What 240V outlet type do I need for a plug-in EVSE?

[schamberlin]

I'm considering having a 240V outlet installed in my garage, for a plug-in EVSE. Exactly what kind of outlet do I need? It seems that the EVSE Upgrade uses a L6-30R plug, the plug-in Aerovironment uses a 6-50, and the GE Wattstation uses a 6-50P. I couldn't find definitive information for two others, but I *think* the Leviton EVB32 uses a 6-50P and the Siemens VC30BLKB uses a 6-50.

Are these all interchangeable? Will a L6-30R plug fit a 6-50 socket? From what I can tell, it won't.

Any guess what style of outlet will give me the best compatibility with current and likely future EVSEs?

 

[smkettner]

You need the outlet connector to match the evse you plan to purchase.

No you cannot plug different NEMA designated plugs into different outlets.
In limited cases you can make an adapter but just get what you need installed and plug in direct.

Don't worry about future proofing as much as just put in what you need.

 

[coolfilmaker]

The type of outlet with the best compatability is a junction box with a bunch of thick wires going into it. I would recommend two gauge wire.

 

[schamberlin]

The type of outlet with the best comparability is a junction box with a bunch of thick wires going into it. I would recommend two gauge wire.

Thanks. You feel a hard-wired installation is better than a plug-in, then? I was leaning towards the plug-in, because if the EVSE ever breaks or I want to sell it and upgrade to a newer/better one, I could just unplug the old and replug the new without involving an electrician.

Oh, and I learned the "P" in 6-50P just means "plug". So four of the five plug-in EVSE options use the 6-50 outlet, and EVSE Upgrade's is the odd one out.

 

[davewill]

It's easiest to choose the EVSE and then install the proper outlet. However it's fairly easy to change plugs and receptacles. I have a Blink at home plugged into a 6-50R (the "R" just stands for receptacle and is often left off). When I plug my EVSE upgrade into it, I use an adapter I made from L6-20R* to 6-50P. Most folks who have the upgrade end up making a plethora of adapters to plug into different outlets they may find different places (RV parks, dryer outlets at Grandma's, etc...). Here's a site that sells the adapters: http://www.evseadapters.com/adapters-for-nissan-leaf.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

* The older EVSE upgrades used an L6-20, but the newer ones use an L6-30.

 

[planet4ever]

In case you haven't figured this part out yet, the ones starting with L are locking plugs and receptacles. They are twist in, twist out, so they can't be pulled straight out accidentally. I consider that a definite advantage for a solid connection, especially a semi-permanent one. But, no, none of the locking plugs are compatible with any non-locking outlet, or the other way around.

Ray

 

[MikeD]

schamberlin: You are correct, a NEMA 6-50r seems to be the "standard" receptacle for the current crop of 40a 240v cord-and-plug-connected EVSEs.

Two additional safety measures for you to strongly consider:
1) Put a locked plastic cover on the receptacle to protect children (not expensive).
2) Use a GFCI type (40a 240v) circuit breaker for additional protection for everyone (expensive ~$100). Unknown downside is the possibility you may have excessive number of nuisance trips with this type circuit breaker, but like all GFCIs it adds considerable additional safety for a receptacle very near grounded metal (like a metal conduit to the receptacle) or sometimes wet areas common in a garage.

Concerning using a locking receptacle: IMHO you don't want this kind of receptacle on a portable EVSE when using it with a fixed L6-30r receptacle, because if there is a large pulling force on the plug (tripping over cable or whatever) I think you would rather it just become unplugged rather than risk tearing the plug apart and exposing live wires. Just my $0.02. Of course with a short 6-50p to L6-30r pigtail, the plug side can pull out of the 6-50r receptacle you are contemplating.

I believe all wall mounted EVSEs (but not required of portable cord-and-plug-connected 120v ones) have a NEC strain protection requirement (Article 625.19) that the charging cable power wires are de-energized if there is an excessive pulling force on that cable -- presumably to try to prevent live wires from being exposed if the cable were to be torn loose from the control box during charging.

 

[ebill3]

........................... and EVSE Upgrade's is the odd one out.

Very good reason for that. As I recall, Phil anticipated the use of various adapters, and a locking connection works well for that.

 

[TonyWilliams]

........................... and EVSE Upgrade's is the odd one out.

