Another Leaf or Niro?

My 2019Leaf SL Plus has been at dealer for weeks now trying to get the radio/nav unit to function. I just filed Lemon Law arbitration with the BBB. It meets the Florida LL 30+ days out of service so I’ll be looking for a buyback.

This is our 3rd Leaf the wife loves it. I’m considering alternatives. I test drive a Tesla M3 but getting in and out wasn’t to my liking. Plus reliability reports are not the best.

Florida has very limited EV availability. The Niro EV interests me but I’d have to buy it in GA.

The only credits in FL is the $7500 Federal tax credit which the Leaf and Niro EV qualify for.

Any suggestions on what to do?

I have not looked at the Niro since it is not available in AZ. Personally, I would not buy something that did not have local dealer support. The navigation unit is the only thing I don't like on my 2019 SL Plus--much prefer the older navigation/touchscreen systems. Although I don't care for the navigation system, I have had no trouble with it in over a year and 21k miles (other than it going nuts when I cleaned the screen with alcohol-based eyeglass cleaner wipes). I had to clean the screen with clear water and a soft cloth a couple of times to restore normal touchscreen function and then reprogram all the settings that were corrupted by the random "touches" it interpreted from the capacitance/conductivity of the alcohol-based cleaner--it was weird to watch all the screen jumping like an invisible person was touching the screen.

Since your wife likes the LEAF, take another tax credit and start over with a 2020.

GerryAZ said:

Personally, I would not buy something that did not have local dealer support.

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I'd have similar concerns. If local dealers aren't willing to work on our have no experience w/HyunKia BEVs, service could be problematic. I'd check w/service depts to see what would happen if you brought one in...

In your climate, Niro EV vs LEAF isn't even a competition. Buy a Niro EV.

You might have a hard time getting a Niro EV serviced, but at least you won't have to worry about a cooked battery pack.

LEAF incompetent, rapacious Nissan dealerships are a dime a dozen. Having a Nissan dealership near by is not much of a confidence boost for service unless you know your dealership is competent -- and even then, the competency is usually only one tech who can flee tomorrow.

I went to a Nissan dealership yesterday for windshield wiper tubing and was offered a bag of it for $75.
Lucky for me the guy at the parts desk mentioned that they buy the stuff at NAPA auto parts, where I paid 69 cents a foot.

alozzy said:

In your climate, Niro EV vs LEAF isn't even a competition. Buy a Niro EV.

You might have a hard time getting a Niro EV serviced, but at least you won't have to worry about a cooked battery pack.

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While a Niro meets my requirements better than a LEAF, and I concur about the likelihood of better battery durability with the Niro's TMS pack, the fact that U.S. Niro BEVs have NO CAPACITY WARRANTY would make me pass, in addition to the service issues mentioned.

not enough Niros here to know, but the anecdotal reports are that the early batteries are holding up well. Some report 0 degradation after 50k miles, per dealer battery reports (but that may only be worth as much as saying 12 bars and 5 stars from Nissan).

I have seen a little grumbling on the newer eNiros, so not sure if its just growing pains creating quality issues or just a wider audience.

The lack of a service network would worry me a little during warranty years. I likely would have bought a Niro over a Leaf Plus if available in Chicago last year as our Kias were both very good values with very little mechanical issue and a better range than the Leaf. I pressed our local dealer (we had a Sedona at the time) a few times for likelihood of them coming soon, and the answer was always "at least 2 years away" which is proving to be accurate. While I am guessing I could have gotten them to do tire rotations, they were pretty verbal that they wouldn't do anything else as they didn't have a tech for the car. That is one thing Nissan did reasonably well, is making the csr available and supported nationwide.

Good luck with your decision.

GRA said:

alozzy said:

In your climate, Niro EV vs LEAF isn't even a competition. Buy a Niro EV.

You might have a hard time getting a Niro EV serviced, but at least you won't have to worry about a cooked battery pack.

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While a Niro meets my requirements better than a LEAF, and I concur about the likelihood of better battery durability with the Niro's TMS pack, the fact that U.S. Niro BEVs have NO CAPACITY WARRANTY would make me pass, in addition to the service issues mentioned.

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Ok, but you are in the Bay area. Personally, I wouldn't even consider a LEAF if I lived in Florida, as the OP does.

I am curious is the Bolt available where you are? Have you looked at them? The Bolt also has battery cooling and has good deals.

I also would be hesitant without warranty service available on the Kia.

alozzy said:

GRA said:

alozzy said:

In your climate, Niro EV vs LEAF isn't even a competition. Buy a Niro EV.

You might have a hard time getting a Niro EV serviced, but at least you won't have to worry about a cooked battery pack.

Click to expand...

While a Niro meets my requirements better than a LEAF, and I concur about the likelihood of better battery durability with the Niro's TMS pack, the fact that U.S. Niro BEVs have NO CAPACITY WARRANTY would make me pass, in addition to the service issues mentioned.

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Ok, but you are in the Bay area. Personally, I wouldn't even consider a LEAF if I lived in Florida, as the OP does.

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Parts of the Bay Area get plenty hot (a couple of cities hit 112 over Labor Day weekend), but I wasn't suggesting a LEAF would be a good fit. Both it and the Niro have drawbacks for the long-term: the LEAF will degrade faster but has a capacity warranty, and the Niro slower but doesn't.

As Salyavin suggests I'd recommend the Bolt if it otherwise meets the OP's needs and is available.

If the Niro offered a capacity warranty it would be a different matter. A lot of it comes down to how long the OP plans to keep the car, and how much range they need for that period.

Kia seems to offer a warranty on the pack:

And with 10-year/100,000-mile EV System Warranty, which includes the high-voltage EV battery, the Niro EV offers a class-leading EV warranty in the U.S.

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Source: https://www.kia.com/us/en/ev-faqs

Is the devil in the details? Sounds like you are saying that their warranty only covers failures and not degradation, but I can't find any other details.

alozzy said:

Kia seems to offer a warranty on the pack:

And with 10-year/100,000-mile EV System Warranty, which includes the high-voltage EV battery, the Niro EV offers a class-leading EV warranty in the U.S.

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Source: https://www.kia.com/us/en/ev-faqs

Is the devil in the details? Sounds like you are saying that their warranty only covers failures and not degradation, but I can't find any other details.

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Correct. Per one of our members from north of the border, a capacity warranty is provided for Niros in Canada. See https://www-myev-com.cdn.ampproject...advice/evaluating-electric-vehicle-warranties for a comparison of U.S. warranties.

You can also access the Niro's U.S. warranty online. It's a pity as I generally like the car (beside the lack of AWD), but it implies a hotter U.S. climate is a lot tougher on the battery than a colder climate, just as you'd expect. I sent Kia an email a while back, telling them if they didn't have any confidence in their battery longevity in likely U S. conditions, why would they expect their customers to have any? BTW, Hyundai's the same.

I think the front of the Niro is ugly... But that's just me probably.

Land of EV pack warranties.

I've checked out the Niro Ev a couple times in Palmdale while my leaf was being serviced. The dealers are next to each other.

I liked it. I do agree style seems a bit outdated in the front compared to the kia soul, which was redesigned more recently. The headlights are a good example. But I still liked it.

But isn't it due for a 2021 refresh?

Or the 2021 bolt?