Chademo vs SAE

[tps]

While the SAE has been talking about the combo-plug, Nissan and others have been DOING with Chademo. We've gotten our first 2 Chademo locations in the Philly area. And we already have a bunch of cars locally which can use them. Why SAE even continues to oppose this progress is a mystery to me...

 

[cwerdna]

While the SAE has been talking about the combo-plug, Nissan and others have been DOING with Chademo. We've gotten our first 2 Chademo locations in the Philly area. And we already have a bunch of cars locally which can use them. Why SAE even continues to oppose this progress is a mystery to me...

And amongst the others, others, Tesla has been doing w/their Supercharger "standard".

It seems to be down to a 2 horse race: CHAdeMO and Tesla Supercharger.

J1772 CCS seems to be still pretty much DOA, unless those players get serious about doing.

Look out cause GM is trying to crush the momentum again!

Seems like a joke when GM is trying to stop deployment of CHAdeMO when they're selling only 100 Spark EVs in California, no plan to sell them nationwide, and still haven't even shipped a single CCS equipped car.

Yet for the tiny number of potential Spark EVs, then want everyone to stop rolling out CHAdeMO?

Its a bad joke. The only plausible explanation is that GM simply wants to stall EV adoption like they did with the EV1.

Yep... and for those who aren't following the stats, if you toss out the 1st month the Spark EV went on sale, they aren't even selling 100/month per http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Monthly-Plug-In-Sales-Nov-2013-v4final.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. We're a few days away from hearing November 2013 sales stats.

On average, in about 2 days, the Leaf outsells the what the Spark EV does in a month.

 

[tps]

And amongst the others, others, Tesla has been doing w/their Supercharger "standard".

It seems to be down to a 2 horse race: CHAdeMO and Tesla Supercharger.

And now that the model S can use Chademo via an adapter, that should give a big boost to making Chademo the de facto standard for interoperability with all but a tiny number of the QC-equipped BEV on the road for the foreseeable future.

 

[scottf200]

And amongst the others, others, Tesla has been doing w/their Supercharger "standard". It seems to be down to a 2 horse race: CHAdeMO and Tesla Supercharger.

And now that the model S can use Chademo via an adapter, that should give a big boost to making Chademo the de facto standard for interoperability with all but a tiny number of the QC-equipped BEV on the road for the foreseeable future.

They haven't started making them AFAIK. Depending on my travels with my Model X, I may get one.

The CCS Combo is here to stay. All chargers are going to be combo. Another recent example.

http://insideevs.com/pulse-qc-50-is-the-quick-charger-that-can-quick-charge-every-electric-vehicle/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[jsongster]

Well... even this weekend at the sf auto show... Chevy had a regular old j plug... no combo... rep said I could order it... I heard 1500 option... sheesh... she also insisted that VOLT was not a hybrid... ice and electric drive motors... walks like a duck... love our Prius and our LEAF!

 

[cwerdna]

she also insisted that VOLT was not a hybrid... ice and electric drive motors... walks like a duck... love our Prius and our LEAF!

Yep. I was at the SF Auto Show and took a test drive of the Spark EV and Volt (have test driven them before).

I heard some Volt misinformation from the ride-along rep such as: "no transmission" (yeah right, planetary gearset w/2 motor generators + 3 clutches == "no transmission" :roll: ), some wild figure of "61 mpg" :!: :roll: and the claim that it's driven only by the electric motor (wrong). Sigh...

I saw the Cadillac ELR on the rotating platform w/the charge door open. There was only J1772 inlet and no room around it even for the 2 extra Frankenplug pins below in the same way the Volt has the same space issue. So, I guess there's no DC FC for the ELR either.

 

[scottf200]

"no transmission" (yeah right, planetary gearset w/2 motor generators + 3 clutches == "no transmission"

When a normal (masses) driver gets in the Volt and puts it in drive and goes out on the highway to 65-70 MPH there is no shifting. To them it feels like a continuous "drivetrain". Your comments are about various topic are getting more and more bizarre and absurd. Seems like it got worse once you actually got a LEAF recently and have jumped on the chademo ONLY train.

 

[cwerdna]

"no transmission" (yeah right, planetary gearset w/2 motor generators + 3 clutches == "no transmission"

When a normal (masses) driver gets in the Volt and puts it in drive and goes out on the highway to 65-70 MPH there is no shifting. To them it feels like a continuous "drivetrain". Your comments are about various topic are getting more and more bizarre and absurd. Seems like it got worse once you actually got a LEAF recently and have jumped on the chademo ONLY train.

My comments? Sorry, they're somewhat OT but they were piggybacking onto what jsongster observed at the same auto show.

I didn't make those claims. The Volt ride-along rep did. You can blame them for bizarre and absurd. I have no idea where the bizarre "61 mpg" number came from. That's the first I'd heard of it and doesn't mesh w/the 37 mpg combined EPA rating (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=30980&id=32655&id=33900" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

I was well aware of the Volt's transaxle design long ago. Some of us on Priuschat (some in far more detail than me) had dug into this when it was found out that GM lied about the Volt the ICE having no mechanical role in turning the wheels. It can, while in CS mode. Some of the techie Priuschatters were already familiar w/the principles due to is similarity w/the power split device on Toyota hybrids.

I've also watched the Pamela Fletcher video floating around long ago where she explained the Volt's transaxle design and all its modes.

