Nissan Ariya to be announced for the JDM July 15, 2020

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coleafrado2 said:
Forget kilowatt-hours and kilowatts. Let's just talk in terms of horsepower and miles per hour.
Miles per hour is only accurate for a given vehicle assuming a certain efficiency (e.g. miles per kWh or watt-hours per mile), which may or may not have a published constant. And, if you achieve less than that constant, each "mile" isn't worth a mile and vice versa.

How do you like tables like these?
https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/wall-connector
https://web.archive.org/web/20180922075332/https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/wall-connector <-- this isn't even accurate for many cases like the Model S that were sold with twin (almost) 10 kW (40 amps each) OBCs. It's not accurate for later Model 3's as they later could be had w/48 vs. 32 amp OBCs. There are older tables which I'd have to dig up that accurately reflect the Model S w/80 amps of OBC.

Also, eventually, Tesla stopped equipping vehicles in the US w/40, 72 and 80 amps of OBC. They max out at 48 now. Seems like they only are 48 and 32 amps now per https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/onboard-charger. (https://web.archive.org/web/20180915023127/https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/onboard-charger shows 72 being a choice before.)

The above tables aren't accurate for 208 volts either (common for commercial power and the voltage at my work). You need to multiply all of those by 0.866.

At work, before COVID, a Tesla driver in Slack might say, I'm getting nn mph. Is that right? How the heck should I know? I need to know which vehicle and OBC they have, at a minimum. They should tell me what voltage they're seeing and amps (visible in their car and in their Tesla app). Voltage might be a little low at that spot or that day.

Besides the 30 amp max output ChargePoint CT4000 stations, we have a bunch of gen 2 Wall Connectors (https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/wall-connector-second-generation) in a power sharing arrangement. Each pair was on a 100 amp circuit for 80 amp max draw. If two vehicles were connected drawing full power w/40+ amp OBC, each side would only get 40 amps, until one ramped down, finished or was unplugged.

Let's go by values that aren't dependent on crazy, almost always inaccurate, often unpublished and varying constants.

I have never used an L2 EVSE or DC FC that has a display that tells me how many ""miles" per hour" I'm getting. Even if it did, it's of no value to me due to needing know the constant they chose vs. how many mies/kWh I expect to get.

1 hp = ~746 watts
 
cwerdna said:
coleafrado2 said:
Forget kilowatt-hours and kilowatts. Let's just talk in terms of horsepower and miles per hour.
Miles per hour is only accurate for a given vehicle assuming a certain efficiency (e.g. miles per kWh or watt-hours per mile), which may or may not have a published constant.
EPA Miles per hour of charge relies on the same value as published range. Would you also like to get rid of EPA published range ? :lol:

All Teslas report EPA miles available at all times; and during charging the car reports EPA miles accumulating per time.

It works well. Other manufacturers will eventually catch on and catch up, but it is taking time because the non-Teslas of the world are not in any hurry to highlight lousy efficiency.
 
knightmb said:
An 800V DC fast charger could still charge a 350V, 360V, or 375V battery. Nissan is using 500V to charge their 360V battery with CHAdeMO. How much voltage is actually needed to charge an 800V battery? 1000V?

I thought the limitation on charging was the battery chemistry in terms of power not the voltage? If you feed 1000V @ 50A into any of those batteries, they will all charge at the same rate of 50 kW per second. I understand using higher voltage to reduce the size of wires in the electrical system of the EV for both driving and charging, but how does that exclude the higher voltage charging for the lower voltage batteries?

uhhh...no. You "can't" put a 1000 volts into the LEAF pack no matter what. so 1000 volts @ 50 amps won't get you 50 kw. Might get 19 lw but that's about it. This is the reason that I only rate DC chargers by current.
 
cwerdna said:
Miles per hour is only accurate for a given vehicle assuming a certain efficiency (e.g. miles per kWh or watt-hours per mile), which may or may not have a published constant. And, if you achieve less than that constant, each "mile" isn't worth a mile and vice versa.
It's hard getting this point through some people's head, especially in FB Tesla groups. Someone says a meaningless comment like "I was getting 320mi/hour charging at a SuperCharger today" and then fails to note what car they have. A Model X and a Model 3 have a different constant and that rate might be 80kW to one and 120kW to the other.
 
jlv said:
It's hard getting this point through some people's head, especially in FB Tesla groups. Someone says a meaningless comment like "I was getting 320mi/hour charging at a SuperCharger today" and then fails to note what car they have. A Model X and a Model 3 have a different constant and that rate might be 80kW to one and 120kW to the other.
I don't see how that is much different than someone saying "I got 30 mpg" without noting car, driver and enviro conditions.
 
