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Nubo
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Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Newbie, 2017 Leaf S, So excited! But why the clueless sales ppl?

Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:06 am

Like other makers I think Nissan will move when the market forces them to move. That they became one of the first-movers seems anomalous behavior for them. I suspect it was by sheer force of their former CEO's insistence that it came about, at a time when he had the power to make it happen. And I wouldn't be surprised if it were over strenuous objections. I've gotten the feeling from the beginning that Nissan was always of two minds about LEAF.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

Lemaign
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2019

Re: Newbie, 2017 Leaf S, So excited! But why the clueless sales ppl?

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:26 pm

Nubo wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:06 am
Like other makers I think Nissan will move when the market forces them to move. That they became one of the first-movers seems anomalous behavior for them. I suspect it was by sheer force of their former CEO's insistence that it came about, at a time when he had the power to make it happen. And I wouldn't be surprised if it were over strenuous objections. I've gotten the feeling from the beginning that Nissan was always of two minds about LEAF.
I could agree with that.

EVs represent a major shift for automakers in ways that didn't seem obvious to me until I began to read about it. They're simpler to build, which should seem like an obvious boon for manufacturing but means that also means there are many positions that would be cut if the company went all-in with EVs. Understandably, that alone already makes them less desirable to many people in these auto companies, who would want to fight against possibly losing their jobs... unless, of course, the company is fully electric-focused from the start and doesn't have any jobs to be lost in the first place.

Battery technology represents another major problem for the auto companies. Many seemingly wanted to just ride public offerings, but it's becoming clear that supply would be an issue, and range (among some other battery-related metrics) is a major selling point that can only be distinguished if the companies have a more EV-focused battery effort. Tesla seemingly understood this from the start, and as such they have a major head start in practically all areas: manufacturing, patents, and so on with batteries. Other companies are now scrambling to try and partner with electronics companies. I read a random post that Nissan has a battery business but had been trying unsuccessfully to sell it... if true, perhaps it represents a drag on the company and one that they have by necessity, again to which they are applying both the accelerator and the brakes (like they seem to be doing with the Leaf).

Lastly, there's risk and investment. When all of these companies were new and small they could do anything. Now they're established, they're large, and they've become pretty good at what they do. Each new generation represented some retooling and refining of previous processes. EVs don't absolutely need to represent starting from scratch, but compared with ICE vehicles it's a pretty major shift requiring some new technologies while dumping others. It seems like many of these companies are caught in the desire to capture the market while also not wanting to be so early to the party that they spend more while losing less. Certainly there's an advantage to waiting for technologies to mature and become more established, and then swooping in to start selling. I suspect companies like Toyota will do just fine in that way, riding on their brand reputation. I don't think they'll be penalized for being late in delivering these types of vehicles. They'll lose out on some sales now (like me; I wanted a fully-electric Prius, and the Leaf was by far the closest thing I could get), but they probably figure that the demand for EVs still isn't large enough to really get those products out right away.

Tesla, being a brand new EV-focused automaker, is much more nimble. All of the EV companies are, really, but Tesla has really been the only one to be viable; Faraday Future and Nio were flashy but seem to be in trouble. Rivian has some strong backing but still has to prove it can deliver. I give Tesla major credit for launching the EV market forward. Without them, people probably would have thought that EVs were just glorified golf carts, and the big automakers would seemingly be content to keep things that way for a good, long while. Tesla has really put these other companies to shame, and it seems like many are finally starting to take things at least a little bit seriously.

powersurge
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Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Newbie, 2017 Leaf S, So excited! But why the clueless sales ppl?

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:45 am

Well, for the many years that I have been researching EVs, the story is the same... The car companies are motivated to sell cars... Gas cars. Salesmen are not paid to be technophiles that study and learn about new technology, so they will not know about the Leaf.

Also, there is no push for car companies to increase inventory and sell EVs. Its like when VHS tapes were king.. When DVDs came in, there was no rush to push DVDs because there was still a ton of money to be made in tapes, that everyone had.

The EV is INCOMPATIBLE with the business goals of a car company.. The whole world is tooled to support the gas car, and there is a whole economy dependent on the gasoline car. First, gas companies do not want EVs. Car repair, maintenance, and parts businesses do not want EVs. What would happen to the world economy when you don't need oil changes, muffler shops, transmission, and engine repair places?

The EV is a danger to the world economy because it will knock out a whole sector of income to the people of the world. When does anyone today need record store, TV repair, vcr rental stores, or pay phones on every corner. That is why car dealers do not know about EVs. They are the "loss leaders" that no one wants but have to tolerate, just like your loser relative that you have to tolerate at holiday family dinners... They are part of the "family"...

PS -AFTERTHOUGHT - You know when car dealers know everything about EVs??? When something happens in the middle east and gas goes to $6 per gallon... I saw it in the 1970s---- Almost overnight after the gasoline crisis, gas guzzling cars were being traded into dealers. And most unbelievably, the Ford Pinto and Chevy Vega became kings of the car dealerships..

User avatar
Nubo
Posts: 5461
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Newbie, 2017 Leaf S, So excited! But why the clueless sales ppl?

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:16 am

powersurge wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:45 am
... What would happen to the world economy when you don't need oil changes, muffler shops, transmission, and engine repair places?...
More efficient allocation of resources. Isn't that a good thing for the economy? Efficient markets, etc? Not saying that it won't be disruptive, but the end result should be more prosperity, not less.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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