The unofficial Leaf dropout thread

[surfingslovak]

ok, bad memory, maybe it was not Tick Tock, but someone got a pack replaced last year

Gonewild in Chandler, AZ.

another batch of returns. bummer. i know its a tough call to make and STILL wondering if Nissan is going to get the hint here.

Doubtful.

Good 'ole CarMax. I tried to un-LEAF myself today, but not quite. Going back Sunday for round two.

Yes, thank you for that recommendation, Tony! Several comparable options were available, thankfully, and this seemed like the best one. Friends traded in a 2011 Leaf for a 2012, but I didn't want to do that.

Perhaps an EV which leaves you stranded on the highway is preferrable to one which loses capacity if you feel the manufacturer is standing behind their product?

Yes. When I leased the ActiveE, I wanted to get involved in another EV community. BMW seemed genuinely committed, and I didn't really know what I was signing up for. Sound familiar? I've been impressed with BMW's follow-trough on the issues I and other field trialists have experienced. It has not been perfect by any means, but I'm hopeful that the production vehicles will be a viable alternative to some of us, and will turn more people onto EVs. I'm not quite ready to turn my back on Nissan yet, but it's quite likely that I will scale down my participation in the Leaf community.

I am also sorry to hear that your Leaf is gone. How many miles did you have on it ?

Thank you for your concern! The Leaf had 15,363 miles and I experienced about 10% range loss. The friends I mentioned above, had 9% loss measured by a Nissan dealer, which took nearly a whole day to determine. They ended up trading in the car. We live in a temperate climate, and rarely see temperatures above 90F.

Team EV in its happier days

 

[mkjayakumar]

I am very much interested in a Volt, but I have a lease on the Leaf with another 15 months left.

How do I get around that with minimal damage ?

 

[TomT]

It's interesting how fairly recent events have dampened the enthusiasm for the Leaf for many... I know that I am no longer nearly as enthusiastic a supporter as I was even six months ago...

I am very much interested in a Volt, but I have a lease on the Leaf with another 15 months left. How do I get around that with minimal damage ?

 

[surfingslovak]

I am very much interested in a Volt, but I have a lease on the Leaf with another 15 months left. How do I get around that with minimal damage ?

Several owners called Nissan CS or NMAC, and inquired about lease termination. They were given quotes somewhere between $500 and $1K. You might want to give it a shot.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1067&start=400#p220207" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's interesting how fairly recent events have dampened the enthusiasm for the Leaf for many... I know that I am no longer nearly as enthusiastic a supporter as I was even six months ago...

True enough. I recently helped couple of people into a lease, but I do my best to set their expectations properly, readily point at competing products, and urge them to do their research.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I am very much interested in a Volt, but I have a lease on the Leaf with another 15 months left. How do I get around that with minimal damage ?

Several owners called Nissan CS or NMAC, and inquired about lease termination. They were given quotes somewhere between $500 and $1K. You might want to give it a shot.

You can get the lease payoff from the NMAC website. I was about $3500 upside down from $22k trade in, but it's gone now.

 

[Valdemar]

I remain cautiously optimistic, my battery is likely degraded but subjectively it is performing almost as good as new after 14 months and 20k miles. The most important part is that I have more than enough range for my 50-60 mile daily commute even at 80% charge. I'm hoping that by the time remaining capacity becomes an issue for me there will be many more public charging options available to help me deal with the reduced range. There is a plan to have charging stations to be installed at work next year, that will surely help given it actually happens and I still work there then. If I dump the car now I'm looking at least 7k loss considering sales taxes paid (I bought) and depreciation which is probably close to 40% of battery replacement cost if I ever have to do it down the road, so keeping and investing this amount seems like a smarter choice than taking a hit now. Given battery degradation remains at worse linear and my commute doesn't change much I think the Leaf will work quite well for us over next 3-4 years, and after that time I will reassess the situation and make a decision knowing how much I saved in gas money. I'll consider the Leaf "experiment" to be a successful one if I break even after traction battery replacement compared to gas and maintanence cost I would have incurred on a 21 mpg car it replaced, which doesn't seem to be that far fetched with the 17k annual miles I drive now.

 

[surfingslovak]

If I dump the car now I'm looking at least 7k loss considering sales taxes paid (I bought) and depreciation which is probably close to 40% of battery replacement cost if I ever have to do it down the road, so keeping and investing this amount seems like a smarter choice than taking a hit now.