Ariya test mule spotted charging in VT.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/TONEC/posts/2303793163085246/

Since it's not an open group, I'll include the OP here:
Does anyone know what this is? EV Charging at the EVGO charger next to the Superchargers outside of Montpelier, VT. The car had Michigan Manufacturer plates, and the woman driving it admitted that they were on a cross country test drive, but she wouldn't tell me what kind of car it was. All emblems were covered up with electrical tape, and even the wheels had had the center cap removed. My wife has a couple of snap shots. Looks like it is aimed at the MY market, if you ask me.

216804947_10219806417978923_5968421756403015678_n.jpg
 
Nissan Ariya Soon Will Be Available For Pre-Order In Norway
https://insideevs.com/news/530198/nissan-ariya-preorder-norway/
Nissan has announced that later this month, on the World EV Day (September 9), will open Nissan Ariya pre-orders to the public in Norway as its first market in Europe. The prices are not yet announced.

Pre-ordering is already possible in Japan, and more markets to follow later this year, but the actual market launch of the Ariya is still far.

In Japan, sales will start "this winter", which means 2021/2022 (instead of mid-2021), while in Norway customer deliveries are expected to begin in Summer 2022. That's around a year from now.

The launch in the U.S. and Canada was expected in 2021, but now it's probably also 2022.
SageBrush said:
cwerdna said:
coleafrado2 said:
Forget kilowatt-hours and kilowatts. Let's just talk in terms of horsepower and miles per hour.
Miles per hour is only accurate for a given vehicle assuming a certain efficiency (e.g. miles per kWh or watt-hours per mile), which may or may not have a published constant.
EPA Miles per hour of charge relies on the same value as published range. Would you also like to get rid of EPA published range ? :lol:

All Teslas report EPA miles available at all times; and during charging the car reports EPA miles accumulating per time.

It works well. Other manufacturers will eventually catch on and catch up, but it is taking time because the non-Teslas of the world are not in any hurry to highlight lousy efficiency.
It doesn't scale. What about countries outside the US? Now, you need to report different miles per hour or km/h depending on the mandated rating system since EPA ratings are US-specific.

What if someone talks about Superchargers in say Europe and we don't know their max output in kW but we know kph.... now what? How do we compare them? Do we use unpublished conversion factors?

How about we get rid of ALL ratings of EVSEs and chargers and instead give them "miles per hour" ratings?

So, instead of say 72 kW or 250 kW Superchargers, we now need to assign them multiple "miles per hour" ratings, depending on the vehicle. If another Tesla model comes out or a variant comes out with significantly different efficiency, we need another score. But wait, the "miles per hour" score isn't accurate since charging rates, esp. DC fast charging aren't linear.

Ditto for wall connectors. Instead of the current (gen 3) WCs that are 48 amp output max: https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/wall-connector, we need to assign it at least 4 "miles per hour" max output ratings. See the table further down below? Let's also obfuscate it all, getting rid of amperages then just talk about "mph".
 
cwerdna said:
It doesn't scale.
It scales just fine, but you have to use accurate units such as 'EPA miles' or ' WLTP km'. Then by extension you get WLTP km/hour or EPA charging miles per hour
Which is (surprise!) no different in application than WLTP km/liter or EPA MPG
 
I prefer to use wltp as the consistent measure over epa, as the EPA offers the choice in testing cycles. As a result the numbers are not apples to apples between cars. I am not implying that the number produced is an all weather achievable range, just a ln equal comparison when comparing cars.
 
I don't see any of the tests being valid to me. I have a car that will get me 265 on a charge after 2 years. Same car, different area, its barely 200. Its all about where you are, where you go and how many others are going in your direction. The ideology of hitting the highway and driving 75 for 3 hours is a pipe dream around here in nearly any direction. You can sort of do that going south but you have 3 different slow downs in the first 100 miles then the 70 mph zone is gone.

I also found the ideology of "drive slower, add this. Drive faster subtract this" to not work either. For whatever reason (guess minor traffic/weather issues maybe? But the results are rather consistent.) I don't seem to lose as much range at higher speeds and I don't seem to gain as much range as I should at lower speeds.

I just changed locations but they are essentially on the same street about a mile apart so not a significant commute change. I drive literally as fast as I can in the morning and at night probably averaging 75+ on the way home and average 4.5 miles/kwh. Now, its a short trip 28.6 miles RT give or take but the results don't vary and when you do it 4 days a week, every week and get the same...

Obviously there is a lot more to this story. I had thought about hypermiling a 300 mile charge but found that even driving slower like 62 mph on the freeway with a big chunk of highway (mostly 50 or 55 mph with limited traffic control ) only got me to the 280's or so. Driving 70 drops me to the 230's. I quite honestly was expecting a lot more of a difference.
 
Very unscientifically, I find the dumb cruise control to be more efficient than propilot.

