Adding a Brusa charger under the hood for '11/'12s

[JeremyW]

I can visualize a really nice fabrication of a new "valve cover" to hold the charger.

I'll be happy to fabricate the aluminum adapter plate. I have some 6061-T6 AL in various thicknesses just waiting.

Awesome! Thanks Tony! Looks like this could become a nice upgrade path for for the '11s and '12s.

I suspect the high voltage connectors are made by Yazaki. Currently searching through their parts catalog here.

 

[JeremyW]

My Brusa came in. No connectors were supplied. Will have to email the seller to see if they are available. Otherwise I'm going to see if evmotorverks will sell me a harness ($200).

The charger is heavy and looks really well built. Wonder what a leaf tech will say when he opens the hood and sees this red box sitting there:

The adventure continues...

 

[JeremyW]

Found another site with information on the Brusa: http://www.metricmind.com/downloads-3/charger-library/

For cabling, Metric Mind sells 'virgin' cables that are just the connectors standard for the brusa on one end, and bare ends on the other. The cost is $135 for Mains Cable + $135 Batt Cable + $35 Ampseal Connector = $305 plus shipping.
See price list here: http://www.metricmind.com/price-list/

EVTV is selling cables (here) that were designed for the Azure Dynamics eTransit Connect. I am leaning going with them, as their harness is $200 for the Mains and batt cables, and the mains already has a J1772 connector on it, this is good for testing. After I've spliced into the mains I can use the connector to make up a J1772 -> 2x L6-20 splitter.

I have emailed EVTV to see if they will also sell me a Ampseal connector. Once I have one of those I can wire it up for RS232 and at least verify my Brusa is alive (all that's needed to power up the smarts is a 12v connection).

 

[Luft]

That's going to be a challenge! I'm not sure if there's room for a second one under the hood. You may need to motify your hood. :shock:

That's kind of amusing if you think about it. Our EVs would start to look like hot rods. It gives a whole new meaning to "Super Charger!" :lol:

 

[KillaWhat]

Well, I guess I jut committed to this now.
Purchased (ordered) a set of the Azure Dynamics eTransit Connect cables.
I like that they are already made up on the Charger end.

I'm having service work done on a leaking right front strut in a few days, and after that, I guess I'll start looking at what needs to happen under the hood to mount this.
Looking to some of you to figure out the interface connectors/ cabling (love to be able to just unplug this if need be).

Keep me posted.

 

[marcucci]

My question is- how do we know the BCM will request more than 3.3KW (or stock) charging? From the posts here it seems that the thought is that the BCM will request and accept more than a 3.3KW charger will allow.

If I'm reading that wrong, and this is intended to "overlay" the existing charging, do we not think that the BCM will monitor charge current and error out over the higher output? Or is the intention to spoof all the controls associated with charging?

 

[davewill]

... If I'm reading that wrong, and this is intended to "overlay" the existing charging, do we not think that the BCM will monitor charge current and error out over the higher output? Or is the intention to spoof all the controls associated with charging?

We basically have Ingineer's (the guy who's done two of these, but isn't talking) statement that it does.

 

[marcucci]

We basically have Ingineer's (the guy who's done two of these, but isn't talking) statement that it does.

Does anyone know why he isn't talking?

The only thing I can assume is that the BCM isn't limited in it's request for higher current and it takes whatever it gets. It would be up to the on-board charger to limit to it's available current. Replace the on-board and it would work. Assuming there aren't hooks in the system from a supervisory standpoint that would otherwise limit current or freak out and flag errors if more current is seen than the stock on-board can supply.

Is enough understood already about the CAN commands to know how the BCM asks for current? I would think the rest of it is just a matter of the physical layer.

Edit: Makes me wonder if it's possible then to just swap to an OEM 2013 6KW on-board charger. With mechanical mods... I am sure that the physical mounting has changed.

 

[DaveEV]

My question is- how do we know the BCM will request more than 3.3KW (or stock) charging? From the posts here it seems that the thought is that the BCM will request and accept more than a 3.3KW charger will allow.

From DoxyLover's post in another thread:

Since Phil hasn't piped up about details, I'll report what he told me. Any mis-information is probably my fault, not Phil's.

His charger is hooked into the CAN bus, listening to the BMS. The BMS turn charging on and off and also regulates the charge rate (power). Through most of the charge cycle, the BMS is requesting much more than the standard on-board charger can supply. The add-on takes the value supplied the the BMS, subtracts the 3.3KW supplied by the OBC, and supplies the remaining demand, up to its own limit.

As the battery nears full, the BMS tapers the requested power down to, and below the OBC's 3.3KW. As this happens, the add-on charger automatically tapers down and then turns off.

In addition, I believe he's monitoring the J1772 pilot signal and subtracting off the 16A draw from the OBC to limit the add-on so that both chargers together obey the pilot signal limit.

It's really clever and, IMHO, done right.

