Learjet
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:04 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Mar 2020
Leaf Number: 309454
Location: Louisiana, USA

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sun May 17, 2020 11:20 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:15 am

I had no charges to 100%, 0 fast charges and maybe 1000 miles since the last adjustment due to lockdown.

So confounded to say the least. Let’s see how the summer goes.
maybe the charges to 100% and fast charging is not at bad on these packs as previously thought?

https://youtu.be/QRPze4f0gsQ
2019 Nissan Leaf SL Plus

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14815
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sun May 17, 2020 1:02 pm

GerryAZ wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 6:40 am
cwerdna wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 8:36 pm
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 6:56 pm
It doesn’t seem like heat is nearly as bad on the newer chemistry.
Are you talking about apparent capacity loss?

If so, Leaf Plus hasn't been out nearly long enough. It took (IIRC), two summers in hot clients for '11 and '12 Leafs to show capacity loss in the form of capacity bars gone. Back then, Leaf Spy didn't exist.

Leaf Plus has been shipping not much more than a year and Leaf in the US has been getting its butt kicked by Tesla in terms of EV sales. And, many more EV/PHEV choices are on the market now than back then.
My 2011 dropped down to 10 capacity bars after about 12 months and down to 8 bars after a little over 2 years. The 2015 was MUCH better, but was at 8 bars with several weak cells when I traded it in after 4-1/2 years and 82,436 miles. It is too soon to tell for the 2019, but initial indications for the 62 kWh battery look fairly good based on Leaf Spy readings after 9 months and 16,185 miles: AHr=171.35, SOH=97.15%, HX=111.52% (initial readings on 8/11/2019 at 64 miles were 175.15, 99.29%, and 98.19% respectively). (171.35/175.15)*100=97.8% of original capacity. The first two 90-day adjustments were small increases, but the last one was a decrease in April. That decrease may be due to fewer miles per day with less freeway driving and more days between charges since I started teleworking in early March.
I think your case is going to be quite telling. Although you missed most of the Summer, we all know that Phoenix Summers go far beyond what the calendar says. Its interesting your first two adjustments went up. Your stats are quite a bit higher than anyone else's I have seen. Everyone else seems to be hovering around 95% despite as much as 6 months difference in time of ownership.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2490
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sun May 17, 2020 2:08 pm

My charging and use patterns may be different than others in that I typically charge fully overnight and then drive the car several days until the remaining range is less than I anticipate needing the next day. Therefore, the battery gets cycled through most of its SOC range each charge cycle. Also, the 62 kWh battery has enough range to help me avoid the expense of DCQC. I have only used DCQC's three times and could have avoided the first two if I had not wanted to experiment with DCQC. Since charging time for the larger battery is longer, there have been times when the overnight charges did not complete by the time I was ready to leave the next morning so the charging was stopped early. In those cases, the SOC was still around 90% on the dash display and the range was adequate for a couple days. I never park for extended time with high SOC so parking at the airport or my office for out-of-town trips is always at less than 80% (usually lower).

I did not change my charging pattern when my daily mileage dropped starting in early March so the car sits at higher SOC the first couple days after each charge. I wonder if this may have contributed to the drop for the April adjustment or if the drop was due to less freeway driving and less frequent charging.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14815
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sun May 17, 2020 4:03 pm

GerryAZ wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 2:08 pm
My charging and use patterns may be different than others in that I typically charge fully overnight and then drive the car several days until the remaining range is less than I anticipate needing the next day. Therefore, the battery gets cycled through most of its SOC range each charge cycle. Also, the 62 kWh battery has enough range to help me avoid the expense of DCQC. I have only used DCQC's three times and could have avoided the first two if I had not wanted to experiment with DCQC. Since charging time for the larger battery is longer, there have been times when the overnight charges did not complete by the time I was ready to leave the next morning so the charging was stopped early. In those cases, the SOC was still around 90% on the dash display and the range was adequate for a couple days. I never park for extended time with high SOC so parking at the airport or my office for out-of-town trips is always at less than 80% (usually lower).

I did not change my charging pattern when my daily mileage dropped starting in early March so the car sits at higher SOC the first couple days after each charge. I wonder if this may have contributed to the drop for the April adjustment or if the drop was due to less freeway driving and less frequent charging.
Good question. It almost seems like the drop is more an evaluation of our driving/charging habits.

** You drive a lot so charge to full several times a week. Low degradation (even increase in stats)
** Drive less but still charge to full. Car feels you don't need that much charge so it "penalizes" you

On my two adjustments; the driving was completely different. Picked up car in November. Drove little averaging under 1000 miles a month. Almost all DC charging but only twice a week. Adjustment; over 2½% loss.

Next Quarter starts out the same but then, road trips get mixed in and a bit more home charging. I start labor share which is just under 100 miles 4 days a week (4 weeks of this before adjustment) with DC charging every work day. adjustment; 1.2% so less than half the loss.

