Who is driving 2013 Leaf? EPA range is 75 miles!!!

[TomT]

Interesting in that I typically get 3 regen bubbles at 35 on my 2011 and only got 4 at the same speed in B on the 2013 SV I drove......

B mode definitely has much more regen than just ECO. In ECO, removing foot from pedal at 35mph got me 2 regen bubbles, but B mode got me 5 at that speed.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

Drove the S model today. Started out with 11 bars, 90% charge and 79 miles available. Drove in nice weather on the way in, pouring rain on the way home, where I used the defroster. Stayed in ECO 80-90%, drove freeway 65ish, about 70% of the time. Drove 43 miles, retuuned wth 4 bar, 35% battery and 29 miles remaining. Plugged into 110 at 4:30 when then computer said 18 hours to a 100% charge.

DAY 2

Started out with 12 bars, 100% charged (took about 16 hours), 86 miles to go. 4.2 is my KWM. Todays temperature for the drive was in the 60's; Drove 43 miles on the odometer. Got home with 7 bars, 54% charged, 42 miles remaining. 4.2 is my KWM. Drove mostly fwy around 65 in ECO.

I am reformatting my driving experience into a table, for ease of use. I have also written a "simple" formula to determine implied MAXIMUM driving range (to zero charge). It is basically miles driven divided by state of charge change between the beginning and end of the drive (charge expended if you will). You should knock off 10 to 20 miles of range for many reasons noted on this board. If you are in a high heat or freezing cold region, do not use this table. This information is for San Diego with a brand new battery, relatively flat drive about 2/3 freeway, 1/3 street. I will note when I am not in ECO mode. I drive the fwy at 65 most days. Hope this will be useful in your buying decisions.

Drive # Tempera; Drive sty/Frwy mph; Bars start; Bars end; SOC start; SOC end; Mi. drvn; Imp Rng; note
No. 1. 50’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65; 11 bars; 4 bars at end; 90% beg; 35% end; 43 miles;;; 78 miles Part rain/heat
No. 2. 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65; 12 bars; 7 bars at end; 100% beg; 54% end; 43 miles;;; 93 miles
No. 3. 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65; 12 bars; 5 bars at end; 100% beg; 40% end; 54 miles;;; 90 miles

 

[edatoakrun]

After all, is fair to say that range for 2013 is very much unchanged as proved by Tony and Bob

in certain situations. we cannot take a single drive test as anything other than a single incident with its applicable levels of maximum variance.

already see people who are driving farther including one guy who drove 80 miles (added a trickle charge in between which does cloud the matter) at "60-70" mph including significant elevation changes, etc.

now, the EPA has radically changed how they determine EV range and we all knew that the 2011-12 was shortchanged on the range but the Japanese did not change anything and still saw large improvements. granted, their test emphasizes different things but to say we will see no benefit at all is not something i am willing to accept at this point. there is not enough data out there for me yet

EuroLEAF range increase is now reported to be very close to Japan MY 2013 improvement:

Nissan has released full details about the Euro-spec 2013 Leaf which will be built in Sunderland, UK.

Following the 3,000 EUR price cut announcement, Nissan is offering complete details about the European version of the 2013 Leaf. Compared to the previous Japan-built Leaf, the revised model boasts more than 100 modifications with improvements such as more interior space, more equipment, greater recyclability and subtle tweaks to the car's nose for improved aerodynamic efficiency.

More importantly, the range has increased from 109 miles (175.4 km) to 124 miles (199.5 km). With an optional fast charger the battery can be fully charged in four hours, while with the regular charger takes eight hours...

http://www.worldcarfans.com/113022754379/nissan-details-2013-euro-spec-leaf-electric-vehicle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So either there is an international conspiracy to overstate the 2103 range improvement, Nissan has added unknown mods to the USA 2013 MY to reduce efficiency, or may be, just maybe...

The San Diego Range test was just too poorly designed, and executed, to show much of anything about what the improvement in range from the 2011-12 to 2013 MY USA LEAF actually is?

 

[KJD]

So either there is an international conspiracy to overstate the 2103 range improvement, Nissan has added unknown mods to the USA 2013 MY to reduce efficiency, or may be, just maybe...
The San Diego Range test was just too poorly designed, and executed, to show much of anything about what the improvement in range from the 2011-12 to 2013 MY USA LEAF actually is?