A later post from BetterLeaf notes that it should also be possible to integrate the Brusa without having to tie into the CAN bus using it in "Booster" mode:

I've found the manual of a predecessor of the same series:
http://www.brusa.biz/fileadmin/Diverses/Download/Manuals/NLG5xx_179_ab_Nr25.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The cool thing is that it includes a booster mode where it tracks the current drawn by any 3rd party on-board charger and then matches its output to that. It also generates a new pilot signal for the on-board charger.

So the manual suggests that you just need to loop it into J1772 inlet. It needs L1, L2( or N), ground and the pilot and connect it to 400V EV battery and the 12V battery. And the unit will do the rest.

No additional circuit or connection to the CAN is required!

 

[KillaWhat]

This is sounding better and better.

I ordered the aluminum for my mounting plate today
(I'd love tony to make me one, but we are 2900 miles apart).

Looking for some hard data on where and how to parallel onto the input and output wiring in the leaf.

Looking at the picture of Phil's install, the HV output wiring dives right through the mounting plate by way of a gland and into the inverter area.

The input wiring heads down, I'm assuming to parallel into the feed from the J1772 where it meet a "plug" right there below the front of the housing.

Doesn't anyone know Phil well enough to pursued him to give us the benefit of his considerable wisdom?
(Or.... Get him drunk and convince him to spill? I'll chip in for the drinks)

 

[EVDRIVER]

No way is anyone going to swap the 6kw charger form a 2013 into a 2012, there are easier ways to do this. Secondly, If Phil is looking to make a possible charger kit does anyone expect him to give step by step directions? Some common sense and courtesy would be appropriate here. This project reminds me a long time ago of when everyone understated how long it took and cost to do an EV conversion and then a guy posted all his ACTUAL time records and parts costs. I expect some white lies on this project about the actual time and cost to do this. I am surprised people are buying chargers before they have the complete strategy for implementation. I also hope that anyone that attempts this is very experienced in HV work and very skilled because one can easily damage some very expensive parts doing this, not to mention get hurt. This is not 240V.

 

[91040]

I would be happy to support Phil's business if he had a product. Asked to purchase this the same day Phil posted about it. It was not available, it is still not available. How long should we wait? Your cautions are valid but others have the ability to do this.

Hope you are enjoying your 6.6.

No way is anyone going to swap the 6kw charger form a 2013 into a 2012, there are easier ways to do this. Secondly, If Phil is looking to make a possible charger kit does anyone expect him to give step by step directions? Some common sense and courtesy would be appropriate here. This project reminds me a long time ago of when everyone understated how long it took and cost to do an EV conversion and then a guy posted all his ACTUAL time records and parts costs. I expect some white lies on this project about the actual time and cost to do this. I am surprised people are buying chargers before they have the complete strategy for implementation. I also hope that anyone that attempts this is very experienced in HV work and very skilled because one can easily damage some very expensive parts doing this, not to mention get hurt. This is not 240V.

 

[marcucci]

No way is anyone going to swap the 6kw charger form a 2013 into a 2012, there are easier ways to do this. Secondly, If Phil is looking to make a possible charger kit does anyone expect him to give step by step directions? Some common sense and courtesy would be appropriate here. This project reminds me a long time ago of when everyone understated how long it took and cost to do an EV conversion and then a guy posted all his ACTUAL time records and parts costs. I expect some white lies on this project about the actual time and cost to do this. I am surprised people are buying chargers before they have the complete strategy for implementation. I also hope that anyone that attempts this is very experienced in HV work and very skilled because one can easily damage some very expensive parts doing this, not to mention get hurt. This is not 240V.

I haven't found any 2013 parts information online but I recall the 2012 charger to be around $3600 from Nissan. I'm sure the 2013 isn't far off from that given that it's made stateside. Given the cost of the Brusa and other efforts to potentially make a CAN bridge, I am guessing replacing the OE charger may not be that far off cost-wise. I know it was moved up front but would hope that the guts would be retrofittable to the 2012. My bigger concern would be the communications, I am still surprised there's not a secondary monitor of the charger/battery current to make sure there isn't more current available than the supplied on-board charger can produce.

I agree with the concerns on the HV bus, ESPECIALLY if the Brusa is just paralleled with the existing on-board. That's some frightening stuff. I am sure the Brusa is built to withstand some abuse but when you're talking about this voltage and current I would not want to attempt just tying those outputs together and hope the OE on-board is tolerant of an additional supply being paralleled to it.

My thought on the 2013 OE charger is that if the 2012 BCM requests more current than the OE on-board can supply, and there is no secondary/supervisory control, the 2013 on-board may be plug and play (electrically), and leave only mechanical mounting and cable upgrades to solve. The latter I think are relatively simple. Chances are the 2013 on-board is not even in the parts pipeline yet, though, and won't be for a while.

Does anyone have any under-hood shots of the 2013 or the new charger mounting location?

 

[EVDRIVER]

I would be happy to support Phil's business if he had a product. Asked to purchase this the same day Phil posted about it. It was not available, it is still not available. How long should we wait? Your cautions are valid but others have the ability to do this.

Hope you are enjoying your 6.6.