I had friends with 9% range loss. They were worried about not being able to make it through the day this winter, and ended up trading in their leased car for another (much shorter) lease. It sounds like they came out ahead, and are happy about the transaction. Consider calling a few dealers in your area to see if you could trade in the vehicle for a 2012 MY at favorable terms.

 

[Valdemar]

Consider calling a few dealers in your area to see if you could trade in the vehicle at favorable terms.

With 2012s selling with a 7k discount off MSRP I just don't see me getting more than 19k for it. And what car would I replace it with if I were to stay fully electric? I can't lease, so it would be another Leaf as FFE is too expensive. I would probably end up paying about 25k for a new Leaf after tax and incentives including, given the most optimistic scenario. Is 6k enough to justify the delay in replacing battery by 1 year? I'm not sure.

 

[surfingslovak]

With 2012s selling with a 7k discount off MSRP I just don't see me getting more than 19k for it. And what car would I replace it with if I were to stay fully electric? I can't lease, so it would be another Leaf as FFE is too expensive. I would probably end up paying about 25k for a new Leaf after tax and incentives including, given the most optimistic scenario. Is 6k enough to justify the delay in replacing battery by 1 year? I'm not sure.

Sounds like your situation is a bit unique. To be clear, my friends received 21K for their Leaf less than a month ago, and feel that they came out ahead given their particular scenario. I was offered $27K for my Leaf last November by a GM dealer. It's worth getting actual numbers instead of projections, but again, your case could be somewhat unique.

 

[Valdemar]

...To be clear, my friends received 21K for their Leaf less than a month ago, and feel that they came out ahead given their particular scenario. I was offered $27K for my Leaf last November by a GM dealer. It's worth getting actual numbers instead of projections, but again, your case could be somewhat unique.

Do you know how many miles they had on it at the time they traded it in? A lot changed since last November, for one, half of the topics on this forum weren't about premature battery capacity loss back then.

 

[surfingslovak]

Do you know how many miles they had on it at the time they traded it in?

About 19K miles. They were way over their 12K annual mileage allowance on their old lease.

A lot changed since last November, for one, half of the topics on this forum weren't about premature battery capacity loss back then.

Of course, but I did not expect or project a $27K buyout offer back then, since new Leafs could be had for about $24K after rebates last year also. Sometimes it's better to do something, and get actual numbers than to contemplate.

 

[Valdemar]

I guess I should shop around, there is also the prorated amount I have to pay back to CARB I need to consider, so I may not be able to claim both fed and state rebates to the full extent on the new vehicle.

 

[surfingslovak]

I guess I should shop around, there is also the prorated amount I have to pay back to CARB I need to consider, so I may not be able to claim both fed and state rebates to the full extent on the new vehicle.

It doesn't hurt to get some numbers, that's the whole point, even if everyone's situation is a bit different. I'm still hoping that Nissan will finally release some information about the replacement cost of the battery, which owners would need to be able to make sensible decisions. I don't want to sound too hopeful given what transpired this summer, but it's possible that we will see the leveling off we have been promised. Given the performance of Steve's high-mileage Leaf up in Washington state, I feel a bit uneasy about the cycling loss of the battery. I could be wrong, but I would not expect that to level off significantly.

 

[DaveEV]

I remain cautiously optimistic, my battery is likely degraded but subjectively it is performing almost as good as new after 14 months and 20k miles. The most important part is that I have more than enough range for my 50-60 mile daily commute even at 80% charge.

How are you managing that? You must be getting around 5 mi/kWh? I drove 54 mi yesterday mostly at 65 mph on a 100% charge and got home with 4.1 mi/kWh and 2 bars remaining (GOM said 13 mi). Definitely would have been below LBW if I had only charged to 80%.

 

[Valdemar]

It doesn't hurt to get some numbers, that's the whole point, even if everyone's situation is a bit different

On the other hand my battery seems to be holding up ok (knocking on wood). Who knows if the next one will be as robust, I think it is clear now that the rate at which batteries degrade seem to vary fairly widely between owners even with similar ambient/driving conditions. So an apparent "good deal" may turn out a big headache down the road. I may better wait for the 2013 model, at least the 7kW on-board charger will help to increase the utility of the car and depending on how much extra it is going to cost offset the $2/hr public charging infrastructure rate which seem to be becoming the norm.

How are you managing that? You must be getting around 5 mi/kWh? I drove 54 mi yesterday mostly at 65 mph on a 100% charge and got home with 4.1 mi/kWh and 2 bars remaining (GOM said 13 mi). Definitely would have been below LBW if I had only charged to 80%.

