Gavin
Well-known member
Ok I have hit a bit of a quandary here and thought I would compose my facts and figures and all that "out loud" here and get a response from people I like and respect...and who also know about these "issues".
I ordered on day one and was given a Sept order date. All good. I have not had my spot open yet, but then Sept isn't over...so that is fine too.
I came over from ApteraForum...I was an early Aptera deposit holder, but A) after waiting over 2 years it was getting harder and harder...plus I worry Aptera is a pipe dream at this point...and B) I always said I would support the first car company coming out with an affordable highway electric car.
So, with a certain amount of sadness, I canceled my Aptera deposit and shifted over to Nissan.
Now Nissan is a great company...the most reliable car I ever had was a 1987 Nissan Sentra. And the LEAF seems to be a great car. So no problems there. But it isn't the car I really want. I am a daily commuter. Kids moved out. Wife has a Camry (will be getting a plug in prius when they come out in 2012). So I don't need 4 doors and room from 5. I want small and nimble...a true city EV. Like the Fiat 500EV or even the Th!nk City.
But I want to support the early EV makers to prove to them that the market is there so they keep making them and start building the infrastructure.
Also (and this is all my issues...I have nothing bad to say about Nissan), I don't live in a roll out area. So I used an apt address in Phoenix that I rent for my daughter. Kinda cheating I guess, but I was willing to flat-bed the car to Albuquerque and run the risk of any issues coming up before Albuquerque was ready to service the LEAF (down time would not be an issue as I haven't had a car in over 5 years. I commute by bike or scooter year round, and will still often not take a car to work even if I buy a LEAF).
But Nissan found out about this (they actually researched this and read my posts here and even posts over at ApteraForum) and Nissan didn't like it. Again, I have nothing bad to say about Nissan and support them totally in making the LEAF...but the couple of phone call I got from a manager in Tennessee, well they weren't my favorite phone calls of all time
Still, they said they would not stop me from buying a LEAF, but that they were very "concerned" about a car being out of a roll out area. That it could hurt sales in roll out areas etc etc...strange, but whatever.
While I've been waiting to change from deposit holder to order placer, and having long distance phone calls from Tennessee, well I have wondered if my buying a car I like, but not quite the car I truly want, just to support EV adoption, well if that is what I really should do. Especially at 30k....I'm not Jay Leno, just a middle class guy.
And now the LEAF is doing so well that Nissan has stopped taking reservations. The LEAF seems pretty secure with or without me. And Nissan has let me know that they really would prefer that cars aren't in areas ahead of roll out.
Add to that the fact that I would own the LEAF for only 2 or 3 years till the Fiat 500 EV comes out and then I would trade in the LEAF and get the Fiat...and maybe I should let another reservation holder take my place instead?
I look at it this way...I still have my LEAF reservation...I might keep it...the LEAF is going to be a great car...and a wonderful first EV. But I could get a Fiat 500 and a Brammo Enertia for about the same price as the LEAF. I can ride the electric motorcycle most days (I love riding without a cage, but getting older at 49 now and some icy mornings I really shouldn't, but still do, ride in the ice on less than 4 wheels), and have a cute little commuter car that I can trade in when the 500ev comes in 2012.
Soooooo, keep LEAF reservation and order one....or cancel LEAF and get Fiat 500 and nice little electric motorcycle. After tax rebates it will likely be a push in price...a bit under 30k for the LEAF, a bit under 30k for Fiat 500 and Motorcycle. So price isn't an issue.
And availability isn't much different either...I am now number 137 of 500 for the first Fiat 500 coming to the US...So LEAF in Jan probably, or Fiat 500 (non EV) in March...and heck I don't even need a car in truth...so waiting a bit isn't a problem either. I could even wait for 2012 and more EVs, but again that, to me, wouldn't be giving a strong message to Auto makers to MAKE more EVs now.
So....grrrrr....do I support the LEAF as it is a great car and the first mainstream affordable highway speed EV...or do i support the Fiat so that they keep those cars coming to the US and hopefully not be fibbing about an EV in 2 years????
Gah. Part of it is also this silly issue that is likely all in my head. I supported the Aptera for so long, and then bailed. Now I almost feel like if I bail on Nissan, well is there an issue with me?? Am I just jumping in, but then not following through?
That said, I know that Nissan will be fine without my one order. I also know I would be fine and happy with a LEAF. A good, reliable car that has no emissions and is powered by the solar panels on my roof.
So....do I move ahead with the LEAF...and cancel my Fiat 500 spot.
Or do I cancel the LEAF and keep the 500...and also go get an electric motorcycle? Kinda like a funner Volt. Motorcycle is EV for commuting and uses my solar panels and has no emissions, but then the Fiat is my long distance ride that uses gas...it would be my "range extender".
The first is a bit smarter I think. I have 2 scooters and 2 bicycles already. A car would be a better addition. And the LEAF will be a good reliable car.
The second is a bit more fun. The Fiat will be a fun car. The motorcycle will be a fun and clean ride to work.
Gah. Torn. Smart or fun. Grrr, I've always been horrid at this. I will somehow always make the wrong decision.
Of course I could just get the motorcycle and remain cageless for another 2 years till the Fiat EV comes....but I really do want to support things I like...I fear that if nobody buys the LEAF, that EVs will suffer....but it seems the LEAF is doing well. I really want the Fiat to succeed too, and fear that if America doesn't buy it, well we won't get the EV I really want.