It would appear to me that the San Diego Range test was done pretty well.

If you have any doubts about the test, I would encourage you to get hold of a 2013 ASAP and run your own tests. Please publish the results of the test here so we can all learn from it.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Conspiracy - Nissan put 75 mile range on the sticker for 2013 Nissan Leaf in USA.

CS: Thank you for contacting Nissan LEAF Customer Support
ME: wonder if there is a difference in range between 2012 and 2013 Leaf models?
CS: There is a 7-10% increase in range from 2012 to 2013 models.
ME: can you give me exact EPA numbers for 2012 and 2013?
CS: 2013 Model: Projected MY13 EPA Fuel Economy Estimate 130 city, 102 Highway. Nissan testing results subject to EPA confirmation. Based on EPA formula of 33.7 kW/hour equal to one gallon of gasoline energy, EPA rated the LEAF equivalent to 130 MPG measured as gasoline fuel efficiency in city driving, and 102 MPG in highway driving. Actual mileage may vary with driving conditions - use for comparison only. Projected MY13 EPA range of up to 75 miles. Nissan testing results subject to EPA confirmation.
CS: I'm sorry. The 2012 model info is not on our screen anymore.
ME: EPA for 2011 and 2012 is 73 miles is that correct?
CS: That is correct.

 

[edatoakrun]

So either there is an international conspiracy to overstate the 2103 range improvement, Nissan has added unknown mods to the USA 2013 MY to reduce efficiency, or may be, just maybe...
The San Diego Range test was just too poorly designed, and executed, to show much of anything about what the improvement in range from the 2011-12 to 2013 MY USA LEAF actually is?

It would appear to me that the San Diego Range test was done pretty well.

If you have any doubts about the test, I would encourage you to get hold of a 2013 ASAP and run your own tests. Please publish the results of the test here so we can all learn from it.

While I'd very much like to try driving a 2013 in range test , I believe my participation by driving in any 2013 MY could also add the additional possibility of test error, due to bias by the driver.

IMO, every 2013 LEAF owner with functioning Carwings is capable of running their own range test, and getting far more accurate and representative results than were achieved in San Diego.

The problem appears to be locating a control test of a 2011-12 LEAF for comparison.

Sort of Pathetic, IMO, that despite the hysteria over range loss, no one has come forward with an adequate control test, and I can't either, for a "new" 2011, since my Carwings was not functional until September of 2011, ~ 5 months out of the factory and ~3,300 miles of use.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For the various reasons I've posted elsewhere, principally the lack of battery temperature control/reporting, and the absent Carwings energy consumption and regenerative charging records, both of the two "Phoenix" tests, the mass test in September and the anonymous single LEAF test in November, are, IMO, of limited use as control for 2013 Phoenix test, and almost completely useless for February-San-Diego test conditions.

 

[DaveEV]

Ed, drop it. Seriously.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

There is no conspiracy here. Nissan did their tests and still waiting for confirmation from EPA. Will be nice if Nissan people present here, give assurance to those that still can't accept results of Nissan own tests.

 

[TonyWilliams]

After all, is fair to say that range for 2013 is very much unchanged as proved by Tony and Bob

in certain situations. we cannot take a single drive test as anything other than a single incident with its applicable levels of maximum variance.

already see people who are driving farther including one guy who drove 80 miles (added a trickle charge in between which does cloud the matter) at "60-70" mph including significant elevation changes, etc.

now, the EPA has radically changed how they determine EV range and we all knew that the 2011-12 was shortchanged on the range but the Japanese did not change anything and still saw large improvements. granted, their test emphasizes different things but to say we will see no benefit at all is not something i am willing to accept at this point. there is not enough data out there for me yet

Dave, you're not quite getting this. The "one guy" the I believe you're referring to is "Drees" with a car with a degraded battery in his 2011 LEAF here in San Diego. I clearly specified that the 2013 should, in fact, have a DECREASED range reduction from running the heater with a heat pump versus the resistance heater. Also, the increased efficiency of the charging will result in reduced electricity cost. Neither will INCREASE range.

The weight reductions and aerodynamic improvements did not net the big gains that some (maybe yourself) thought was possible.

 

[ronwright38]

I was told that around the 15 th. of March is when My 2013 SL will be at the Dealer. :roll:

 

[edatoakrun]

I was told that around the 15 th. of March is when My 2013 SL will be at the Dealer. :roll:

Congrats to you and other 13'ers.

