The LEAF's exceedingly slow rollout

[Herm]

The way that the dollar has tanked against the yen, I doubt Nissan is making a profit selling Leafs in the US.. the few that they import is just to maintain momentum and good will.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I am dumbfounded by those who want a 12 and wish to wait and pay more when they have an option to get one now. Unless you need the cold weather package why??? :roll:

Yes, cold weather package. Not everyone lives in sunny San Diego surrounded by charge stations. I am willing to pay more for the 2012 with the cold weather package because this is snow country and one of my intended uses will stretch the range of the Leaf, especially in the out years when the battery pack capacity diminishes. Also, public charge stations in this rural area won't exist unless I pay to install them myself, something I am seriously considering.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...Many on this site have questioned Nissan's decisions, but it is what it is. I think Nissan would be doing themselves a favor to get an enthusiastic early adopter such as yourself a LEAF ASAP, provided you can live without dealer support for a while. But they're not going to do that. Getting an orphan might not seem an ideal approach, but I don't think you would regret it.

Not having dealer support is a serious concern. Barring problems with the car or unplanned software updates from Nissan, my understanding is that an annual check of the battery pack is required for the warranty (is this correct?). That's less of a problem for me since I am in a Tier 3 state and there should be dealers handling the Leaf in a year or so. But not anywhere near me: I would have to tow my Leaf 300 miles over two mountain passes to Denver for service. I'm willing to do that because I'm committed, as you know, but how many others can say that?

So, I am seriously considering a 2012 orphan or, perhaps, ordering via my parents' Oregon address, and then towing the Leaf a thousand miles home. It isn't easy as some make it out to be for those of us in the boondocks to go electric! :mrgreen:

 

[cwerdna]

Maybe I should ask the question, Why should I have to go though that hassle just because I'm "geographically challenged"? What purpose does it serve, so far as Nissan is concerned?

I totally agree about the remarks on dealer support, esp. for warranty work. How would you like having a problem and having a Nissan dealer that doesn't have the right equipment, proper training, parts in stock and hasn't ever worked on a Leaf?

Also, since you're in a colder area, they probably want to reduce the initial reports of range loss due to cold weather, esp. when the '11 models don't come standard w/the battery heater, insulation, etc. They seemed to want to roll it out first in markets where there would be lots of early adopters who also might be more tolerant and understanding of EV limitations/issues that also were warmer areas.

FWIW, the Altima Hybrid (dead for MY2012) was only available in CARB states. That likely saved Nissan the hassle and expense of having to ensure sales and service training + parts were in place for the other ~40 some states where the NAH wasn't sold. I'd be it also reduced the inventory risk for them and prevented them from having the stock spread too thin besides potentially limiting how many cars they could sell. They were paying Toyota some amount of money on each NAH [likely for power split device, definitely the inverter (looked under loose cover, had a Toyota part #) and likely the HV battery.

 

[abasile]

Regarding dealer support, my comments were written with 'tps' in mind. He lives in Philly, which is not all that far from Maryland where 2012 LEAFs will become available within months. So he could still get dealer support when absolutely necessary.

On the other hand, 'dgpcolorado' is truly out in the sticks (beautiful area, by the way). He would be taking a bit of a risk buying a LEAF with no certified dealers anywhere near him. That is a real concern.

 

[LEAFfan]

Furthermore, if you try to qualify for the EV Project with a 2011 orphan, you can apply for a $700 refund from Ecotality for the QC option after you buy an orphan, because it's an option for MY2011.

Since the OP is outside the EV Project area, there's no way he can qualify. Their home installations end Sept. 30.

 

[tps]

Since the OP is outside the EV Project area, there's no way he can qualify.

And I already have Nissan/Panasonic unit modified for 240V which I will use when I get my LEAF. I've already used it with the Hertz rental LEAF. My local Nissan dealer had no problem ordering and selling me a LEAF charging kit. Maybe Nissan would allow them to order the rest of the car as spare parts and put it together.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...On the other hand, 'dgpcolorado' is truly out in the sticks (beautiful area, by the way). He would be taking a bit of a risk buying a LEAF with no certified dealers anywhere near him. That is a real concern.

Yes, I'm trying to pound a square peg in a round hole by making a Leaf work in my rural mountain area. But Denver should have Leaf dealers up and running by this time next year and it is only 300 miles if something should go wrong; I've towed cars there and back with my Jeep Cherokee before (yes, a waste of gas but I hope it doesn't happen often). Anyway, I'm taking the plunge and am in the process of getting quotes in Oregon/southern Washington. So far, so good.

