Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???
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Evoforce
Well-known member
You are hilarious!LeftieBiker said:
Evoforce
Well-known member
You can now buy 6-7 year old Model S in the high $20,000 to low $30,000 range. For sure you cannot buy a $3,500 Tesla and there are good reasons for that.Oilpan4 said:
The Tesla 3 is still priced (as an out the door price) at a 20-40% premium to the Leaf (And guessing the Kona/Niro) as well.
A base SR+ with nearly no options is still 39K with delivery including the destination fees ($45 with full Autodrive). Post the utility and federal discount, you can get an SL plus out the door for about 33K. (Less in some cases). So about a 20% difference. If you drop to the SV (with tech/weather) that jumps to 30%, and at the S you are at 40% difference in price.
Obviously a feature discussion will ensue, but I don't think its accurate to say the cars are priced the same. I am also not considering the insurance premium that comes with the Tesla. Even though this thread doesn't sound like it, I am a Tesla fan, and love the look of the cars. I absolutely don't trust myself in one though given my history earlier in life with Sport Cars. Even the Leaf Plus has way too much power in my opinion. I think they should have saved weight and reduced the motor unit size. A 12 second 0-60 sounds great (Like my 2003 Kia Optima) The acceleration from 50 - 80 is really quite impressive in the Leaf Plus. Better than my 85 TransAm or 75 Camaro.
Alex on autos, and a few other have put the Leaf+ and SR+ at equivalent range all things included (with AC/Heat, mixed use driving, etc..)
A base SR+ with nearly no options is still 39K with delivery including the destination fees ($45 with full Autodrive). Post the utility and federal discount, you can get an SL plus out the door for about 33K. (Less in some cases). So about a 20% difference. If you drop to the SV (with tech/weather) that jumps to 30%, and at the S you are at 40% difference in price.
Obviously a feature discussion will ensue, but I don't think its accurate to say the cars are priced the same. I am also not considering the insurance premium that comes with the Tesla. Even though this thread doesn't sound like it, I am a Tesla fan, and love the look of the cars. I absolutely don't trust myself in one though given my history earlier in life with Sport Cars. Even the Leaf Plus has way too much power in my opinion. I think they should have saved weight and reduced the motor unit size. A 12 second 0-60 sounds great (Like my 2003 Kia Optima) The acceleration from 50 - 80 is really quite impressive in the Leaf Plus. Better than my 85 TransAm or 75 Camaro.
Alex on autos, and a few other have put the Leaf+ and SR+ at equivalent range all things included (with AC/Heat, mixed use driving, etc..)
webeleafowners
Well-known member
Evoforce said:Tesla has made, and currently makes, superior electric cars compared to Nissan. Anyone who cannot acknowledge that is either uninformed or stubbornly stuck to the Nissan Brand. Tesla is not going out of business and to say it is, is grasping at straws. One could also say that Nissan will stop producing electric cars as well... Might as well just say you are a Nissan fanatic or fan boy. Nothing wrong with that really. Just admit that, no matter what, you will choose Nissan. No need to rationalize then.
Two different cars. Both do certain things well. We love Tesla’s in general and looked closely at the three. 4 test drives confirmed that it wouldn’t work for us for a variety of reasons. The Eplus is a perfect fit for us but we’ll miss the performance of the three and the Supercharger network. However neither of those things is important enough to put up with the things that aren’t right about it. Budget was not a big consideration. We actually considered an S but it’s just too big.
Glad you are happy with your Tesla. Great car. Not the only car.
WetEV
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
+1
As I posted in the other thread, the faster ChadeMo charging is absolutely there with the plus. The newer EA chargers let you take advantage of that charging rate (though certainly still catch up to a Model 3 or eTron).