This Quarter; Only a little of the Nissan perks left so will flipping to mostly AC charging (unless the country really opens up which I am not expecting this early) So another Quarter with a significant change in charging/driving habits.

But then again; could all be coincidence
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1674
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu May 21, 2020 2:36 pm

Have you all seen this website?

https://www.ecalc.ch/evcalc.php

I love how it breaks out your energy usage (drag, rolling resistance, etc..). Assuming its pretty accurate, it gives you a good idea of the relative suggested range of the different EVs at different speeds.
2019 S Plus (98.6% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.6% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh

Astros
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:21 am
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2018
Leaf Number: 310136
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Fri May 22, 2020 1:39 pm

Astros wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:39 pm
My fifth adjustment finished recently, and was by far the smallest yet. I've had my Leaf+ for a little over a year now and have just under 15K miles on the odometer, and am at 95.5% SOH according to LeafSpy.

Adjustments and weeks from ownership:
8 week 1 aHr
20 week 1.3 aHr
33 week 1.37 aHr (I probably just didn't catch this one exactly when it happened)
44 week 0.25 aHr
56 week 0.05 aHr
Apparently I mis-timed my capacity drops, because when I checked today I saw my biggest drop yet. That last drop was really 1.6aHr, not 0.05! We're driving much less lately and I only check LeafSpy every two weeks, so I must have just missed it the last time. Sadly, this now puts me at 94.5% SOH at exactly 15,000 miles, a whole percent worse than I had thought.
2019 Deep Blue SL Plus

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 14882
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Fri May 22, 2020 2:02 pm

Don't think about the miles on the odometer, as they seem irrelevant to SOH. Think about time only. You seem to be at about average for SOH over time.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1674
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Fri May 22, 2020 3:26 pm

Astros,

My SOH and time with the car is pretty identical. I am believing more and more this is algorithm at work, and less actual SOH.
2019 S Plus (98.6% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.6% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh

Astros
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:21 am
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2018
Leaf Number: 310136
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sat May 23, 2020 1:08 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:26 pm
Astros,

My SOH and time with the car is pretty identical. I am believing more and more this is algorithm at work, and less actual SOH.
Yes, I think so too. Especially since so many Leafs in different locations are showing exactly the same behavior. I think it will be very interesting to see what the reported SOH is when the first Leaf+'s start losing their first bar.
2019 Deep Blue SL Plus

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14815
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sat May 23, 2020 1:32 pm

Astros wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:08 pm
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:26 pm
Astros,

My SOH and time with the car is pretty identical. I am believing more and more this is algorithm at work, and less actual SOH.
Yes, I think so too. Especially since so many Leafs in different locations are showing exactly the same behavior. I think it will be very interesting to see what the reported SOH is when the first Leaf+'s start losing their first bar.
I have to agree. I am not a proponent of tracking my true range by charging to full and running the pack to near dead so I don't have that baseline to check but wondering if that would even work. The question now becomes is the algorithm hiding a portion of the capacity? If so, then why? TBH; I wouldn't have any of these questions if "all" of us were in lockstep on degradation rates but then we have Gerry who stands alone with a significantly (not really but when one percent is perceived as Earth shattering as we LEAFers tend to you...well, you know :roll: ) lower rate of degradation under the worst possible conditions; full charging, not charging daily and living in Phoenix.

Everything he does "should" not be good. But in his defense; LEAF packs have demonstrated good hardiness when driven hard. Recently at WELL over 150,000 miles, A Washingtonian lost his "first" capacity bar on his 2015. It would appear that his rate of degradation was very low until he was up around 150,000 miles (had SOH still over 90%) then it accelerated quite a bit losing his first bar at 155,280 miles.

All things equal, Gerry could lose his first bar at well over 300,000 miles. Now if we look at "lighter" drivers, we have another Washingtonian who was driving a 2015 as well losing his first bar at 92,000 miles. His usage was in the average range at 17,000 miles a year. So us lighter users could see us losing our first bars at 200,000 miles or so. Expect even lighter users to have less mileage when that bar drops. So we are starting to see a baseline on the 2015's anyway. I am guessing we are still one or two years away from seeing that same line on 40 kwh packs so we have a long way to go.

Now what we don't have is LEAF Spy history on either of the two LEAFers mentioned above. The first LEAFer only started posting his stats regularly when he was at 130,000 or so miles? (The earliest post I could find was him at 92% SOH @ 141,000 but semi sure he had posted earlier)

Finally; we all know that battery stats wandering upwards is not really possible at least not in the way the earlier LEAF packs reacted. It was an obvious programming error causing the bouncy readings which was quite dramatically addressed starting with the 40 kwh packs. So everything was hunky dory until a year in, our "declining like clockwork" stats went up. Sometimes dramatically.

IOW; Despite the great progress Nissan has made, its still a work in progress.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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