TSLA corporate outlook

[GRA]

I suppose Focus, C-Max and Fusion, maybe the Volt, and a few others.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

True on those other cars.

My point was that regardless reason, usable range on those Tesla’s is less, and now not too much better than many Leaf owners of similar age, and most Bolt owners. ( as a percent of initial range)

No one really cares why it’s reduced, it’s just less.

 

[Nubo]

Except that a fair number of owners don't feel that the "range left on the table" is acceptable, which is why there's a lawsuit. After all, anyone who is concerned about minimizing degradation and/or maximizing safety is already able to limit the max. voltage by only charging to a lower % (and limiting discharge to a higher %). I don't think the company limiting max. capacity to increase longevity is a bad idea overall, provided the range is considered adequate by the customer, but Tesla sold the cars with 'X' range and then with minimal explanation reduced it to 'X' minus something. If they'd been more transparent about the reason there'd likely have been less controversy, but that would probably open them up to a different lawsuit over safety.

I think this mostly comes down to Tesla not doing adequate development testing in a wide variety of environments, but instead pushing products out quickly with the idea that they'll fix problems as they appear. That may be the norm for software, but shouldn't be for expensive durable goods where lives rather than data may be at stake.

Ah, I was just answering in general; I didn't realize there was a controversy from them changing the parameters after the fact. That is one downside of OTA updates I suppose. If Nissan releases a questionable or unpopular update all I have to do is stay clear of the dealership. Is there any way for Tesla owners to "opt out" of updates?

 

[Stoaty]

It is interesting to see how the early Tesla’s are catching up with the rate of degradation.

Not necessarily. We don't know what percent of vehicles are affected. Reportedly the problem began with the 16.1.1 software. Take my 2013 Tesla Model S85 which now has 24.4 software and 91,000 miles. Yesterday I charged to 90% and rated range was 224 miles. Two years ago when I bought my Tesla I got 250 miles on 100% charge. So I get about 25 miles of range for each 10% of charge, which hasn't changed in 2 years. Have I lost a few miles off the top? Don't know, but for practical purposes it doesn't matter and I have about a 5% loss from new (265 miles EPA on full charge). When supercharging I would not charge to 100% anyway. Of note, I have only supercharged about 6 times. Don't know the history of the car when I bought it at 64,000 miles re: how fully it was charged or how often it was supercharged. At least one person who was complaining had done a lot of supercharging. In spite of what Musk has said, we know that charging to 100% is not good for the battery and that lower average SOC is the best care of the pack. I suspect that the people who are having loss have "abused" their batteries, albeit at the recommendation of Musk over the years. For optimal battery life researcher Jeff Dahn (who works with Tesla on battery chemistry) suggested that charging to 70% was best for the Tesla. I charge to 50% during the week and usually to 80% on weekends. I may do a range charge in a few weeks to see how much I have lost from 250 miles. If so, I will share the results.

 

[lorenfb]

Another view on OTA updates, i.e. the BMS;

https://youtu.be/0wcJK9-BM8I

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Another view on OTA updates, i.e. the BMS;

https://youtu.be/0wcJK9-BM8I

With what little I know about this lawsuit (only scanned the last several posts), seems like a strong case. Buying something and then it is deliberately made worse by an OTA update is going to annoy people, of course. This is obviously tesla's response to battery issues because it's easier and cheaper to do this than partake in a very expensive recall.

The future of tesla continues to look bleak. Short of parceling out their brand and/or selling themselves to a competitor (e.g. somebody in China), it's difficult to see them still around as a legitimate car company for years to come.

 

[jlv]

Another view on OTA updates, i.e. the BMS;

Just listen to the first minute of this and walk away laughing.

 

[GRA]

San Jose Mercury News:

To boost sagging solar business, Tesla will let customers rent panel systems
In California, solar-panel rentals will start at $65 a month

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08...r-business-by-letting-you-rent-panel-systems/

The Solar City buyout looks like an even worse decision now than it did at the time, so hopefully this will juice things up. Some more details: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1124625_tesla-offers-new-solar-rental-program

 

[EVDRIVER]

Another view on OTA updates, i.e. the BMS;

With what little I know about this lawsuit (only scanned the last several posts), seems like a strong case. Buying something and then it is deliberately made worse by an OTA update is going to annoy people, of course. This is obviously tesla's response to battery issues because it's easier and cheaper to do this than partake in a very expensive recall.

