buddyMac
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:29 am
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2019

Carvana - What to Expect

Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:58 pm

A search on Carvana did not produce a post along the lines of this post, but it is quite likely I did not look deep enough. Surely I can't be the first to pursue this.

I recently purchased a 2016 Leaf SV from Carvana. I picked a vehicle with 14000 miles on it and all 12 bars showing ( a rarity I will get into in a minute ). When I checked for the SOH number, it was 83%. Since 85% is roughly the cutoff for 12 bars, it was likely we were there. Within several days, the 12th segment went out. I returned the vehicle, since that was an indication that the vehicle would soon not get the mileage to suit my needs. Not to mention, a battery not treated well.

Since then, Carvana and I have been working through what sort of information needs to be supplied in order to make an intelligent choice. Most of the Leaf vehicles posted on the site do not show the battery capacity bars ( never the SOH number ). They light up the instrument panel on every vehicle enough to get a picture of the mileage, but not enough to show battery bars. All the vehicles show a full instrument panel, most not with the vehicle turned on, strange isn't the word for it. The majority of the time I have to put in a request to get a picture of the full lit instrument panel, and most often, by the time they get back with a picture, if they do at all, the vehicle is gone.

I even went into the need for them to know the SOH when they buy the vehicle in order to price it accurately. They still consider low mileage as a prime reason to price higher, even with no idea of battery capacity. I can understand their problem since most of these are bought at auction coming off lease. They will either continue to be oblivious to what is needed to sell EVs, or they will realize that there are vehicles that they can't price by normal measure. They will eventually get negative push-back from people that realize what Carvana should have been telling them about the battery and expected range. Improve or exit.

So, the strategy I am considering is to concentrate on vehicles with 20 – 25K miles. If they have that many miles and still show 12 bars ( when I can get them ), the chances of advanced battery degradation are less. Since I have no reason to think they will ever try to get a SOH number ( and I have told them how ), I am left with an option that has been offered, even though absurd on its face. One of their selling points is that you have 7 days to return the vehicle for whatever reason. So, several representatives have suggested I buy the vehicle and if I don't like the battery bars, when I see them for the first time after the vehicle has been delivered, I can refuse delivery. You are only allowed 4 returns. By that time you have already paid for the vehicle ( so you get a full refund ) but you have had to get insurance on the vehicle, so that money is lost. Obviously a last choice, if I play that game at all.

I have a choice between picking a vehicle with 12 bars showing ( If they do show, or if I can get them before the vehicle is gone ) and 20 – 25K miles to minimize chances of degradation. Or I can use up my 3 returns left to get something with 12 – 15K miles and just return it if the numbers are ugly. Maybe they would not even have to unload it if the would allow me to check the SOH while still on the truck. They should since the vehicle is already mine at that point.

As for Carvana in general. I like the idea. Customers reps have all been great and offered to do whatever they can. They have passed my concerns to supervisors and teams responsible for representing the vehicles. They all get back to me with the best intentions. Just nothing changes. When I look for Leaf's for sale. Carvana has the most. Carmax has several vs Carvana's 8 to 12. Carmax wants 500 to 700 dollars to transfer them from wherever and they are the same vehicles they have had for months. Carvana just doesn't want to do what is needed to market Evs.

Comments? Is my perspective realistic? Should I just give up and go back to kicking tires, if I can find them?

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13265
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Carvana - What to Expect

Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:08 pm

There have indeed been discussions of Carvana and other online dealers here, but not an in-depth discussion of Carvana specifically. Your problem is fairly common, and will likely remain so, especially with older Leafs and with 2016-2017 Leafs (there is a BMS firmware issue with those, and quite possibly a quality issue as well, that causes them to drop capacity bars early and often). I go into this in my used Leaf buying guide:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Dooglas
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:08 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 314779
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: Carvana - What to Expect

Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:04 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:...…….with 2016-2017 Leafs (there is a BMS firmware issue with those, and quite possibly a quality issue as well, that causes them to drop capacity bars early and often).
That is a strange way to describe the Nissan recall which upgraded the BMS programming and corrected an error in display of range and remaining battery bars.
2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30 - purchased

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13265
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Carvana - What to Expect

Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:03 am

Dooglas wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:...…….with 2016-2017 Leafs (there is a BMS firmware issue with those, and quite possibly a quality issue as well, that causes them to drop capacity bars early and often).
That is a strange way to describe the Nissan recall which upgraded the BMS programming and corrected an error in display of range and remaining battery bars.
The recall/reprogram apparently didn't fix all of the capacity loss issues, although it may have fixed most of them. There is also a higher than typical rate of cell failure in the earlier 2016 builds.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

buddyMac
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:29 am
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2019

Re: Carvana - What to Expect

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:51 pm

I gave up on Carvana, I didn't see any sign they were willing to routinely provide battery bar pictures. Certainly much less an SOH number. I just bought a used one from a conventional dealer.

TheLostPetrol
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:19 am
Delivery Date: 21 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 307105
Location: Greater Chicagoland

Re: Carvana - What to Expect

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:46 pm

buddyMac wrote:I gave up on Carvana, I didn't see any sign they were willing to routinely provide battery bar pictures. Certainly much less an SOH number. I just bought a used one from a conventional dealer.
For comparison, in my experience cargurus(dot com) has always or almost always provided, somewhere among the pictures of a Nissan LEAF, one of the instrument panel showing the capacity bars. They provide no data about SOH or traction battery replacement.

Note: My experience of their web site stopped a little over a year ago when I bought my LEAF.

The issues of capacity bars, SOH, battery replacement and BMS resets are pretty much unique to the LEAF, not generic EV problems. True, a few of the other EVs have non-trivial battery degradation, but not displayed as capacity bars. So, I could understand if Carvana wanted to improve their handling of EVs but not go to any lengths for just one model of one manufacturer.
2018-02-21 Used 2015 LEAF SV Mfd 2014-07 In-serv 2015-02-27
Date mi AHr SOH Hx QC L1/L2
2018-02-21 26,938 60.22 97.0 90.7 1 988
2018-07-01 31,601 58.05 93.5 87.0 11 1223
2018-10-01 35,428 55.63 89.6 82.1 16 1440
2019-08-01 45,923 56.20 90.5 83.3 23 1968

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 881
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Carvana - What to Expect

Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:31 am

Don't waste your time with carvana.
They seem exceptionally useless when it comes to hybrid, plug in hybrid and battery vehicles.
I got mine on ebay.
I was able to get a battery report, was able to confirm it has chademo, nav, tire wear, ect.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 881
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Carvana - What to Expect

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:47 pm

It would appear they think a 2012 with 8 SOH bars at 50,000 miles is worth more than a 2011 with 12 bar battery and a little over 50,000 miles.
Or they can't tell the difference between soc and SOH bars.
We are better off with ebay.
Anyone who has owned a leaf for a week knows way more about them than the whole of carvana.

They can't understand the difference between regular hybrid and plug in hybrid, full electric cars may as well be an alien space craft to them. Just don't even waste your time.

The good news is they appear to be so clueless that they will pay way too much if you are looking to off load a leaf with a severely degraded battery.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

like2bike
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:35 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Mar 2013
Leaf Number: 00581
Location: Long Island, NY

Buying a 2016 LEAF S from Carvana

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:46 pm

I am buying a 2016 LEAF S with 24KWH battery from Carvana. Here are the known battery degradation factors:

Build Date: 10/07/2015 :|
Location: San Francisco bay area :)
Odometer: 22,568 miles :)
Regular dealer service may be a good sign? :?
No cosmetic issues with car. Is this relevant? :lol:

Can anyone provide any guessimates of expected range of SOH. My guess would be 85 to 97%.
I will certainly reject the car if the battery has been particularly abused.

I know ordering from Carvana is a crapshoot. They never show the capacity bars and sometimes it is difficult to even determine if the S-trim has QC.

Here is the listing: https://www.carvana.com/vehicle/1262948
2019 Chevy Bolt LT with DCFC and DC I, II
2016 Leaf S with QC
2013 Leaf S with QC, sold to a friend 8/19
Long Island, NY

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13265
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Carvana - What to Expect

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:58 pm

I have moved your post to this existing topic. If it were me I would have tried to get a photo of the dash while the car was on, but Carvana might not respond. Find out where, climate-wise, it came from, to help manage expectations. These services tend to buy lease returns from mainly hotter climates...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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