LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13269
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:37 pm

The Leaf battery is "passively air cooled," at least until 2018 when there is little of that as well. The Hyundai battery in question is forced-air cooled, but isn't that only when QC is in use? I don't remember. At any rate, I'm not trying to cloud the issue. I can remember reading complaints about capacity loss in the Soul EV forum here. Try reading about it there. meanwhile, here are a couple of links:


https://www.insideevsforum.com/communit ... ul-ev.169/


https://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewt ... &start=310
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Leaf15
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:51 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jun 2018
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:53 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:37 pm
The Hyundai battery in question is forced-air cooled, but isn't that only when QC is in use? I don't remember.
It is active during QC and depending on battery temp during normal operation, just like any other BTM would operate.

BTW, here is another owner that used his Ioniq EV for , ah Good Lord, for Uber exclusively and put 80K in about 14 month. Battery or range was not even mentioned by him, except summer/winter differences. I saw some discussions about EV battery warranty and possible degradation on Hyundai forums, but not any talk about EV battery issues or actual cases of degradation as it is not on any owner list of issues.

https://www.ioniqforum.com/threads/1-ye ... iew.33288/
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV Limited

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14156
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:38 am

Air cooling in the 2018 Soul is insufficient to cool the pack w/o the car running during charging with A/C cranking. The Soul uses forced cabin air to cool the pack so if the car is charging when off, it will not cool.

I know a guy who has done several road trips including San Diego a month or so ago from WA and he has A/C set to 62º and has seat heater running to tolerate...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13269
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:21 pm

I've been talking about issues with the Soul EV only, not the Ionic.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2051
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:29 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:38 am
I know a guy who has done several road trips including San Diego a month or so ago from WA and he has A/C set to 62º and has seat heater running to tolerate...
:lol:

I had to laugh at this one. I normally turn on the heated seats when it gets below 40. 62 would feel great, but I set the A/C to 72 to save energy.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GRA
Posts: 11065
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:53 pm

As others have noted, there were quite a few reports in the Soul topic and on that forum about excessive battery degradation in heat, and IIRR AVTA also found that the Soul wasn't much better than the LEAF, at least in Phoenix. The master page for all those tests is here: https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-type/all-po ... ure?page=1

Unfortunately there seems to be a problem with the individual pages at the moment, but here's an old post from the Soul topic that references the results after 11 months: https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-type/all-po ... ure?page=1

In short, the only ATM method that seems to have a major effect on degradationis liquid cooling, and even that has to be well done - Ford's for the Focus apparently wasn't (the set temp for cooling was apparently too high), but GM's and Tesla's were, and I forget how BMW fared. I'd expect the current Korean battery packs, which do have liquid cooling, to do better than the 1st gen. Soul.

OT: In my ICE I normally don't use the A/C until the car's OAT gauge is over 84 degrees and that will be sustained for at least 20 minutes or more, but on my recent trip up to Mt. Shasta and back, along the Central Valley in I-5, I was curious on the way back to see just how high a temp would be reasonably comfortable using only the fan. Note - I bought my first car with A/C back in the '80s specifically to deal with high Central Valley summer temps, as I'd done enough sweltering in non-A/C equipped cars while driving across or along it.

Anyway, I found that shirtless, just wearing shorts and sockless sandals (my normal hot weather driving attire, and with cloth seats which I insist on), I was OK right up to the car's OAT gauge reading 100 briefly. It was between 93 and 99 from Redding all the way down I-5 to Dunnigan. Note, this isn't the official shade temp, and it was actually a relatively cool summer afternoon by Central Valley standards. It's also dry heat, so there's no comparison to areas with similar temps and high humidity. But the heat was making me drowsy (and I'd been awake since around 1 a.m. and this was mid-afternoon), so after seeing 100 for a brief period around Red Bluff I turned the A/C on and was a lot more alert, not to mention happier!

One noticeable advantage of a PEV over an ICE is at rest stops in high temps. I got so drowsy that I still needed to needed to pull off and take a nap at the Dunnigan rest area, but this is difficult/impossible for me in high temps, and leaving the engine idling to run the A/C while I'm trying to take a nap isn't something I want to do. A PEV could just run the A/C while it was charging, and this wouldn't be an issue. End OT.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Leaf15
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:51 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jun 2018
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:39 pm

Folks who reside is crazy hot zones like Arizona, Texas, Florida have only one choice - Tesla. Although, Tesla drain the battery when not in use - Tesla would maintain battery even when turned off or in storage/parking. Nothing else can deal with this kind of excessive heat. Everybody should choose what is right for his/her situation. In North-East or North-West USA the excessive heat is not an issue, so the choices are plenty more.
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV Limited

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13269
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:48 pm

Leaf15 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:39 pm
Folks who reside is crazy hot zones like Arizona, Texas, Florida have only one choice - Tesla. Although, Tesla drain the battery when not in use - Tesla would maintain battery even when turned off or in storage/parking. Nothing else can deal with this kind of excessive heat. Everybody should choose what is right for his/her situation. In North-East or North-West USA the excessive heat is not an issue, so the choices are plenty more.
The Bolt also has effective active liquid cooling. So two choices at least.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

WetEV
Posts: 3153
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:37 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:48 pm
Leaf15 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:39 pm
Folks who reside is crazy hot zones like Arizona, Texas, Florida have only one choice - Tesla. Although, Tesla drain the battery when not in use - Tesla would maintain battery even when turned off or in storage/parking. Nothing else can deal with this kind of excessive heat. Everybody should choose what is right for his/her situation. In North-East or North-West USA the excessive heat is not an issue, so the choices are plenty more.
The Bolt also has effective active liquid cooling. So two choices at least.
As does the Kia Niro EV.
And the Audi eTron.
And the Jaguar iPace.
And yes, a Leaf still makes sense for some people in Arizona, Texas and Florida. Less vampire drain for long duration parking at the airport. Yes, road trips are unrealistic. And the battery will degrade faster than it would in the PNW. Yet if 8 year warranty is good enough, still might be the best choice.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14156
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:47 am

What has become apparent is that a good CE is vital in hot areas. Poor CE means greater rates of degradation as the temperature rises with the "reasonable to critical" temperature being lower.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”