The future of tesla continues to look bleak. Short of parceling out their brand and/or selling themselves to a competitor (e.g. somebody in China), it's difficult to see them still around as a legitimate car company for years to come.

If you think it's bleak because of this then you should short the stock.

 

[WetEV]

If you think it's bleak because of this then you should short the stock.

Shorting a stock isn't free. Stock loan fee, margin costs and such...

If Tesla survives for another decade, and the price bounces around like it has in the past, you could very likely lose money on the short, even if Tesla stock went to zero.

 

[Evoforce]

You Tesla detractors are hilarious. :lol: Even with this situation, My Model S is worlds better than my Nissan Leafs. But hey, keep trying to grasp at anything to boost your negativity toward Tesla, the best electric vehicles currently on the market.

 

[GRA]

You Tesla detractors are hilarious. :lol: Even with this situation, My Model S is worlds better than my Nissan Leafs. But hey, keep trying to grasp at anything to boost your negativity toward Tesla, the best electric vehicles currently on the market.

I don't think there's much if any contention that Teslas are generally the best BEVs on the market currently, the question is whether or not Tesla as a company can survive, especially as the competition increases rapidly over the next couple of years. Having the best product is rarely enough by itself.

[Added] IEVS:

Tesla Sued By Walmart For Solar Panel-Related Fires & Other Issues

https://insideevs.com/news/366187/walmart-sue-tesla-fire/


Apparently they've got Tesla panels installed at 240 stores, and have had fires related to them at 7. The article contends Walmart may well cancel their order for Tesla Semis as well.


Also IEVS:

Tesla Catches Fire In China, Automaker Blames Repair Shop

https://insideevs.com/news/366082/video-tesla-fire-china-repair-shop/


It was a Tesla-certified repair shop, but Tesla says they mishandled it.

 

[palmermd]

[Added] IEVS:

Tesla Sued By Walmart For Solar Panel-Related Fires & Other Issues

https://insideevs.com/news/366187/walmart-sue-tesla-fire/


Apparently they've got Tesla panels installed at 240 stores, and have had fires related to them at 7. The article contends Walmart may well cancel their order for Tesla Semis as well.

Well, if I'm not mistaken they are not Tesla panels. Solar City was installing panels from multiple vendors before Tesla bought them and started manufacturing their own panels. But the article I read showed some very bad solar maintenance, like leaving junction boxes open to the weather and wires not routed properly. It does seem that Solar City was growing too fast, and they did not have a well trained staff maintaining these panels, and Tesla is responsible for fixing this after they purchased Solar City. It is not good news, but it is also something that they can fix with their other customers even if they can't find a way to fix their relationship with WalMart. I'm betting that they come to an agreement with WalMart for both the solar and the future vehicle sales.

 

[goldbrick]

That could all be true but the 'general public' often doesn't know or care as much about the facts as they probably should. Ie, image matters a lot and people can be biased for no good reason. That's one reason companies care so much about their image and reputation in the marketplace and why a CEO (or company) who seems arrogant and smarter than everyone can piss a lot of people off. And folks who have a choice usually will pick a product from a company that they feel good about, for better or worse. For now, Tesla is the cool choice for the early adopters and techno-geeks and self-styled cool kids. For Joe Sixpack in Toledo, not so much.

 

[cwerdna]

That could all be true but the 'general public' often doesn't know or care as much about the facts as they probably should. Ie, image matters a lot and people can be biased for no good reason. That's one reason companies care so much about their image and reputation in the marketplace and why a CEO (or company) who seems arrogant and smarter than everyone can piss a lot of people off. And folks who have a choice usually will pick a product from a company that they feel good about, for better or worse. For now, Tesla is the cool choice for the early adopters and techno-geeks and self-styled cool kids. For Joe Sixpack in Toledo, not so much.

Indeed on all of the above. I work in Silicon Valley and my company is partially a tech company. We have tons of Teslas and it seems like we have some fanboys amongst us.