Gah again...
anyways....I still have a bit of time to obsess over this.
but thanks for letting me rant.
Gavin
I ordered on day one and was given a Sept order date. All good. I have not had my spot open yet, but then Sept isn't over...so that is fine too.
I came over from ApteraForum...I was an early Aptera deposit holder, but A) after waiting over 2 years it was getting harder and harder...plus I worry Aptera is a pipe dream at this point...and B) I always said I would support the first car company coming out with an affordable highway electric car.
So, with a certain amount of sadness, I canceled my Aptera deposit and shifted over to Nissan.
Now Nissan is a great company...the most reliable car I ever had was a 1987 Nissan Sentra. And the LEAF seems to be a great car. So no problems there. But it isn't the car I really want. I am a daily commuter. Kids moved out. Wife has a Camry (will be getting a plug in prius when they come out in 2012). So I don't need 4 doors and room from 5. I want small and nimble...a true city EV. Like the Fiat 500EV or even the Th!nk City.
But I want to support the early EV makers to prove to them that the market is there so they keep making them and start building the infrastructure.
Also (and this is all my issues...I have nothing bad to say about Nissan), I don't live in a roll out area. So I used an apt address in Phoenix that I rent for my daughter. Kinda cheating I guess, but I was willing to flat-bed the car to Albuquerque and run the risk of any issues coming up before Albuquerque was ready to service the LEAF (down time would not be an issue as I haven't had a car in over 5 years. I commute by bike or scooter year round, and will still often not take a car to work even if I buy a LEAF).
But Nissan found out about this (they actually researched this and read my posts here and even posts over at ApteraForum) and Nissan didn't like it. Again, I have nothing bad to say about Nissan and support them totally in making the LEAF...but the couple of phone call I got from a manager in Tennessee, well they weren't my favorite phone calls of all time
Still, they said they would not stop me from buying a LEAF, but that they were very "concerned" about a car being out of a roll out area. That it could hurt sales in roll out areas etc etc...strange, but whatever.
While I've been waiting to change from deposit holder to order placer, and having long distance phone calls from Tennessee, well I have wondered if my buying a car I like, but not quite the car I truly want, just to support EV adoption, well if that is what I really should do. Especially at 30k....I'm not Jay Leno, just a middle class guy.
And now the LEAF is doing so well that Nissan has stopped taking reservations. The LEAF seems pretty secure with or without me. And Nissan has let me know that they really would prefer that cars aren't in areas ahead of roll out.
Add to that the fact that I would own the LEAF for only 2 or 3 years till the Fiat 500 EV comes out and then I would trade in the LEAF and get the Fiat...and maybe I should let another reservation holder take my place instead?
I look at it this way...I still have my LEAF reservation...I might keep it...the LEAF is going to be a great car...and a wonderful first EV. But I could get a Fiat 500 and a Brammo Enertia for about the same price as the LEAF. I can ride the electric motorcycle most days (I love riding without a cage, but getting older at 49 now and some icy mornings I really shouldn't, but still do, ride in the ice on less than 4 wheels), and have a cute little commuter car that I can trade in when the 500ev comes in 2012.
Soooooo, keep LEAF reservation and order one....or cancel LEAF and get Fiat 500 and nice little electric motorcycle. After tax rebates it will likely be a push in price...a bit under 30k for the LEAF, a bit under 30k for Fiat 500 and Motorcycle. So price isn't an issue.
And availability isn't much different either...I am now number 137 of 500 for the first Fiat 500 coming to the US...So LEAF in Jan probably, or Fiat 500 (non EV) in March...and heck I don't even need a car in truth...so waiting a bit isn't a problem either. I could even wait for 2012 and more EVs, but again that, to me, wouldn't be giving a strong message to Auto makers to MAKE more EVs now.
So....grrrrr....do I support the LEAF as it is a great car and the first mainstream affordable highway speed EV...or do i support the Fiat so that they keep those cars coming to the US and hopefully not be fibbing about an EV in 2 years????
Gah. Part of it is also this silly issue that is likely all in my head. I supported the Aptera for so long, and then bailed. Now I almost feel like if I bail on Nissan, well is there an issue with me?? Am I just jumping in, but then not following through?
That said, I know that Nissan will be fine without my one order. I also know I would be fine and happy with a LEAF. A good, reliable car that has no emissions and is powered by the solar panels on my roof.
So....do I move ahead with the LEAF...and cancel my Fiat 500 spot.
Or do I cancel the LEAF and keep the 500...and also go get an electric motorcycle? Kinda like a funner Volt. Motorcycle is EV for commuting and uses my solar panels and has no emissions, but then the Fiat is my long distance ride that uses gas...it would be my "range extender".
The first is a bit smarter I think. I have 2 scooters and 2 bicycles already. A car would be a better addition. And the LEAF will be a good reliable car.
The second is a bit more fun. The Fiat will be a fun car. The motorcycle will be a fun and clean ride to work.
Gah. Torn. Smart or fun. Grrr, I've always been horrid at this. I will somehow always make the wrong decision.
Of course I could just get the motorcycle and remain cageless for another 2 years till the Fiat EV comes....but I really do want to support things I like...I fear that if nobody buys the LEAF, that EVs will suffer....but it seems the LEAF is doing well. I really want the Fiat to succeed too, and fear that if America doesn't buy it, well we won't get the EV I really want.
Gah again...
anyways....I still have a bit of time to obsess over this.
but thanks for letting me rant.
Gavin