maui1
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:29 am
Delivery Date: 26 Mar 2013
Leaf Number: 400459
Location: Maui, Hawaii

Leaf black box?

Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:50 pm

We are getting our two leased model S 2013 Leaf cars next Tues and excited. I just heard a story on NPR this afternoon about car "black boxes" - supposedly 90% of new cars have these and efforts are underway to make them mandatory. The function to record key operations and be accessible for retrievable after a car crash, comparable to the unit in airplanes.

Does anyone know if this is present in our Leaf? A little creepy, but perhaps helpful to have the information on acceleration / braking available leading up to an accident - but as with all things big brother a little disturbing and open for unnecessary probing by others - e.g. insurance companies.

Anyone know or have comments on the idea?

Aloha!
2013 Nissan Leaf Model S 3.3 kw charger - Lease 24 mos. brilliant silver - and my other half
2013 Nissan Leaf Model S 3.3 kw charger - Lease 24 mos. black
1st 2013s on Maui!

User avatar
iamwjh
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:08 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Dec 2012
Leaf Number: 020318
Location: Clearwater, Florida

Re: Leaf black box?

Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:10 pm

I think you are writing about Event Data Recorders.
Unlike Flight Deck Recorders, that keep track of at least 88 parameters and retain the most recent 30 minutes of pilots' conversation, the primary purpose of an EDR is to assess automotive safety hardware; specifically, to gauge the efficacy of airbags and their deployment strategies. Succinctly, if an airbag doesn't go off, the EDR has nothing to report.

If an airbag deploys, though, a typical EDR may record pre-crash vehicle speed, driver inputs of accelerator or brake, the nature of the crash, seatbelt use/airbag action and any automatic post-crash activity such as collision notification.

By contrast, an automotive EDR stores vehicle and occupant information in that brief period (seconds, not minutes) before, during and after airbag deployment. Like a 15-second data spool being continuously monitored and—only in the event of a serious crash—being captured in memory, typically part of airbag-management electronics.

Does your car have an EDR? Check the owner's manual. Even those without EDRs will typically have a statement noting this.

Based on the information I found during the few minutes I spent searching this on an obscure web portal called, "Google", I believe that "The Nissan LEAF is equipped with several data recorders:
-A data recorder for diagnosing repairs
-An Event Data Recorder (EDR) that records data in crash or near crash situations, such as an air bag deployment or hitting a road obstacle. The EDR records data related to vehicle dynamics and safety systems for a short period of time, typically 30 seconds or less.
-Telematics and recorded vehicle data for features, analysis, and research.

The Nissan LEAF records data concerning various vehicle systems, location, driving performance, and operating conditions. Some of this data is transmitted to Nissan through the vehicle onboard telematics system. Without your consent, the vehicle will de-activate the vehicle telematics system in your vehicle, and certain features, including all telematics, of your vehicle will not operate as intended."

I hope you find this information useful.
EXCELLENT!

bmont
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:54 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 006174
Location: Portugal

Re: Leaf black box?

Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:49 am

Any way to acess the Leaf "Black Box" and this kind of information? I need to know some Acelleration, Brakes Data information before a crash.

powersurge
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Leaf black box?

Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:44 am

good luck

ducky8888
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:14 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Jan 2019
Leaf Number: 303911

Re: Leaf black box?

Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:41 pm

I was involved in a read end accident recently where the woman behind me swerved to avoid hitting, but ended up clipping the right side of my car with the left side of hers. When she got home her hubby looked at the damage and told her to tell the insurance company that I had been merging during the accident and thats why the damage is off center. In reality my car was stopped, steering wheel straight, fully in the lane of stop and go traffic for over a minute when the accident happened. $12,000 worth of damage later (to my car alone) and my insurance company has no interest in getting the EDR data. I have spoken to dealerships and they say that the data is ONLY able to be pulled by the factory if they want the information to find out what happened to make sure the car performed as it should have (basically as a CYA device). In doing my own research and talking to the body shop there are computers out there that will retrieve the data from the EDR, one I know of is by Bosch, but the license fee is over $2000. Typically the only ones who bother buying it are law enforcement agencies so they can reconstruct accidents when major accidents occur, such as in the case of when a death occurs. In the 2018 and 2019 models the recorded data is limited to 30 seconds and pulls information from all sensors.

In my case, air bags were not deployed, so the likelihood that data was recorded is not very high.

baustin
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: Leaf black box?

