Carvana - What to Expect

[LeftieBiker]

Does the reset change the SOH number? How long does it take for the SOH to recalculate?

Yes, it goes to 100%. The amount of time the BMS takes to 're-learn' the actual capacity varies, I believe, with how much the car is driven, although there is probably a time element as well. I'd guess about a month, but if there were two or more bars lost you wouldn't have to wait more than a week or two for one to drop, in all likelihood. As for Carvana not doing resets: probably not, but whoever is "upstream" of them might. Lease returns often go to car auctions, and car auctions are not exactly Hotbeds of Good Citizenship.

 

[like2bike]

Great News. The Carvana LEAF battery capacity is at the high end of my expectation. The SOH was actually trending up on the 2nd day of ownership and after a QC it is, as expected, much better. Here are the numbers from LEAF Spy:

SOH Hx AHr
On delivery: 93.15% 86.65% 57.85
After QC: 96,65% 90.40% 60.02


I did the QC to get another measure of capacity. Here are the results:
15.66 KWH
Displayed SOC change 8-86%
Raw SOC change: 16.2-82.2%

Calculated capacity:
Using Displayed SOC (21.5 KWH?): 93.4%
Using raw SOC (24 KWH): 98.9%

Some minor disappointing issues the car:

• The axle spline sound that my 2013 experienced seems to be present on this car too. TSB NTB12-055E applies to 2016 from what I read elsewhere on the web. They grease the splines, sound is gone but later comes back but not as bad.
  
  The tool kit including tow eye and lug wrench is not in the car. Anyone know if it should be? My 2013 has it. Carvana is looking into getting it for me if it should be with this car.
  
  One rear door has considerable white discoloration on the black plastic. I've seen this before and don't know what causes it or how to fix it. Carvana indicated they would get a detailer to fix it for me.

 

[like2bike]

So I kept the Carvana LEAF. The axle spine TSB was performed by the dealer under warranty. They gave me an argument at first about it being covered under warranty, but of course this is a drive train issue and is covered for 5 years. Carvana is sending me $75 for detailing for the white discoloration on the door interior. I understand this is usually caused by sunscreen contamination and can usually be cleaned. I don't think I am going to get the tool kit. So overall, I'm happy with the Carvana deal, but admittedly Carvana only partially lives up to their name.

Planning on delivering the 2013 LEAF to my friend, who's buying it, today. He is a retired mechanic/engineer/antique-car-owner who always had an interest in alternative fuel cars, but hasn't had one until now.

 

[BakoFlow661]

Bought a 2012 Sl from Carvana without knowing anything about EVs. Sadly i shoulda done my homework as it looks like Carvana didn't. 7 bars at 33,500 miles. 35 miles at 100% battery. Closing price was $10,200 at 18.25% apr. Thought i was getting a deal as they claimed it still had its 80 miles of range. Then later backtracked saying they tested to see it had atleast 60% of its capacity left. I'm left with a 5 yr loan on something that can barely make my commute. Im at a loss.

 

[Evoforce]

Bought a 2012 Sl from Carvana without knowing anything about EVs. Sadly i shoulda done my homework as it looks like Carvana didn't. 7 bars at 33,500 miles. 35 miles at 100% battery. Closing price was $10,200 at 18.25% apr. Thought i was getting a deal as they claimed it still had its 80 miles of range. Then later backtracked saying they tested to see it had atleast 60% of its capacity left. I'm left with a 5 yr loan on something that can barely make my commute. Im at a loss.

Sorry to hear that. Do you have any legal remedy or arbitration?

 

[LeftieBiker]

Bought a 2012 Sl from Carvana without knowing anything about EVs. Sadly i shoulda done my homework as it looks like Carvana didn't. 7 bars at 33,500 miles. 35 miles at 100% battery. Closing price was $10,200 at 18.25% apr. Thought i was getting a deal as they claimed it still had its 80 miles of range. Then later backtracked saying they tested to see it had atleast 60% of its capacity left. I'm left with a 5 yr loan on something that can barely make my commute. Im at a loss.

Isn't there a return period with Carvana? They lied about the range, and I doubt it has 60% of the original range left - more like 50%.


If you do manage to return the car, read this:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662&p=538030

 

[cwerdna]

Bought a 2012 Sl from Carvana without knowing anything about EVs. Sadly i shoulda done my homework as it looks like Carvana didn't. 7 bars at 33,500 miles. 35 miles at 100% battery. Closing price was $10,200 at 18.25% apr. Thought i was getting a deal as they claimed it still had its 80 miles of range. Then later backtracked saying they tested to see it had atleast 60% of its capacity left. I'm left with a 5 yr loan on something that can barely make my commute. Im at a loss.

80 miles? EPA range rating on '12 Leaf with new battery is only 73 miles: https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32154.

If you were near me, I'd sell you my 11 bar (Leaf Spy SOH 81 to 83%) '13 Leaf SV w/premium w/under 66K miles for $6300. I've gotten no new interest at work after dropping the price and mentioning I paid the almost $200 CA registration which is good until late June 2020. It doesn't have CHAdeMO (DC fast charge) inlet though. I'd say it's good for about 60-ish miles in mixed driving in my climate.