EA receipt (started with 12% on the dash):
07/28/2019 08:57:49 PM
Lincolnwood Town Center
3333 W Touhy Ave.
Lincolnwood, Illinois 60712
charger #200014-01
Connector #2
Total paid: $6.07
Session ID: 35142
End state of charge: 50%
Total energy delivered: 22.1 kWh
Max charging rate: 73.29 kW
Charging time: 00:20:17
Grace period: 00:10 min
Paid idle time: 00:00
EA receipt (started with 12% on the dash):
07/28/2019 08:57:49 PM
Lincolnwood Town Center
3333 W Touhy Ave.
Lincolnwood, Illinois 60712
charger #200014-01
Connector #2
Total paid: $6.07
Session ID: 35142
End state of charge: 50%
Total energy delivered: 22.1 kWh
Max charging rate: 73.29 kW
Charging time: 00:20:17
Grace period: 00:10 min
Paid idle time: 00:00
rogersleaf
Well-known member
Large amounts of data isn't needed. You answered the main question... The car is native to hot & sunny central Florida. It's no secret that heat destroys a LEAF battery, and it doesn't make much difference if driving vs. parked in the heat. Last time I was through the area, traffic was running at least 75 mph, and at times was getting passed by everything when running 80. That heat and workload was fine for my Ridgeline, but would never want to subject a LEAF battery to those conditions. Would expect consistently hot battery temps without much opportunity to cool off and not the slightest bit surprised your battery is loosing capacity quickly. Remember once having an air-cooled VW Bug, those machines also didn't do so well in the heat especially when run hard. Suggest paying a little more for an EV with liquid cooling.valem said:
Evoforce
Well-known member
Oilpan4 said:
I'm not sure what you are referring to but I just got a recall on both of my Leafs that are battery related to possible corrosion/poor grounding and maybe fire or shock? Did you get your notice to repair yet? I suppose a Leaf with an uncooled battery might be more susceptible to catching on fire but I haven't seen where this is a problem with any of the electric cars currently on the market. I would worry more about burning your house down by possibly incorrectly hooking up your car to power your (water well) or home appliances. Not that it can't be done, but not efficiently with the Leaf.
cwerdna
Well-known member
I won't go as far as what Oilpan4 is saying but perhaps you've missed some of the incidents of various Tesla fires and the assertion that Tesla uses an unstable chemistry: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=336543#p336543. The below isn't a complete list. Most of these I knew of off the top of my head because I'd read of them or seen the videos before.Evoforce said:
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/16/tesla-car-fire-battery-software-update/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-electric-vehicle-fire-mary-mccormack-tweet/ - skip to the tweet
https://www.thedrive.com/news/27823/another-tesla-model-s-randomly-catches-fire-in-san-francisco-garage-report
https://abc7news.com/watch-live-tesla-catches-fire-in-los-gatos/4925030/ - this actually happened near my work
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/06/tesla-model-s-battery-ignites-twice-following-fatal-crash.html
https://insideevs.com/news/341410/tesla-model-x-on-fire-in-california-video/
https://insideevs.com/news/322898/stolen-tesla-model-s-crashes-gets-cut-in-half-goes-up-in-flames-video-updates/ - near the beginning of the video you can see the fire and the cells going off like firecrackers into the air
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/davie/fl-ne-electric-vehicle-battery-fires-20190225-story.html mentions a few other incidents
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/tesla-model-catch-fire/story?id=20462128 was from years ago.
Leaf, being the world's best selling EV (for now) hasn't had any HV battery fires that I'm aware of, at least w/o any unauthorized modifications to the HV pack and HV system.
Supposedly this is what happens w/a Leaf cell if you try setting it on fire or poking it w/a screwdriver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz37WycW-7E.
valem said:
The wife and I recently went through this process.
We had a 2015 Nissan Leaf SV and we were looking for a new EV. The 2015 Leaf was our first EV and we were ready for a upgrade. We have two cars so were were not looking for the Leaf to become a primary car for us. We live in Southern California and we have a relatively mild climate. Our 2015 Leaf still have 12 bars and had about 7% degradation after 3+ years of daily charging.
Previously we had purchased the 2015 Leaf and I wanted to Lease this time. For our next EV purchase I wanted to Lease because of the rapid change in technology currently for EV's because they are so new.
For the Model 3.
We found the car extremely low to the ground and difficult for either one of us to get out.
