Warning from HOA for trickle charging

[goldie]

Hi all,

Just leased a 2014 Nissan Leaf with QC last Wednesday and got a good deal on it.

Everything has been great until today. I am renting in a condo building with underground parking in Pasadena, CA and there is an electrical outlet right in front of my parking spot. The parking area is not attached to any of the units, you take the elevator up and then go to the individual units. I have been trickle charging here and there. I wasn't planning on using the trickle charge much other than if I really need to since my gym parking lot has 4 level2 chargers that are free to use.

Tonight, someone knocked on my door and said he's from the HOA. He was all worked up and told me I can't use the outlet to charge my car because the building pays for the electricity. He was pretty nasty about it and told me to remove it right away, which I did. Also found a nasty note from him on my car telling me to stop using the outlets immediately. He said my landlord will get a letter too and there will be fines in the future if it happens again.

I have seen another neighbor charging her electric bike before using the same outlet and she does it once every 1-2 weeks and assumed it wouldn't be a good deal.

Based on what I read, there are legislation and such in CA that make HOA boards allow the installations of chargers. But in this case, I just want to use the outlet and don't even minding paying for it, although that can get out of hand if they ask me to install a separate meter and blah blah blah.

Anyone has any ideas or suggestions on what I can do? I am not too hopeful at this point because it might take a lot to get them to okay the use of the outlet based on the guy's reaction tonight.

The good thing is that I might be in really good shape in 2 months because I might have to go to the gym a lot to charge :lol:

 

[cwerdna]

Give them an estimate along w/a worst case as to how many kWh you will use in a given period. Ask them to give you their rate and/or an estimate as to how much that'd cost. Offer to pay that/a reasonable amount around/above it.

Besides the gym, you can use http://www.plugshare.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to find reliable free/cheap stations around you.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Offer to pay exactly twice the actual cost for electricity. Give them a spec sheet with the car's total battery capacity, and give them a clear rundown of the math, using your car's charge rate on the EVSE "trickle charge" cable. If you make it clear you are honestly willing to pay double the cost, it will be harder for them to accuse you of anything other than giving them extra money.

 

[DaveInAvl]

It'll be interesting to see if this guy turns out to have a position of authority in the HOA or if he's just an ordinary HOA member trying to bully you out of doing something he doesn't like. From the intensity of his initial contact with you I'd suspect the latter...

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

^ Yeah probably a busybody. HOA/condo boards and management companies usually are required to conduct business with official notices, not going around knocking on doors.

 

[abasile]

If you were the owner of the condo, then installing a charging station would probably make sense for long-term use since BEVs are likely the future. As per state law, to overcome a recalcitrant HOA (here's one example), the owner would have to hire a licensed contractor for installation, maintain $1 million in liability insurance (umbrella policies are a good idea anyway), and pay for the electricity which would necessitate a meter.

As a renter, I agree it's probably not worth the trouble unless your landlord is really nice and is willing to install a charging dock for you. Your best bet is probably to humbly work with the HOA and consider offering to meter your electricity use with a simple device like a Kill-a-Watt. You should already be carrying tenant insurance (we require that our tenants do this). You could inform the landlord and HOA that you are willing to acquire $1 million in liability coverage (cost might only be $300/year). I know this seems silly, but you want to do whatever you can to put skeptical folks at ease.

 

[thankyouOB]

i wonder what they do if you wash your car with community water?
(drought aside)

 

[mkjayakumar]

I was plugging into one of the outlets in my office multi-level parking lot, several hours every day for over an year, always dreading the tap on the shoulder. I even taped my charger chord with blue tape to camouflage with the blue wall background, so that it is not obvious from a distance. Was always worried that some co-employee with neighborhood-watch mentality, complaining to the folks in charge of the facility. I was imagining the worst - theft of office property, blah, blah.. With a commute of 36 miles one way, all highway, my wife even suggested that I ditch Leaf and drive an ICE. But how could I? As you all know thats blasphemy.

Fast forward one year later they installed two Chargepoint stations and it is free for employees. As I was plugging into the Chargepoint station the first day, the building manager walks by and is all apologetic that it took longer than expected to get that installed, and he was genuinely sorry that I had to go through the trouble of plugging in a remote corner of the topfloor in the parking lot to charge everyday. Apparently he knew all along . We had a long nice chat.

