PaulScott said:
Nubo said:
barsad22 said:
... I think many conservatives are turned off by the tax credits and government incentives for renewables and EVs because they think meddling with the free market is bad in any context...
All the more ironic given that the entire complex of subsidies upon which our car culture is based.
- interstate highway system, cost of its construction, use of eminent domain to seize properties.
- subsidies to oil companies
- $Trillions spent on oil wars
- financial and health costs of ecological disasters and ongoing pollution, destruction of fisheries, etc, etc...
It boggles the mind. But we don't see it because it's just the way things are.
This is exactly the argument I make. I think it's important to keep making it as often and as loudly as we can. It's the crux of the problem. When I bring up these external costs of oil, they either deny the truth of it, or they change the subject.
The arguments against EVs are very similar to the anti-hybrid drivel/misinformation that us Prius drivers have been hearing for ages (false claims of environmental costs (e.g. CNW garbage that still refuses to die about Hummer being greener than a Prius), "not worth it", danger to emergency responders, that hybrids deliver minimal mileage improvements, etc.). There are still people who think that non-plugin hybrids need to be plugged in.
Unfortunately, because an EV has range limits, limited infrastructure and slow charging speeds vs. filling up a gas tank, now you've got extra things against you. I was at a BBQ w/some friends and acquaintances recently and the subject of the Leaf and pure EVs came up. One of them stated (don't remember which) something along the lines of "it'd be scary to have an EV... because of the limited range." The word scary was used.
Keep in mind, this is amongst males in their late 30s in the tech industry w/most of us living/working in/around Silicon Valley. One of them I went to high school with in San Jose but he lives in Seattle now and was back in the Bay Area visiting. Can you imagine what the thoughts in other parts of the US amongst others w/different demographics?
Here's some examples of myths and refutations we hear re: hybrids:
http://prius.wikia.com/wiki/Common_Prius_Myths" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://prius.wikia.com/wiki/Environmental" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://prius.wikia.com/wiki/Lifespan/Operating_costs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Besides China having a growing middle class, w/more able to afford cars, there's the other country in the same situation, also w/over a billion people, India.
I've tried arguing about our addiction to oil before at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7410253#post7410253" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and some other posts afterward. You get an idea of some people's reaction.
I've posted about the insane # of monstrosity class SUV sales before at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6735" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and what I observe at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=205267#p205267" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Then look at the hybrid and plug-in take rate at http://www.hybridcars.com/news/august-2012-dashboard-51090.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
In comparison GM alone last month in the US sold >14K monstrosity class (aka full-sized) SUVs (http://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/gmcom/investor/2012/GM_US_Deliveries_August_2012.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
.
Just today, as usual, I saw an insane # of monstrosity class (some of them extended length beasts like Escalade ESVs, Suburbans, Yukon XL, etc.) being driven solo or w/minimal cargo and passengers. Gas at $4/gal doesn't seem to faze them. Today, I didn't see any Hummer H2s, but on many days, I see at least 1-2. :roll:
I posted at http://priuschat.com/threads/drivers-behave-as-if-gas-is-cheap.113898/page-6#post-1627076" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; about one of the horrible gas wasting habits I've observed at http://priuschat.com/threads/drivers-behave-as-if-gas-is-cheap.113898/page-6#post-1627076" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, besides many others I've seen.
I think the bottom line is that the issues that the 3 posters I quoted brought up, most Americans don't care about or don't care about enough to do anything real about. This is assuming they even realize the connection and are willing to to accept there is one. It's only when there's some easily visible crisis (e.g. shortages, rationing, long lines, extremely high gas prices) or "crisis" ($4/gal gas, in the past, isn't having much effect in CA now), will they do something.