I agree that in the S+, the efficiency difference between 55, 60, 65, 70mph is tighter than in the SV+. In the SV+, on anything but a super hot day, you are in the low 3s at 70mph+ (unless driving with a pack of cars/trucks). At 55mph you are in the mid and sometimes upper 4s. In the S+ at 55-60mph you are around 5 miles/kWh and down to mid 4s at 70mph.

I am starting though also not to care. As long as I can do over 200 miles on a charge at 70 (which the S+ can in most weather), there is not much else I need the car to do. I do want one major car review site to range test the S+, but not sure that will happen.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Very unscientifically, I find the dumb cruise control to be more efficient than propilot.

I agree that in the S+, the efficiency difference between 55, 60, 65, 70mph is tighter than in the SV+. In the SV+, on anything but a super hot day, you are in the low 3s at 70mph+ (unless driving with a pack of cars/trucks). At 55mph you are in the mid and sometimes upper 4s. In the S+ at 55-60mph you are around 5 miles/kWh and down to mid 4s at 70mph.

I am starting though also not to care. As long as I can do over 200 miles on a charge at 70 (which the S+ can in most weather), there is not much else I need the car to do. I do want one major car review site to range test the S+, but not sure that will happen.

Interesting findings, however anecdotal.

I'm a little surprised that the S+ is that much more efficient than the SV+. It's not like the one weighs that much more, and even if it did, you're mostly talking about more or less steady state driving, aren't you?

Our SL+ routinely gets mid 4's, and I'm not working at it in the least. I drive the car like my other cars, precisely because I want to know what it can do under similar circumstances/driving styles. I average 4 even for the whole year with my driving cycle, which is almost exclusively in town, very little highway. I do run snow tires in the winter, and have moved the stock all-seasons to new wheels, which are not aero (but are 5# lighter each).

To your point, the car gets me to where I want to go. That's all that really matters.
 
Definitely interested in the Ariya. Cross-shopping against the Q4 eTron and the ID4, as those are the cars we can get in Colorado that I might be interested in. Can't really see myself in a Ford or a Chevy. Wife hates the Bolt anyway (looks). I'm not super fond of the Mach E.

Lots to consider. We're looking at downsizing in a big way in the next few years. There is a model where we downsize into something quite a bit smaller (transit-oriented housing), shed the camper and the Audi (tow vehicle), keep the roadster for fun, and upgrade the Leaf into something more like our Q5, but in an EV.

That might be an Ariya. We'll see. If they ever get it here...

I've kind of eliminated the Teslas, as I just don't like the interior enough. I'm done with it. No. Moving on.

The ID4 is iffy. Drum brakes? No 360 camera? Prolly not, but I'll look at it.
 
frontrangeleaf said:
Definitely interested in the Ariya. Cross-shopping against the Q4 eTron and the ID4, as those are the cars we can get in Colorado that I might be interested in. Can't really see myself in a Ford or a Chevy. Wife hates the Bolt anyway (looks). I'm not super fond of the Mach E.

Lots to consider. We're looking at downsizing in a big way in the next few years. There is a model where we downsize into something quite a bit smaller (transit-oriented housing), shed the camper and the Audi (tow vehicle), keep the roadster for fun, and upgrade the Leaf into something more like our Q5, but in an EV.

That might be an Ariya. We'll see. If they ever get it here...

I've kind of eliminated the Teslas, as I just don't like the interior enough. I'm done with it. No. Moving on.

The ID4 is iffy. Drum brakes? No 360 camera? Prolly not, but I'll look at it.


VW has explained their rationale for using rear drum brakes, and it makes sense to me:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/36683...-id-4-electric-crossover-has-rear-drum-brakes

When I bought my Forester back in 2003 I opted for the mid- rather than lowest trim in part to get 4-wheel discs rather than discs/drums, so I know where you're coming from, but things change.


Are you not considering the Ionic 5/EV6? IIRR, at least the first is supposed to be sold nationwide, albeit not initially.
 
I have split off-topic discussion (85+ posts) on OBC and charging to a new thread: https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32568

(if I errantly moved your on-topic post into that new thread, please PM me and I'll move it back)
 
Here was a photo caught of the Ariya the other day at a charger. Looks nice.

I'd love to get the Ariya, Q4 Etron, and Ioniq 5 all lined up and compare them in person.



https://insideevs.com/photo/6136201/gmc-hummer-ev-source-ev-eh/
 
Since I went to the effort to move the off-topic charging posts to a new thread (https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=609687#p609687), please don't continue posting more off-topic replies here.
 
While searching for something else, I found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YoNLhbT-WU. Interesting that it's being built at Tochigi. '11 and '12 Leafs for the US market were built in Oppama. JDM Leafs and some non-US markets got Leafs from Oppama for '13+.

I finished watching and wow, this is the most automated assembly I've seen so far. I've seen other companies use robots to install the whole dash but that seems to be rare. I wonder how much of the interior bits being installed by humans was skipped (e.g. seals and trim piece).
 
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