 

[tcherniaev]

I was plugging into one of the outlets in my office multi-level parking lot, several hours every day for over an year, always dreading the tap on the shoulder. I even taped my charger chord with blue tape to camouflage with the blue wall background, so that it is not obvious from a distance. Was always worried that some co-employee with neighborhood-watch mentality, complaining to the folks in charge of the facility. I was imagining the worst - theft of office property, blah, blah.. With a commute of 36 miles one way, all highway, my wife even suggested that I ditch Leaf and drive an ICE. But how could I? As you all know thats blasphemy.

Fast forward one year later they installed two Chargepoint stations and it is free for employees. As I was plugging into the Chargepoint station the first day, the building manager walks by and is all apologetic that it took longer than expected to get that installed, and he was genuinely sorry that I had to go through the trouble of plugging in a remote corner of the topfloor in the parking lot to charge everyday. Apparently he knew all along . We had a long nice chat.

Sadly, my experience has been totally opposite of yours, more in line with what original OP described. I am amazed at how much negativity there has been directed towards me since I purchased my LEAF back in 2011. And this is in the state that has very serious air quality issues every winter. On one side they post signs on the freeway asking motorists to limit driving on bad air quality days, and on the other side they kick me every time they get a chance because I drive an electric car.

 

[goldie]

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like an uphill battle that I don't have the time to fight.

I definitely feel like the guy was power-tripping a little when he told me that I had to unplug my car immediately. Makes me feel like I got bullied.

Wish I can do something about the situation but the laws just aren't there to support it right now. On top of that, they are going to tell me to stop charging my car and waste paper sending out letters to my landlord and I. :roll:

My wife still drive an ICEV, so this might force us to use that more than I had planned because I can't be going to the gym or the mall to charge all the time.

 

[HeyHey]

The hospital I work at just installed two trickle charge outlets for us to use free of charge. They even hung a sign and painted the parking spot that limits those spaces to EVs only. It's only a trickle charge, but that is plenty for me. Plugging in for 8-10 hours a day is more than enough to get me to and from work, and I essentially drive for free. I think they understood just how little electricity was used and it is a good way to be forward thinking. It also serves as a good employee satisfaction tool. They will more than make up for the electricity costs if one person decides not to leave and take another job because of the access to the charger.

 

[Nubo]

Although I sympathize, truth be told we don't know the nature of the circuit you were plugging into. It could be a 15A circuit serving several outlets in the structure lights and/or other devices. Likely the design expectations did not anticipate a regular heavy sustained load on the receptacles. Problems could arise if another driver starts charging also, and/or some maintenance activity plugs in a compressor or other heavy tool, etc...

Charging in these type of shared structures is an issue that will eventually need to be addressed and will be over time as EVs become prevalent. As they stand, the infrastructure may not be designed to support multiple EV owners and of course an apartment or association always has to be concerned about "what happens if/when everybody does this". And the cost issue is legitimate, even though their idea of it is probably off by an order of magnitude.

In any situation where you do not own the circuits or pay the electricity in question, it's better to ask first.

 

[abasile]

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like an uphill battle that I don't have the time to fight.

You might not be in a position to move at this time, but the availability of at least a 120 V outlet for regular EV charging would be something to look for when finding a new place. Pasadena, CA has many back "guest houses" that get rented out, as well as smaller multi-family properties that can be quite pleasant. It seems to me that an owner who is willing to accommodate EV charging is more likely to be someone you'd want to deal with anyway. I think that extends to employers as well.

 

[goldie]

Called the building management company and they have heard all about the situation already as of 9:15am and this happened at 7pm last night. Sounds like the guy who knocked last night may have an ax to grind.

They told me I need to document my electricity use and then put in a proposal with the HOA board to see if they will let me pay a fee to use the electricity. It definitely will be a long process according to the building management company. So thanks but no thanks.

Can't wait to move out of this building.

 

[WetEV]

Called the building management company and they have heard all about the situation already as of 9:15am and this happened at 7pm last night. Sounds like the guy who knocked last night may have an ax to grind.

They told me I need to document my electricity use and then put in a proposal with the HOA board to see if they will let me pay a fee to use the electricity. It definitely will be a long process according to the building management company. So thanks but no thanks.

Can't wait to move out of this building.

For the next person in the complex to buy an EV, turn in a reasonable estimate of electricity use first to the management company.