I have to admit that it's gonna hurt a little bit, when I see someone in a car I'd like to have more than my LEAF (a '13MY) for the first time in ~two years.

I know that every time I'm on a long trip and waiting for an L2, I'll be re-calculating the 2011 sale/2013 purchase value equation.

But of course, I'm sure this 6.0 kW envy won't last long, since the USA will bring our DC infrastructure up to the first-world (Estonia) level, any month now...

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

I am reformatting my driving experience into a table, for ease of use. I have also written a "simple" formula to determine implied MAXIMUM driving range (to zero charge). It is basically miles driven divided by state of charge change between the beginning and end of the drive (charge expended if you will). You should knock off 10 to 20 miles of range for many reasons noted on this board. If you are in a high heat or freezing cold region, do not use this table. This information is for San Diego with a brand new battery, relatively flat drive about 2/3 freeway, 1/3 street. I will note when I am not in ECO mode. I drive the fwy at 65 most days. Hope this will be useful in your buying decisions.

Drive # Tempera; Drive sty/Frwy mph; Bars start; Bars end; SOC start; SOC end; Mi. drvn; Imp Rng; note
No. 1. 50’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65; 11 bars; 4 bars at end; 90% beg; 35% end; 43 miles;;;; 78 miles; Part rain/heat
No. 2. 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65; 12 bars; 7 bars at end; 100% beg; 54% end; 43 miles;;; 93 miles
No. 3. 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65; 12 bars; 5 bars at end; 100% beg; 40% end; 54 miles;;; 90 miles
No. 4. 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 72; 12 bars; 4 bars at end; 100% beg; 29% end; 61 miles;;; 86; miles Drove the fast lane

 

[EVDRIVER]

Sorry, I don't understand. Why is that cord better? I was thinking I could get a charge on my new 220 circuit with the mail in cord in about 6 hours.

Nissan has done a cost-and-weight-take-out exercise on the trickle charging EVSE for the 2013 LEAF. This new EVSE uses smaller wiring and therefore cannot be upgraded to 16A when it is upgraded to 240V. There is also speculation that it may have a built-in limit on the number of uses available, similar to the RAV4EV EVSE. That is not confirmed, however. Finally, it does not appear to be as rugged as the 2011/2012 EVSE, which is extremely well-built.

There is another cord mod that is faster? How much? Thanks.

The 2011/2012 EVSE can be upgraded to 240V/16A versus 240V/12A for the 2013 EVSE. Since you bought the 3.3kW charger, this will only make a minor difference, since your charger will limit you to around 14A, depending on the voltage in your home.

Very helpful. I have been in communication with the EVSE upgrade company, and told them I was purchasing a 2013. Do you think they don't know this info yet? If I get you, the cord I have can be upgraded to handle my 3.3kw needs at home (although a less robust cord), but there is a possibility that a new configuration may render the cord useless for my purpose, and that is yet to be determined?

If your assumptions are correct, this just cost me about $800

The 2013 cord is upgradeable and after the upgrade will have no timer issue etc. There are o restrictions on the upgrade, there are simply rummors. THere is also no 14A limit.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I am reformatting my driving experience into a table, for ease of use. I have also written a "simple" formula to determine implied MAXIMUM driving range (to zero charge). It is basically miles driven divided by state of charge change between the beginning and end of the drive (charge expended if you will). You should knock off 10 to 20 miles of range for many reasons noted on this board. If you are in a high heat or freezing cold region, do not use this table. This information is for San Diego with a brand new battery, relatively flat drive about 2/3 freeway, 1/3 street. I will note when I am not in ECO mode. I drive the fwy at 65 most days. Hope this will be useful in your buying decisions.

Drive # Tempera; Drive sty/Frwy mph; Bars start; Bars end; SOC start; SOC end; Mi. drvn; Imp Rng; note
No. 1. 50’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65; 11 bars; 4 bars at end; 90% beg; 35% end; 43 miles;;;; 78 miles; Part rain/heat
No. 2. 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65; 12 bars; 7 bars at end; 100% beg; 54% end; 43 miles;;; 93 miles
No. 3. 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65; 12 bars; 5 bars at end; 100% beg; 40% end; 54 miles;;; 90 miles
No. 4. 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 72; 12 bars; 4 bars at end; 100% beg; 29% end; 61 miles;;; 86; miles Drove the fast lane

and we can determine that a 2011 will do the same?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