As for the ELR having no DC FC, there sure was no room on the unit shown at the inlet side.

 

[TomT]

Semantics aside, I believe that the Volt drive-line is a brilliant piece of engineering, better than anything that any other PHEV manufacturer has come up with to date...

 

[smkettner]

As for the ELR having no DC FC, there sure was no room on the unit shown at the inlet side.

I doubt any liquid fueled hybrid car will have L3 charging. Gasoline is the QC for ELR/Volt.

 

[scottf200]

As for the ELR having no DC FC, there sure was no room on the unit shown at the inlet side.

I doubt any liquid fueled hybrid car will have L3 charging. Gasoline is the QC for ELR/Volt.

Spot on. I drove over 300 miles yesterday in my Volt. I started with full battery and 3/4 tank of gas. I needed to add gas on my leg back home. Funny thing was that I bought gas in Normal, IL which is where a Tesla SC/supercharger is so if I had a mode X then I could have just stopped there for 10 minutes to get plenty to get home.

 

[Berlino]

I doubt any liquid fueled hybrid car will have L3 charging. Gasoline is the QC for ELR/Volt.

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV on sale in Japan and in Europe offers a CHAdeMO port for its 12kWh battery. Not sure if it's standard or an option.

 

[TonyWilliams]

As for the ELR having no DC FC, there sure was no room on the unit shown at the inlet side.

I doubt any liquid fueled hybrid car will have L3 charging. Gasoline is the QC for ELR/Volt.

Mitsubishi Outlander plug-in hybrid will have CHAdeMO.

 

[smkettner]

Will you pay $5 for 10kWh? (~80% fill)

 

[jsongster]

That is the wrong question... If you are in an environment where there are so many refilling stations that they compete based on commodity prices like gas and diesel do...then fine.

If however you want to drive your EV from A to B and your battery and best driving habits won't make it... what is your time worth? Mine makes the decision easy. Unless there is a theater or restaurant nearby that I want to hang out for hours at... a 30 minute refilling of the battery charge should sound ok to you at $5. Especially since I am not usually at 0% when I arrive and it is less time than that.

Compared to riding BART trains or taxicabs for time versus money it is great to be able to take my LEAF from home to every major metropolis within 80-100 miles.

Normal trips use the solar electricity from my roof... longer trips I will gladly pay to further encourage development of our shared infrastructure... and get there faster than several hours to recharge might allow.

Is it worth it to drive the speed of traffic... use the air or heater with reckless abandon... 5 to 10 bucks for a medium length trip. No biggie.

 

[aarond12]

What happens if/when Tesla opens up their Supercharger standard for the rest of the world?

http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/09/tesla-to-share-supercharger-patents/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If this happens, I believe that CHAdeMO and SAE will go the way of the EV1's paddle charger. Musk said that as long as manufacturers can keep up with the 135kW (and higher!) charging standard, they can use the Superchargers, provided they also pay into the building and maintenance of the stations proportionate to the vehicle volume.

http://insideevs.com/tesla-make-supercharger-network-available-automakers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm posting this because of a comment in one of the articles stating the LEAF is only capable of 25kW charging on CHAdeMO. I don't believe that's accurate, and looking at this posts on this thread, it isn't.

 

[TomT]

QC on that type of vehicle with that small a battery simply makes no sense IMHO. If it was an option, I'd decline it.

Mitsubishi Outlander plug-in hybrid will have CHAdeMO.

 

[TonyWilliams]

QC on that type of vehicle with that small a battery simply makes no sense IMHO. If it was an option, I'd decline it.

Mitsubishi Outlander plug-in hybrid will have CHAdeMO.

I think expensive onboard chargers make no sense. The world should be blanketed in DC chargers and we wouldn't need the relatively slow onboard ones (or make them optional in the future).

Yes, you'd need a DC charger at your house of 5kW to 10kW to do a typical overnight charge. Ultimately, it would automatically connect in some way when you parked.

 

[jsongster]

What happens if/when Tesla opens up their Supercharger standard for the rest of the world?

http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/09/tesla-to-share-supercharger-patents/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If this happens, I believe that CHAdeMO and SAE will go the way of the EV1's paddle charger. Musk said that as long as manufacturers can keep up with the 135kW (and higher!) charging standard, they can use the Superchargers, provided they also pay into the building and maintenance of the stations proportionate to the vehicle volume.

http://insideevs.com/tesla-make-supercharger-network-available-automakers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm posting this because of a comment in one of the articles stating the LEAF is only capable of 25kW charging on CHAdeMO. I don't believe that's accurate, and looking at this posts on this thread, it isn't.

I believe the LEAF can quick charge at up to 40kW. Either way... gotta love the QCs and 30 mins to 80%

Superchargers are great... one caveat... Musk said other companies would need to join a group that kicks in to maintain the supercharger network. And he also said they would need to pre buy all electricity in advance like the Tesla models.

Could be a stopper for many companies.

 

[jsongster]

QC on that type of vehicle with that small a battery simply makes no sense IMHO. If it was an option, I'd decline it.

Mitsubishi Outlander plug-in hybrid will have CHAdeMO.

I think expensive onboard chargers make no sense. The world should be blanketed in DC chargers and we wouldn't need the relatively slow onboard ones (or make them optional in the future).

Yes, you'd need a DC charger at your house of 5kW to 10kW to do a typical overnight charge. Ultimately, it would automatically connect in some way when you parked.

This sounds right to me!