily discernible as NOT a native-born American speaker.
Keep trying, Herm.
and next time you are on an 800 CS call, engage the caller in a conversation that is not about the equipment or your need. Dont be embarrassed or feel it is being intrusive, you are two people connecting.
You will learn something about who is helping you and where they are from.
kmp647
Well-known member
I think anyone would agree that Ford is in a "wait and see" mode.
they have no cars no production, they are witing to see what happens and its gonna be a good while before anyone rolls off a Ford lot in a Focus EV.
this may be a rough new product roll-out but at least they did it and are doing it.
they have no cars no production, they are witing to see what happens and its gonna be a good while before anyone rolls off a Ford lot in a Focus EV.
this may be a rough new product roll-out but at least they did it and are doing it.
Similar threads