After all, is fair to say that range for 2013 is very much unchanged as proved by Tony and Bob

in certain situations. we cannot take a single drive test as anything other than a single incident with its applicable levels of maximum variance.

already see people who are driving farther including one guy who drove 80 miles (added a trickle charge in between which does cloud the matter) at "60-70" mph including significant elevation changes, etc.

now, the EPA has radically changed how they determine EV range and we all knew that the 2011-12 was shortchanged on the range but the Japanese did not change anything and still saw large improvements. granted, their test emphasizes different things but to say we will see no benefit at all is not something i am willing to accept at this point. there is not enough data out there for me yet

Dave, you're not quite getting this. The "one guy" the I believe you're referring to is "Drees" with a car with a degraded battery in his 2011 LEAF here in San Diego. I clearly specified that the 2013 should, in fact, have a DECREASED range reduction from running the heater with a heat pump versus the resistance heater. Also, the increased efficiency of the charging will result in reduced electricity cost. Neither will INCREASE range.

The weight reductions and aerodynamic improvements did not net the big gains that some (maybe yourself) thought was possible.

"I" am not getting this?? you should talk

i am not talking about temperatures here. I am talking about Bob and him driving 70 mph for 61 miles and still having 29% capacity. I cannot do that in my LEAF. If I drove 70 mph, i could probably do 61 miles but that would be about all

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=271183#p271183" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

besides, since when did Drees get a 2013 anyway? this is what we are talking about right?

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

I was at the dealer the other day and a 2012 leaf drove in. So, I took a picture of the nose. Notice the massive changes in the aerodynamics of the 2013 vs 2012.
http://s1282.beta.photobucket.com/u...ibrary/?&_suid=136218216789207257392355377952

 

[thankyouOB]

I was told that around the 15 th. of March is when My 2013 SL will be at the Dealer. :roll:

Congrats to you and other 13'ers.

I have to admit that it's gonna hurt a little bit, when I see someone in a car I'd like to have more than my LEAF (a '13MY) for the first time in ~two years.

I know that every time I'm on a long trip and waiting for an L2, I'll be re-calculating the 2011 sale/2013 purchase value equation.

what ED said, but I do want to wait until three years have passed with my 2011 so that I do not need to return any of the CA EV rebate.
Also, Red runs sweetly.
But of course, I'm sure this 6.0 kW envy won't last long, since the USA will bring our DC infrastructure up to the first-world (Estonia) level, any month now...

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

i am not talking about temperatures here. I am talking about Bob and him driving 70 mph for 61 miles and still having 29% capacity. I cannot do that in my LEAF. If I drove 70 mph, i could probably do 61 miles but that would be about all

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=271183#p271183" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

besides, since when did Drees get a 2013 anyway? this is what we are talking about right?

Hi all: Just to clarify, starting with a 100% charge on a new battery, I drove 61 miles, of which 2/3 was freeway, at about 72 mph with bars to spare. What that means, I can't say. I will try it again next week. I am going to keep posting my results in varied drives, not so much to prove anything, but to help the average Joe (which I was a month ago) understand the car's range. You know, some days you go 65, others you're late for work and you go 72, the next it rains. In regard to Ton'y test, he is an expert driver, and got everything the car had to give, at a constant 64 mph or so of almost all fwy driving. I, on the other hand drive a fair amount time going 35 mph taking my kid to school, and that is influencing my results. If there is something either remarkable, or haywire, about my data it will certainly be evident over time. Thx, Bob

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Bob, the test is a valid result, never disputed that nut it alone cannot prove anything. The default is 84 miles at 60 whatever mph on flat grojnd with no wind at 70°F. that is not the drive u made. «that» is all i am saying.

Now, maybe my degradation has been so gradual, i have simply not noticed but u appear to be driving farther and faster than my LEAF ever could and as a self professed rookie EVer.

 

[TonyWilliams]

"I" am not getting this?? you should talk

i am not talking about temperatures here. I am talking about Bob and him driving 70 mph for 61 miles and still having 29% capacity. I cannot do that in my LEAF. If I drove 70 mph, i could probably do 61 miles but that would be about all

Lets see, I just drove his car, so I'm pretty confident what that can can do. If you want to believe otherwise (it drove 70mph for 61 miles with 29%), be my guest.

No, you're not getting it.