At the same time, Elon is very polarizing. When Elon tweeted that you had to work 80 to 100 hours/week to "change the world" (https://www.inc.com/business-insider/elon-musk-says-you-need-to-work-80-hours-a-week-to-save-the-world.html), there was some REALLY negative reaction from some folks within my company.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Another view on OTA updates, i.e. the BMS;

With what little I know about this lawsuit (only scanned the last several posts), seems like a strong case. Buying something and then it is deliberately made worse by an OTA update is going to annoy people, of course. This is obviously tesla's response to battery issues because it's easier and cheaper to do this than partake in a very expensive recall.

The future of tesla continues to look bleak. Short of parceling out their brand and/or selling themselves to a competitor (e.g. somebody in China), it's difficult to see them still around as a legitimate car company for years to come.

If you think it's bleak because of this then you should short the stock.

I already did, via puts, then the stock went down as expected, and I still lost out.

This is an extremely dangerous stock to trade because it is a constant battle between those who harness reason and math against those who are driven by pedagogue and religion. In this constant fight I am okay predicting the long term resolution, but short term (6 months, one year), it's anybody's guess.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

You Tesla detractors are hilarious. :lol: Even with this situation, My Model S is worlds better than my Nissan Leafs. But hey, keep trying to grasp at anything to boost your negativity toward Tesla, the best electric vehicles currently on the market.

This thread is not about your car. It's about the company.

 

[Nubo]

...The future of tesla continues to look bleak. Short of parceling out their brand and/or selling themselves to a competitor (e.g. somebody in China), it's difficult to see them still around as a legitimate car company for years to come.

The brand, infrastructure and IP is formidable. If there's any sign of floundering, expect deep pockets to move in and install a board capable of running a vehicle manufacturing business at a profit. This is not Delorean Motor Company.

 

[Evoforce]

You Tesla detractors are hilarious. :lol: Even with this situation, My Model S is worlds better than my Nissan Leafs. But hey, keep trying to grasp at anything to boost your negativity toward Tesla, the best electric vehicles currently on the market.

This thread is not about your car. It's about the company.

Sure it is. What is missed is that the product is superior. That goes a long way to receiving the public investment in their stock.

You mentioned the skimming of the TMC thread and some may miss the larger picture of this lawsuit that may eventually help all people with any vehicles that get over the air software changes.

We need to support any/all of the companies that are serious about manufacturing EV's but these companies may also need to be prompted by legal once in a while to not mistreat their consumers and to define where the lines are to be drawn.

This is disruptive technology and many things need refining and redefining. Hoping/wanting any of them to fail is just cutting our own nose off no matter what brand is preferred. It might well be that without Tesla many of the manufacturers might have never started working on producing BEV's and others may have just quit producing BEV's.

 

[EVDRIVER]

That could all be true but the 'general public' often doesn't know or care as much about the facts as they probably should. Ie, image matters a lot and people can be biased for no good reason. That's one reason companies care so much about their image and reputation in the marketplace and why a CEO (or company) who seems arrogant and smarter than everyone can piss a lot of people off. And folks who have a choice usually will pick a product from a company that they feel good about, for better or worse. For now, Tesla is the cool choice for the early adopters and techno-geeks and self-styled cool kids. For Joe Sixpack in Toledo, not so much.

Indeed on all of the above. I work in Silicon Valley and my company is partially a tech company. We have tons of Teslas and it seems like we have some fanboys amongst us.

At the same time, Elon is very polarizing. When Elon tweeted that you had to work 80 to 100 hours/week to "change the world" (https://www.inc.com/business-insider/elon-musk-says-you-need-to-work-80-hours-a-week-to-save-the-world.html), there was some REALLY negative reaction from some folks within my company.

Yes Millennials don't generally like to work much at all and everyone lovers long hours. There are still yet no EV's on the market that compete head to head with Tesla. None produced or announced. All the so called "Tesla Killers" ended up being duds. What is doing very well is Tesla FUD and stock manipulators as well as experts on the Tesla products that have never driven one. Not to mention auto journalists that give bad reviews on AP while having AP turned off during testing claiming it does not work. The nonsense and ignorance is surreal.