Hope you can return your car and get something more suitable. Nobody should be paying $10K for a '12 Leaf. It's not even worth that much with a brand new battery. A 7 bar '12 is worth maybe $4K.

 

[BakoFlow661]

Someone left me with a swipe in a parking lot. Carvana refused to accept the 7 day return. I feel stuck.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Someone left me with a swipe in a parking lot. Carvana refused to accept the 7 day return. I feel stuck.

If it were me, I'd insist that they take the car back after I paid a local body shop to repair the damage. You would still be better off.

 

[cwerdna]

Unfortunately, seems like BakoFlow is another victim of the disturbing trend I pointed out at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=559014#p559014.

Here was another disturbing one in the past 2 weeks: https://www.facebook.com/groups/437741293059829/permalink/1274735149360435/. That guy was looking to buy a 7 bar '12 to use for Uber duties! He seemed to think that it would have either 80 or 150 (!) mile range. Fortunately, everyone who knew anything chimed in and told him not to do it!

 

[BakoFlow661]

Looks like i should have done my homework. I regret my purchase wholeheartedly though i love my leaf. I just wish it had just 10-15 more miles of range. I drive it as economically as i can in 90 degree so-cal weather and get the 35 miles the GOM tells me it is. Don't know what to expect in the colder months though it never gets below 40 where i live.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
If you have the original battery and are in a warm part of So Cal, it had a lousy chemistry so you can expect more rapid degradation vs. better chemistries (e.g. built 4/2013 thru model year '14 or the best one we know of: model year '15 lizard pack).

You really must get Leaf Spy (and the appropriate OBD2 dongle for your phone OS that's compatible w/Leaf Spy) since the '12 has no % SoC display, only the stupid 12 fuel bars and the GOM. The bars aren't granular enough. You can't tell if you're at the top, middle or bottom of a bar and the GOM sucks.

At least w/Leaf Spy, you can see battery gids which are more granular than even %. New 24 kWh battery on a full charge is ~281 gids. My 11 bar '13 Leaf (built 5/2013) reaches maybe 230ish gids on a full charge now.

 

[BakoFlow661]

Stupid carvana rep told me it lived most of it life in Texas (true according to carfax) and that saltwater air was the main cause of degradation and that i had nothing to worry on that part.

 

[cwerdna]

Stupid carvana rep told me it lived most of it life in Texas (true according to carfax) and that saltwater air was the main cause of degradation and that i had nothing to worry on that part.

Ugh! It has nothing to do w/saltwater air but rather the high temps.

Hope others in the market for gen 1 Leafs will see this as a cautionary tale and take a look at the below first:
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=26662
https://www.facebook.com/notes/seattle-nissan-leaf-owners/a-guide-for-buying-a-used-leaf/1100737373291032/

 

[LeftieBiker]

Stupid carvana rep told me it lived most of it life in Texas (true according to carfax) and that saltwater air was the main cause of degradation and that i had nothing to worry on that part.

That was a lie. Saltwater air has NOTHING to do with degradation, and Texas-type heat has a LOT to do with it. If you have that BS claim in writing, you have a case. Using LeafSpy Pro for accurate charge and range readings will buy you maybe another 5-10 miles of usable range. When it gets cold, though, the range will drop, and you will need to add a "Heater Off" switch and sometimes rely on the (hopefully present) heated seats and steering wheel. It will be a struggle to get the 35 miles you get now, when the temp is 40F.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm trying to convince you to go all-out in an effort to get them to take the car back. Offer to pay for the parking lot damage, but be adamant that it must go back, because they willfully misrepresented the range and condition of the battery. One of their sales people is likely still snickering about that lie...


Cwerdna slipped in ahead of me with his post.

 

[BakoFlow661]

Don't have that in writing unfortunately. Have my buddy as a witness to my vehicle dropoff and test drive and could attest to that statement said??? I don't know

 

[LeftieBiker]

Have my buddy as a witness to my vehicle dropoff and test drive and could attest to that statement said??? I don't know

You don't necessarily have enough of a case to win in court, but Carvana depends on positive public opinion. Tell them about posting here, what we have said (mention that this is the biggest Leaf forum in the world), and if your friend will contribute a sworn written statement, that combination may well be enough to get them to take it back.

 

[BakoFlow661]

Update: spoke to a rep who seemed to give a damn finally. Told him about my experience and am having things elevated to higher management plus have a 2017 nissan versa at a comparable price locked in for 3 days while i get things sorted out. Hope to give a good word on Carvana by the end of this. Stay tuned.

 

[LeftieBiker]

We will. I hope you get it taken back.

 

[BakoFlow661]

Carvana is royally pissing me off this morning. 1 hr of phone calls to be told that nothing is to be done in my favor to make the situation right and i'm stuck with them either buying the car back at a huge loss to me or trading in within their system and affixing to their financing (when i picked up my leaf a month ago my minimum down was $200 where it is now $2,200.)

Exploring my options and trying not to punch everything that stands in my way. How has fenix power been sounding to you guys?