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:41 am

ducky8888 wrote:I was involved in a read end accident recently where the woman behind me swerved to avoid hitting, but ended up clipping the right side of my car with the left side of hers. When she got home her hubby looked at the damage and told her to tell the insurance company that I had been merging during the accident and thats why the damage is off center. In reality my car was stopped, steering wheel straight, fully in the lane of stop and go traffic for over a minute when the accident happened. $12,000 worth of damage later (to my car alone) and my insurance company has no interest in getting the EDR data. I have spoken to dealerships and they say that the data is ONLY able to be pulled by the factory if they want the information to find out what happened to make sure the car performed as it should have (basically as a CYA device). In doing my own research and talking to the body shop there are computers out there that will retrieve the data from the EDR, one I know of is by Bosch, but the license fee is over $2000. Typically the only ones who bother buying it are law enforcement agencies so they can reconstruct accidents when major accidents occur, such as in the case of when a death occurs. In the 2018 and 2019 models the recorded data is limited to 30 seconds and pulls information from all sensors.

In my case, air bags were not deployed, so the likelihood that data was recorded is not very high.
Did the police respond? Was an accident report filled out? Did you take any pictures of the scene?

Where I live, you are 'at fault' if you hit another vehicle from behind.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

ducky8888
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:14 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Jan 2019
Leaf Number: 303911

Re: Leaf black box?

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:41 am

baustin wrote:
ducky8888 wrote:I was involved in a read end accident recently where the woman behind me swerved to avoid hitting, but ended up clipping the right side of my car with the left side of hers. When she got home her hubby looked at the damage and told her to tell the insurance company that I had been merging during the accident and thats why the damage is off center. In reality my car was stopped, steering wheel straight, fully in the lane of stop and go traffic for over a minute when the accident happened. $12,000 worth of damage later (to my car alone) and my insurance company has no interest in getting the EDR data. I have spoken to dealerships and they say that the data is ONLY able to be pulled by the factory if they want the information to find out what happened to make sure the car performed as it should have (basically as a CYA device). In doing my own research and talking to the body shop there are computers out there that will retrieve the data from the EDR, one I know of is by Bosch, but the license fee is over $2000. Typically the only ones who bother buying it are law enforcement agencies so they can reconstruct accidents when major accidents occur, such as in the case of when a death occurs. In the 2018 and 2019 models the recorded data is limited to 30 seconds and pulls information from all sensors.

In my case, air bags were not deployed, so the likelihood that data was recorded is not very high.
Did the police respond? Was an accident report filled out? Did you take any pictures of the scene?

Where I live, you are 'at fault' if you hit another vehicle from behind.
Police will not respond to a fender bender, they dont even respond to things like theft (even for trailers valued at over $4000) and petty crime. They just say to file a report online and contact insurance to cover the loss. Lots of pictures. I have to let the insurance company handle the claim with her insurance and hopefully there is enough evidence in my favor.

I see you are in Nevada, and I dont know how the laws work there, but you might want to make sure you are 100% correct about how rear end collisions work. Most people here in CA say the same thing, and for the most part, you are right. BUT, not always is the person in the rear at fault. There are many instances where the person in front could be partially, if not wholly at fault. For example, I have gotten in discussions where people have said they will use a "brake check" to get someone to stop tailgating them. One guy in particular was adamant that even if he got hit he would just claim there was a an animal in the road. I tried to convince the guy, even sending links to laws and legal websites which show that if you slam on your brakes and are rear ended, you WILL be held at least partially liable. The other instance where the person in front can be held liable is when performing an unsafe merge, for example if there isnt enough room to squeeze in, or or if you merge in front of a vehicle going at a faster rate of speed, i.e if you are going 45 and merge in front of a car on the freeway going 65.

In the accident I was in, the lady is claiming I merged unsafely. Because the damage on both cars is offset, 1/4 of the right side f my car and about 1/4 of the left side of her car, the damage shows either I was merging or she swerved. So it can go either way. Luckily I have a couple pieces of evidence that help my case, like a skid mark WAY off to the right which shows her car was not in the lane and steering to the right. I am also hoping they can make the connection that before I knew she was going to lie I reported to both insurance companies that she had a passenger in the front seat, yet she will not give the person's name and contact info as a witness.

kelvin6
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:56 am
Delivery Date: 03 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 413920

Re: Leaf black box?

Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:08 pm

I will put my information in. I was involved in a major collision (three sides of the Leaf was hit), where I was struck from the driver side door, which propelled my Leaf into a light pole. The car that hit me did a 180 and smacked the rear of the Leaf. I kept the damaged Leaf for analysis in case of a lawsuit (against me or me suing the other party). What I discovered:

- Most dealerships (perhaps the service writers) do not understand or have sufficient knowledge of the "black box" and how to access it. Nissan support was of no help.
- I had to hire a accident reconstruction engineering firm to actually pull data from the black box.
- The Bosch CDR tool was used to pull the data. This can be done via the OBDII port or directly from the box itself.
https://www.boschdiagnostics.com/cdr/

- The black box is actually the airbag controller that sits under the center console (or storage cubby). The unit itself is a Bosch unit. Prior to junking the Leaf, I removed the airbag controller unit and kept it safe just in case.

- The airbag controller unit stores: DTCs (any error codes at the time of data retrieval), how many times the car has been turned on AFTER the crash (presumably for vehicle tampering), whether or not the driver or passenger seatbelt were buckled at the time of collision, it also contains an accelerometers to determine crash impact forces, etc.

- The Leaf stores about 5 seconds of pre-crash data. It can sample data at 2 times per second. The data it that it tracks are, speed (as sensed by the car's speedometer), accelerator pedal position (how much % full you were pressing it), engine RPM (but that's not relevant here), motor RPM, brake pedal being pressed or not (it senses via the brake pedal switch), and the steering input (how many degrees have you turned the steering wheel left or right).

- The data from the Bosch CDR gets put into a very detailed report. Not exactly easy to understand without some level of interpretation. For instance, I had the accident reconstruction engineer take the data and compile it with my dashcam footage and we determined that I was struck at approximately 32mph into my driver side in my accident. Not something I could easily figure out with the data and without the math and engineering background. This was information was critical, because the police report from my accident says the other vehicle slowed down prior to entering the intersection and hitting me, while witnesses say otherwise.

- To pull the data and reconstruct the accident can easily cost into the thousands of dollars. All I had the engineering firm to do was just to pull and run the basic math to see the speed I was hit at was already nearly $1000. I can see why many insurance companies won't want to do the crash data retrieval, unless the accident was trivial or there was major injury or death that resulted. Likewise, pulling the data in a accident can help you refute claims against you. If it was a serious accident, find a accident reconstruction engineering firm to pull the data immediately. If you cannot, find someone to help you remove the airbag controller and preserve it (do not drop the unit). It lives under the center console storage area. I was able to remove it myself in under 15 minutes. Beware of sharp edges on the mounting plate the unit is attached to.

Thats what I know.
2013 Blue Leaf S with 11/12 bars and purple HOV stickers!
10/10/2018


RIP 2013 Silver Leaf S 59500 miles with 11/12 bars
3/1/2018-6/29/2018

powersurge
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Leaf black box?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:01 am

I recently called a new insurance price for my car. They gave me an OK (not great) price, but told me that to get that rate I had to allow them to put a sensor on my OBDII to monitor my driving....

I said thanks, and hung up...

TheBruce
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:46 am
Delivery Date: 05 Feb 2019
Leaf Number: 038877

Re: Leaf black box?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:32 am

Had a similar experience a few years back. My car was stopped and hit in the right side by a truck that pulled up from the side of the road. The truck driver claimed he was simply parked by the side of the road and that I was the one who hit him. Apparently his insurance completely believed his story and they threatened that if I pursued the matter they would report me for insurance fraud. I can still feel the outrage I felt at that time.

My car didn't have a black box so I had no way of proving the truth. An expert from my insurance looked at the photos and determined it was impossible to determine who had hit who. I then turned to a lawyer. He found an expert who made a more thorough investigation of the damage. He was able to determine that, based on the angles of the damage at the first point of contact, it was far more likely that I was the one who had been standing still. He even found a visible circular scratch on my car at the exact height of the wheel nuts of the truck, which proved that the truck's wheel must have been in motion. Even after that the other insurance refused to pay up, saying that the evidence was compelling but not conclusive. They did however no longer threaten to report me for insurance fraud.

The lawyer came in handy at that time since he threatened to take the matter to court and let a judge decide. After which it took about a week for the money to land in my account (with interest).

From that moment on, I've never travelled a single kilometer again in a car without a dashcam.

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