 

[KeiJidosha]

Not everyone lives in sunny San Diego surrounded by charge stations.

Nobody in San Diego is surrounded by charge stations.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Nobody in San Diego is surrounded by charge stations.

Hmm. I suppose it is relative. I count eleven J1772 charge station locations in San Diego County:
Escondido
Oceanside
Torrey Pines
Poway
Mission Bay
I-15 @ Balboa Ave
Kearny Mesa (2 locations)
Balboa Park
El Cajon
National City

I'm envious!
[Full disclosure: I lived and worked in SD for many years so the area is very familiar to me.]

 

[abasile]

...On the other hand, 'dgpcolorado' is truly out in the sticks (beautiful area, by the way). He would be taking a bit of a risk buying a LEAF with no certified dealers anywhere near him. That is a real concern.

Yes, I'm trying to pound a square peg in a round hole by making a Leaf work in my rural mountain area. But Denver should have Leaf dealers up and running by this time next year and it is only 300 miles if something should go wrong; I've towed cars there and back with my Jeep Cherokee before (yes, a waste of gas but I hope it doesn't happen often). Anyway, I'm taking the plunge and am in the process of getting quotes in Oregon/southern Washington. So far, so good.

"Only" 300 miles! That's still pretty far! But where there's a will, there is a way... We do look forward to hearing of your LEAF adventures. Based on my experience in the San Bernardino Mountains, I think the LEAF will work out quite nicely for you, provided you can find ways to stretch the range as you well know.

Also, that's a beautiful photo. Last October, we drove the Million Dollar Highway and stayed overnight in Ouray, CO. The aspens were a little past their autumn peak, but still gorgeous, set amid clear skies and snow on some of the higher peaks of the San Juans. I will definitely be taking my family back to that area.

 

[tps]

If you wait to order a MY2012, you will pay $1900 more than the MY2011 SL at MSRP, even after you remove the additional cost of the cold weather package and the QC port (which are standard in 2012) out of the equation.
... snip ...
Now that the Leaf sales is spread out to both Tier1 and Tier2, dealers have a smaller allocation of Leafs they can sell, so they'll be much less likely to discount below MSRP like Tier1 dealers used to be able to do. So buying a 2011 orphan at MSRP is a much better proposition than waiting for and paying for a 2012 Leaf order.

However, add to the MY 2011 price the $1200 - $1400 to truck it from CA to PA, and it makes the MY 2011 price a lot closer to a MY 2012 bought locally. Even the MSRP-$1K dealers charge MSRP for orphans, so that's an extra $1K. Also factor in the extra instant depriciation because of buying last year's model at full MSRP. Not so sure the case for a MY 2011 for me is so clear cut.

If I buy an orphan:
1. I will end up paying close to MY 2012 price for a MY 2011, when all is done.
2. I will be "rolling the dice" that I won't have any problems or need roadside assistance for 6-9 months or so.

The guys a Sansone Rt 1 Automall in NJ ask if I wanted to buy my LEAF from them when I stopped in to show them the Hertz rental LEAF (this was the first LEAF they'd seen). They are 58 miles from my house and in Tier 3 (I'm in Tier 4), so I might be able to save a couple months wait by getting an (early) 2012 orphan from them. By the time they are selling LEAFs at Sansone, I expect my order will already be in through my local dealer (Peruzzi Nissan).

 

[dgpcolorado]

...And if you don't need the cold weather package, you don't have to eat the cost of paying for the cold weather package if you buy a 2011 orphan. Otherwise you'll have to pay for the cold weather package in a 2012 Leaf even if you don't need it.

This is certainly a valid concern for those in warm weather states. The supply of 2011 models is limited, so grab one now.

Now that the Leaf sales is spread out to both Tier1 and Tier2, dealers have a smaller allocation of Leafs they can sell, so they'll be much less likely to discount below MSRP like Tier1 dealers used to be able to do. So buying a 2011 orphan at MSRP is a much better proposition than waiting for and paying for a 2012 Leaf order.

My experience suggests that dealers aren't pulling back on offering deals on MY 2012 because of reduced allocations. When shopping northern Oregon and southern Washington I got quotes of $1000 to $1401 (~4%) below MSRP for an SV ($35,200 list). Some of them did mention the limited allocations, and the Nissan website had some dealers blocked because their monthly allocation was used up. But Tier 1 dealers are still willing to deal, so far as I can tell. I don't know about Tier 2.