The seats we also found to be uncomfortable.
My wife also didn't like how "techy" the Model 3 was (her words not mine).
Tesla has a lot of chaos going on. I got two Tesla PW2's installed over a year ago. One of the batteries went bad less than a week after the install. Trying to get the battery replaced under warranty took over 3-months and basically Tesla's customer service sucked. At the time I told myself why would I buy a $50k car from a company that cannot even handle the support on a $15k battery installation?
We looked at the new Leaf's and wound up signing a 3-year Lease on a SV Plus at the end of June.
The Zero-Gravity seats in the new Leaf were extremely comfortable. It was easy for us to get in-out of the car.
So far we have been very happy. If we do suffer bad battery degradation I can simply turn in the car at the end of the 3-year lease and walk away. When the Tesla Model Y comes out we will be looking at it. It looks have a higher seating position and hopefully more comfortable seats.
It was the best seller again last month in Norway.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/363510/july-2019-plugin-ev-car-sales-norway/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/363510/july-2019-plugin-ev-car-sales-norway/amp/
rogersleaf said:
In my data I also keep track of highest cell temp. and even when really warm out it's in the mid 80s. Battery has been on average in the mid 70s betwen November and April, and in mid 80s betwen may and October. Few sporadic peaks in the high 90s due to DC charging.
I avoid highways, avoid driving in the hot times of day and will go out of my way to park in the shade.
Because I rarely drive during the hot times, I also rarely use the A/C. That is correct, in central FL, in the summer, I very rarely use the AC... I suffer to maximize range. Also I avoid highways to maximize range, and when I go on the highways I set cruise to speed limit up to 65. Everyone passes me, but besides working the battery hard, if I go above 65, the Leaf won't go very far.
So I mostly do city driving when it's not hot out, without AC.
I drive very little 5 to 6k mi /year.
I can count on my fingers the charges to 100%, I usually charge with home L2 from 30% to 60% at most.
Extremely shallow charge cycles, and even with temps in the 60s of the FL winter I was experiencing an SOH drop of about 1%/1000.
Hot or cold weather, this car is losing 1% SOH per 1000 miles.
Which is consistent with the first battery... the original battery was replaced at 29k miles (previous owner)
I don't know what the SOH was, but it has to drop at least 4 bars to be replaced, which is about a 34% loss correct? 15% first bar and 6.25% the other 3?
I bought it with 35800mi, 6k miles later and SOH when I bought it was 94%. Dead spot on with 1% per 1000mi!
I now have 41616, about 12k miles after replacement, lo and behold SOH is 88.74, down 11.26% ... incredibly accurate!
So I drove 5800mi and SOH dropped from 94.08 to 88.74 or 1% every 1089mi to be exact.
Just like clockwork
That’s crazy, especially across 2 different batteries.
With our 2013 we lost our first bar at 5 years to the week (almost to the day) and was down about 20ish percent when we traded it in for a 2019. We usually only had 80-84 miles on the GOM vs 100 or so in the first year. While the range decrease was steady, it was within my expectations for the car.
After watching the screaming with the last Tesla update, the 20% doesn’t even that out of line with those owners’ experience for similarly aged cars.
With our 2013 we lost our first bar at 5 years to the week (almost to the day) and was down about 20ish percent when we traded it in for a 2019. We usually only had 80-84 miles on the GOM vs 100 or so in the first year. While the range decrease was steady, it was within my expectations for the car.
After watching the screaming with the last Tesla update, the 20% doesn’t even that out of line with those owners’ experience for similarly aged cars.
Jerryr
Well-known member
valem said:
Valem,
Your 1%l loss/1000 miles in Florida when driving 6000 miles/yr works out to 0.5%/month. I have found that about 0.4%-0.5%/month loss no matter how many miles I drive here in Florida.
With my 2015, my 2018 and now my 2019 Plus I was loosing 0.5%/month no matter how many miles I drove. In fact when I bought my 2015 it only has 200 miles on it but it sat on dealer lot for 11 months. It had 94% SOH when I bought it.