No way is anyone going to swap the 6kw charger form a 2013 into a 2012, there are easier ways to do this. Secondly, If Phil is looking to make a possible charger kit does anyone expect him to give step by step directions? Some common sense and courtesy would be appropriate here. This project reminds me a long time ago of when everyone understated how long it took and cost to do an EV conversion and then a guy posted all his ACTUAL time records and parts costs. I expect some white lies on this project about the actual time and cost to do this. I am surprised people are buying chargers before they have the complete strategy for implementation. I also hope that anyone that attempts this is very experienced in HV work and very skilled because one can easily damage some very expensive parts doing this, not to mention get hurt. This is not 240V.

Anyone can do what they what of course but they should not ask for details about a potential product a company may make, regardless of when or ever, this puts people in an uncomfortable positon at times. Because someone has not produced a product does not mean they should disclose their intelectual capital, If business did this they would fold over night. Regardless, over the course of this forum Phil has shared more info than most business ever would. My point is people should not expect him to provide such information on everything, its basic common sense and courtesy. I think his sharing of info over time has helped many people here but unfortunately some have come to expect certain information as if its expected.

 

[EVDRIVER]

No way is anyone going to swap the 6kw charger form a 2013 into a 2012, there are easier ways to do this. Secondly, If Phil is looking to make a possible charger kit does anyone expect him to give step by step directions? Some common sense and courtesy would be appropriate here. This project reminds me a long time ago of when everyone understated how long it took and cost to do an EV conversion and then a guy posted all his ACTUAL time records and parts costs. I expect some white lies on this project about the actual time and cost to do this. I am surprised people are buying chargers before they have the complete strategy for implementation. I also hope that anyone that attempts this is very experienced in HV work and very skilled because one can easily damage some very expensive parts doing this, not to mention get hurt. This is not 240V.

I haven't found any 2013 parts information online but I recall the 2012 charger to be around $3600 from Nissan. I'm sure the 2013 isn't far off from that given that it's made stateside. Given the cost of the Brusa and other efforts to potentially make a CAN bridge, I am guessing replacing the OE charger may not be that far off cost-wise. I know it was moved up front but would hope that the guts would be retrofittable to the 2012. My bigger concern would be the communications, I am still surprised there's not a secondary monitor of the charger/battery current to make sure there isn't more current available than the supplied on-board charger can produce.

I agree with the concerns on the HV bus, ESPECIALLY if the Brusa is just paralleled with the existing on-board. That's some frightening stuff. I am sure the Brusa is built to withstand some abuse but when you're talking about this voltage and current I would not want to attempt just tying those outputs together and hope the OE on-board is tolerant of an additional supply being paralleled to it.

My thought on the 2013 OE charger is that if the 2012 BCM requests more current than the OE on-board can supply, and there is no secondary/supervisory control, the 2013 on-board may be plug and play (electrically), and leave only mechanical mounting and cable upgrades to solve. The latter I think are relatively simple. Chances are the 2013 on-board is not even in the parts pipeline yet, though, and won't be for a while.

Does anyone have any under-hood shots of the 2013 or the new charger mounting location?

The 2012 charger is under $2k. The design of the 2013 is very different and integrated into the inverter, it is not a separate unit like the 2011-2012.

 

[91040]

I agree.

Anyone can do what they what of course but they should not ask for details about a potential product a company may make, regardless of when or ever, this puts people in an uncomfortable positon at times. Because someone has not produced a product does not mean they should disclose their intelectual capital, If business did this they would fold over night. Regardless, over the course of this forum Phil has shared more info than most business ever would. My point is people should not expect him to provide such information on everything, its basic common sense and courtesy. I think his sharing of info over time has helped many people here but unfortunately some have come to expect certain information as if its expected.

 

[davewill]

Anyone can do what they what of course but they should not ask for details about a potential product a company may make, regardless of when or ever, this puts people in an uncomfortable positon at times. ...

This whole thread is basically an acknowledgment that Phil isn't going to help. We understand he's got his reasons. The only thing uncomfortable is your barging in here and making a scene about it. Since you're emphatically not here to be helpful...

 

[kubel]

No one should be forced to participate in open and free sharing of knowledge, and everyone has the right to sell a product and not provide information on how they make it, but I think we should encourage sharing here. That's what forums like these are all about.

Instead, it seems members tend to discourage any open sharing where such knowledge would cut into the potential profits of certain respected members here. I saw similar discouragement when someone wanted to post how to upgrade the stock EVSE to L2, and I was kind of puzzled why people wouldn't want this info out there.

So yeah, don't expect someone to cut into their own profits (or future profits) by releasing certain info. But at the same time, we shouldn't discourage others from sharing what they know simply because someone else has a closed-source commercial product.

 

[QueenBee]

The one thing I hope to get out of this is a reversible way to have access to the J1772 wiring harness. It's exciting to see that this project is in the realm of possible

 

[EVDRIVER]

Anyone can do what they what of course but they should not ask for details about a potential product a company may make, regardless of when or ever, this puts people in an uncomfortable positon at times. ...

This whole thread is basically an acknowledgment that Phil isn't going to help. We understand he's got his reasons. The only thing uncomfortable is your barging in here and making a scene about it. Since you're emphatically not here to be helpful...

No its about common sense and courtesy.