Very good reason for that. As I recall, Phil anticipated the use of various adapters, and a locking connection works well for that.

Exactly. With the L6-20 or L6-30, you can build a pigtail with a 6-50, or any plug your heart desires (I probably have 20 or more) and connect it to the EVSE with the L6 twist lock connection.

 

[coolfilmaker]

You can't get high power charging through an outlet. Soon enough you will have friends who will want to charge when they come to your house and cars being sold with 500 mile ranges. You won't want a puny EVSE when that happens.

 

[smkettner]

You can't get high power charging through an outlet. Soon enough you will have friends who will want to charge when they come to your house and cars being sold with 500 mile ranges. You won't want a puny EVSE when that happens.

Tesla home evse connector does 20 kW already. How much more is needed at home?

 

[iluvmacs]

The type of outlet with the best compatability is a junction box with a bunch of thick wires going into it. I would recommend two gauge wire.

100A capacity?! Are you putting in a Tesla HPWC to support twin chargers? And how many houses actually have service to handle that extra load? 6 gauge for up to a 50A outlet is just fine for all other cases (barring a super-long wire run)...

 

[coolfilmaker]

You can't get high power charging through an outlet. Soon enough you will have friends who will want to charge when they come to your house and cars being sold with 500 mile ranges. You won't want a puny EVSE when that happens.

Tesla home evse connector does 20 kW already. How much more is needed at home?

And it needs to be hardwired.

 

[schamberlin]

OK, I have a quote from an electrician to install a hard-wired Clipper Creek LCS-25 for $850 + the cost of the EVSE. Is this a reasonable rate, for the San Francisco area?

My panel and service are OK, so the work is just:

- new breaker
- about 10' of 40A wiring from panel to EVSE
- installation of the EVSE
- city permit
- inspection

$850 seems kind of steep, but I don't have a good reference. This guy is highly-rated on Yelp and has done many other Leaf L2 charger installs in the Bay Area.

 

[smkettner]

Including the permit that seems fair to me.

 

[RonDawg]

OK, I have a quote from an electrician to install a hard-wired Clipper Creek LCS-25 for $850 + the cost of the EVSE. Is this a reasonable rate, for the San Francisco area?

My panel and service are OK, so the work is just:

- new breaker
- about 10' of 40A wiring from panel to EVSE
- installation of the EVSE
- city permit
- inspection

$850 seems kind of steep, but I don't have a good reference. This guy is highly-rated on Yelp and has done many other Leaf L2 charger installs in the Bay Area.

If you're going to spend that kind of money to get 40 amp service, why not get a 30 amp EVSE? The Bosch PowerMax 30A/18 is about the same price as the Clipper Creek.

 

[schamberlin]

If you're going to spend that kind of money to get 40 amp service, why not get a 30 amp EVSE? The Bosch PowerMax 30A/18 is about the same price as the Clipper Creek.

My car won't take advantage of the higher charging rate, and the quality and reliability of the Bosch is unknown since it's new. And it's not even available for sale yet.

From reading other threads on the subject, I thought the typical cost of a basic install like this was around $300 + permit. According to the city web site, the permit is about $120, which is why I thought the $850 seemed high. I'll get a second estimate from another electrician and let you know what they say.

 

[smkettner]

$120 permit + time to make drawing and complete application + time to go down and wait while the city does the review.
Permit could be more work than the job

 

[Mel4EV]

If your new 240 point is only 10" from the breaker, it's likely already close to a dryer outlet. I have the same LCS 25, and I just added a dryer plug, and it reaches the car OK with the existing cable.
The LCS 25 will only draw 16A with the 2012 and 20 with the 2013 Leaf, so will be well under capacity of any dryer circuit.

 

[cdherman]

You can't get high power charging through an outlet. Soon enough you will have friends who will want to charge when they come to your house and cars being sold with 500 mile ranges. You won't want a puny EVSE when that happens.

Tesla home evse connector does 20 kW already. How much more is needed at home?

And indeed, the tesla would need a 120A (not volt!) 220V circuit. That would be at least 2g copper, or larger I think. Crazy....

But I do think that as the first post suggests, having some extra headroom is a good idea for future use. I snagged a 60A (pulls 48A) Clipper Creek off ebay and ran 6g cu to it, even though I have only an 2012 Leaf that pulls a max of 16A. I figure down the road, it saves me, or someone the hassle of an upgrade.