For example, I drive 1000 mile per month. I average 4.0 miles per kWh. Average kWh per month for L1 charging is about 1000miles/(4miles per kWh)/(70% L1 efficiency) = 360kWh per month. At my cost per kW hour of 10.5cents per kWh, that would cost $37.50 per month.

Use _your_ numbers and local electric costs, suggest it is fair to pay somewhat more for the convenience factor, and point out that you don't want to deal with hostility or hassle. Even if you don't go to the HOA, educate the management company. The next person will have an easier path.

 

[mwalsh]

Called the building management company and they have heard all about the situation already as of 9:15am and this happened at 7pm last night. Sounds like the guy who knocked last night may have an ax to grind.

They told me I need to document my electricity use and then put in a proposal with the HOA board to see if they will let me pay a fee to use the electricity. It definitely will be a long process according to the building management company. So thanks but no thanks.

Can't wait to move out of this building.

I'd still refuse to comply without a written notice. One that states which section of the CC&R's (or the Rules and Regs, if separate) are being violated, and with the supposedly applicable section quoted verbatim. 'Cause I'm pretty sure you'll find that use of "common amenities" are part of what the homeowner's assessment is for.

 

[2k1Toaster]

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like an uphill battle that I don't have the time to fight.

I definitely feel like the guy was power-tripping a little when he told me that I had to unplug my car immediately. Makes me feel like I got bullied.

Wish I can do something about the situation but the laws just aren't there to support it right now. On top of that, they are going to tell me to stop charging my car and waste paper sending out letters to my landlord and I. :roll:

My wife still drive an ICEV, so this might force us to use that more than I had planned because I can't be going to the gym or the mall to charge all the time.

Run an extension cord out your apartment window?

I've been "fighting with my HOA", which is really just fighting with my nosy neighbour who happens to be 1 of 5 HOA board members, for the past year to install solar. I've been through all the hassle showing them that the state law specifically takes away their right to limit me from installing panels or any renewable energy and finally the panels are going up in a couple weeks. On the one hand, I like that I don't have any junk yards as neighbours but on the other hand it can be annoying when you are on the newer technology side of a 1970's contract...

 

[goldie]

Got another call back from the building management company basically saying they are concerned about the cost of electricity and it's not fair for the other units who are sharing the bill. Also, if everyone starts getting an EV, then they don't have enough outlets for everyone to use and the electricity bill will jump. Bottom line is I can't charge my car and they want me to go through the whole process to get approval. Hopefully I will move out of this place in a few month and don't have to deal with this.

I spoke to the city of Pasadena as well and heard that they are going to require all new buildings to have EV chargers moving forward, so that's good news. But until then, I will be charging at the gym and at the mall, which really takes away from how much I can use the car on the weekends.

I have a feeling they are going to put up a poster or mail something out to everyone in the building about not charging their EV with the outlets. It's going to be a little embarrassing because everyone will know this is about me because I have the only EV in the building...

 

[RonDawg]

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like an uphill battle that I don't have the time to fight.

I definitely feel like the guy was power-tripping a little when he told me that I had to unplug my car immediately. Makes me feel like I got bullied.

Wish I can do something about the situation but the laws just aren't there to support it right now. On top of that, they are going to tell me to stop charging my car and waste paper sending out letters to my landlord and I. :roll:

My wife still drive an ICEV, so this might force us to use that more than I had planned because I can't be going to the gym or the mall to charge all the time.

How many miles do you or your wife drive every day? Living in Pasadena, you at least have some nearby alternative charging solutions if your HOA is not willing to cooperate, at least until you can find a more EV-friendly housing solution.

I don't know where your building is (and I don't expect you to reveal it if you don't want to), but Metro has charging stations on the first level of the Sierra Madre Villa parking station. You do need a Metro EV charging fob, and while it does cost $1/hour with a $3/day cap, at $60/month (assuming 5 days/week, 4 weeks/month) that may be cheaper than what you and/or wife may be spending on fuel for the ICEV. The parking garage itself is free.

There are free charging stations at Pasadena City College and in some of the Old Town parking lots/garages, but you have to pay just to get into the lots themselves, so that is economical only if you were going to park there anyway.

Also, would you or your wife be able to charge at work, or near to work?

 

[abasile]

There are free charging stations at Pasadena City College

I believe charging at PCC is $1.25/hr., on top of the cost of a PCC parking pass. Not worth it for regular use.