I'm at 4.6 m/kWh for all time according to the dashboard (never reset). From home to work is a bit under 50 miles round-trip of which 40 are on freeway @60-65mph, on days I drive just that from 80% I arrive home with about 20 miles and 2-3 bars left on the GOM (no ac/heat, although ac doesn't seem to make a lot of difference). There is a slight total elevation loss on the way to work, and naturally a corresponding gain on the way back. Overall some ups and downs, but pretty flat with the exception of one fairly steep 1 mile climb just before the freeway and a more or less equivalent albeit less steep descent following on the freeway, so they cancel each other for the most parts in both directions.

 

[surfingslovak]

On the other hand my battery seems to be holding up ok (knocking on wood).

Good for you!

I may better wait for the 2013 model, at least the 7kW on-board charger will help to increase the utility of the car and depending on how much extra it is going to cost offset the $2/hr public charging infrastructure rate which seem to be becoming the norm.

Sounds like a plan.

 

[DaveEV]

How are you managing that? You must be getting around 5 mi/kWh? I drove 54 mi yesterday mostly at 65 mph on a 100% charge and got home with 4.1 mi/kWh and 2 bars remaining (GOM said 13 mi). Definitely would have been below LBW if I had only charged to 80%.

I'm at 4.6 m/kWh for all time according to the dashboard (never reset). From home to work is a bit under 50 miles round-trip of which 40 are on freeway @60-65mph, on days I drive just that from 80% I arrive home with about 20 miles and 2-3 bars left on the GOM (no ac/heat, although ac doesn't seem to make a lot of difference).

Either your battery is holding up much better than mine or my battery gauge is extremely pessimistic. My last 50 mi trip on 80% at 4.4-4.5 mi/kWh got me 47 mi to LBW, at 51 mi GOM had 5 mi, ended with 55 mi with 4 mi on the GOM (no VLBW). Disappointing.

 

[Valdemar]

How are you managing that? You must be getting around 5 mi/kWh? I drove 54 mi yesterday mostly at 65 mph on a 100% charge and got home with 4.1 mi/kWh and 2 bars remaining (GOM said 13 mi). Definitely would have been below LBW if I had only charged to 80%.

I'm at 4.6 m/kWh for all time according to the dashboard (never reset). From home to work is a bit under 50 miles round-trip of which 40 are on freeway @60-65mph, on days I drive just that from 80% I arrive home with about 20 miles and 2-3 bars left on the GOM (no ac/heat, although ac doesn't seem to make a lot of difference).

Either your battery is holding up much better than mine or my battery gauge is extremely pessimistic. My last 50 mi trip on 80% at 4.4-4.5 mi/kWh got me 47 mi to LBW, at 51 mi GOM had 5 mi, ended with 55 mi with 4 mi on the GOM (no VLBW). Disappointing.

Mine was manufactured in July 2011, should it already have the GOM f/w update from the factory which made the readings more pessimistic? If not it may explain why my numbers are so much better. Independent of that, I don't see the range being affected all that much. It feels like 5% loss at max, but of course no instrumented tests were ever done so who knows if the real numbers are much worse with my driving habits improved.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i also think the LEAF still has a large niche if the 2013s come in with a price drop. the lack of Yen exchange penalty, much larger volume capacity and what should be a plentiful supply of LEAFs to choose from all adds up to an attractive buyers market.

I think the LEAF is leading the way towards a shift away from purchasing cars where leasing is the primary way to go. Expect a huge Certified pre - owned market coming up in 2-3 years when people are on their 2nd lease.

i know the people here who have gone on to other vehicles from the LEAF did so after a lot of soul searching. it is not an easy thing to let go of something that did so much to change one's perception of personal transportation so much but at the same time; the LEAF really only has an effective range of 50 miles because that is where a lot of people will be in 3-5 years. The average driver does less than 40 so that leaves a big big market.

either way; despite the LEAF still being the best option for many including me, I have to think that Nissan could have been in a much better position right now if they had changed a few things about how they handled the AZ battery issues, the battery purchase issues, etc. hopefully this focus group will shed so light on what their ideology was (if they had one) and what their near term plans are

 

[cwerdna]

Done. Full pop, plus $200 for "super-duper white". $51,200.

Wrap came off the LEAF in about 20 minutes of pulling.

Think I'll go squeal the tires!!! Only 62 Rav4's sold in Sept, and 47 in Oct, so I'm about number 110 in the whole world.

BTW, forgot to ask... IIRC, I thought you were working on installing a CHAdeMO charger at home. Have you decided to abandon that given that you no longer have and won't have a car that can even use it?