My concern, being in a Tier 3 state, is that for the first six months or so the dealers in my state won't discount while pent up demand dissipates. I don't know that will happen, I'm just guessing. Is that the experience of those in Tier 2 states?

Regardless, I've waited long enough and will just combine picking up a Leaf with a visit to family in Oregon. It's not as if dealers near me will be handling the Leaf for many years to come anyway.

 

[SteveInSeattle]

You can't supply the whole world from one Japanese factory, and a factory that also makes the Juke. Until Tennessee and England come on line next year the roll out remains slow. Plus, there are probably other supply issues that prevent even that one factory from going faster. The rate of production can't be helped, how they distribute them is another issue and no matter how they did it someone would be annoyed. So, if you are annoyed you have to realize that from Nissan's perspective it's either you or someone else--some who wants a leaf wont be getting one as fast as they would like.

 

[tps]

from Nissan's perspective it's either you or someone else--some who wants a leaf wont be getting one as fast as they would like.

But at least maybe they shouldn't annoy those of us who signed up last year... You know how much people screamed about Nissan's out-of-order deliveries in the spring. Well, those of us outside Tier 1 are even more out-of-order!

 

[mitch672]

from Nissan's perspective it's either you or someone else--some who wants a leaf wont be getting one as fast as they would like.

But at least maybe they shouldn't annoy those of us who signed up last year... You know how much people screamed about Nissan's out-of-order deliveries in the spring. Well, those of us outside Tier 1 are even more out-of-order!

Yes, I know. Checkout my "signature" How are we early adopters again? Please tell me I at least got to drive the Leaf about a month ago at the "drive a Leaf" event at Suffolk Downs in East Boston, managed to get it up to 40mph, it was a very short, controlled course. I also test drove the PHEV Prius last Saturday as well, these are the 2 competing for my "EV" bucks

 

[tps]

I at least got to drive the Leaf about a month ago at the "drive a Leaf" event at Suffolk Downs in East Boston, managed to get it up to 40mph, it was a very short, controlled course.

Besides driving the short course the Drive Electric events at DC and Philly, I've driven the Hertz NYC LEAF over 320 miles in 2 different rental sessions. My mileage alone, at the time I turned it back in the second time, was almost 1/6 of the total mileage on the odometer! It might not be too hard from you to slide down to NYC, if you want some extended driving time...

 

[Herm]

You can't supply the whole world from one Japanese factory, and a factory that also makes the Juke. Until Tennessee and England come on line next year the roll out remains slow. Plus, there are probably other supply issues that prevent even that one factory from going faster.

So far the Oppama factory has made 12k Leafs, since December.. definitely not a fast rollout. We dont know if its a supply constraint or just Nissan being prudent with new tech, but the Smyrna and Sutterland plants will benefit from the Oppama experience. My guess is that the batteries are the bottleneck, so far they have made 324MWh worth of lithium-ion batteries, it would take a large nuclear plant to fast charge all of them at the same time.

 

[eHelmholtz]

However, add to the MY 2011 price the $1200 - $1400 to truck it from CA to PA, and it makes the MY 2011 price a lot closer to a MY 2012 bought locally. Even the MSRP-$1K dealers charge MSRP for orphans, so that's an extra $1K. Also factor in the extra instant depriciation because of buying last year's model at full MSRP. Not so sure the case for a MY 2011 for me is so clear cut.

If I buy an orphan:
1. I will end up paying close to MY 2012 price for a MY 2011, when all is done.
2. I will be "rolling the dice" that I won't have any problems or need roadside assistance for 6-9 months or so.

tps, you're one of the most consistent member on here and your enthusiasm is clear. I wanted to let you know that I ordered from a MSRP-$1K dealer who wouldn't give me this price on an orphan but I found another dealer who agreed to sell me an orphan for MSRP-$1k. Here's my story: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5364" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; So, it can be done if you are persistent.

 

[tps]

tps, you're one of the most consistent member on here and your enthusiasm is clear.

Maybe it's because I have an advantage that not too many future LEAF owners have had, I've driven the Hertz rental LEAF over 320 miles, plenty long enough to fall in love with the LEAF driving experience. Folks here at MNL and knowing what is in store when I finally get my own LEAF is what keeps me going.

Thanks for your advice and encouragement, I'll check it out. One way or another, it will happen and I'll be driving my own LEAF.