Had the P3227 reprogram done today: interesting results.

[TomT]

Sorry, but using the GOM as any kind of barometer for range or charge is just doomed to failure... Too inaccurate and too many variables... Only an actual range test or something like Leaf DD or LeafSpy will give you any usable empirical data...

Before the Patch, Now its still says the Battery is healthy but the Algorithm will only Charge the GOM to 50 Miles.. Regen is also almost non exsistant now.. Like others here I used to get lots of Regin at 50 mph and slower.

 

[thew]

Sorry, but using the GOM as any kind of barometer for range or charge is just doomed to failure... Too inaccurate and too many variables... Only an actual range test or something like Leaf DD or LeafSpy will give you any usable empirical data...

Before the Patch, Now its still says the Battery is healthy but the Algorithm will only Charge the GOM to 50 Miles.. Regen is also almost non exsistant now.. Like others here I used to get lots of Regin at 50 mph and slower.

While I agree in the most Technical Sense.. The GOM is what Nissan Provided for us to use.. They really did not assume we would all be NASA engineers etc.. And My Point here is that Before It worked just as advertised.. I got the Range I paid for.. Now since they decide my 2011 LEAF needed to have the Same setup as the 2013 Leaf they have taken something from me that I Paid for.. In other words. THE GOM is all we get.. for the 35k we spent on the car we should be able to rely on the GOM..

I have done the Range test.. Many times now .. since the Flash update .. it gets no better and I really only have about 55 Miles Range.. if i drive it past that point now it will Turtle.. SO even if the Pack has more the ECU will not allow the car to run past Turtle Mode if I try to drive it beyond..


But I am open to all Brain Storming at this point.

Does LeafSpy or LEAF DD work with BlackBerry? Where can one find it..

 

[ampitupco]

No doubt my 2012 has lost regen. There basically isn't any regen anymore in the winter, which is when I need it the most. There is also no more regen at highway speeds which is unfortunate for those of us who coast down the mountains here in Colorado.

Just recently now that the temps have been over 60F, I see four regen circles. Unless I am going over 45 mph, that is.

 

[thew]

No doubt my 2012 has lost regen. There basically isn't any regen anymore in the winter, which is when I need it the most. There is also no more regen at highway speeds which is unfortunate for those of us who coast down the mountains here in Colorado.

Just recently now that the temps have been over 60F, I see 5 regen circles. Unless I am going over 45 mph, that is.

Weird, I to live at about 1100' and I never see any real Regin anymore I never see more than one Regen circle. .. But its not that cold here.. Nissan shoudl let us go back to our our Patch and they should Taylor them for Hills, Heat, Cold Etc.. This one size all solution is not working for me.. Especially because I loved my Leaf before P3227

 

[EVerlasting]

My 2012 LEAF's regen was working just fine last summer. Then I got the the update done thinking it must be good for my LEAF since it's from Nissan and avoid any warranty issues. After the update I realized my regen had reduced. It was still summer time. Then in the fall I noticed regen started reducing even more. Then in winter it almost disappeared. Now in 53-67 degree days of spring I still rarely see all four regen bubbles activate. At the most I get 3 bubbles that to if I'm braking hard. Sometimes all 4 regen bubbles come up but again disappear as I drive further. Even when my battery pack is very low, I still don't see full regen unless I'm breaking for a very long distsnce. I'm not talkng about the white dot, I'm taking about the second blue circle surrounding the white dot that indicates how much regen is available. Why would Nissan reduce regen in 2011 & 2012 models (with the software update) at the same time when they launched the 2013 model with additional aggresive regen with the new 'B' mode? If this was not a software error, it was certainly something sinister.
There was no announcement from Nissan that this update will ruin regen and in some cases range. I think we should get together for a class action law suit. Maybe then Nissan will correct this regen and reduced range issue that started after this update, or pay up.

 

[DaveEV]

Loss of regen is definitely an issue after P3227 and it's significantly worse with the battery < 75F and only seems to get worse as the battery loses more capacity.

Discussed more here: What happened to my regen?

As others have mentioned, for an early 2011 LEAF, P3227 could have resulted in the "new bars" to go along with the other changes which would definitely cause the GOM and SOC bars to be significantly more pessimistic at lower states of charge, but no one has shown any actual reduction in capacity or range because of it.

Annoying? Yes, unfortunately.

It seems that the best thing to do is to complain to both the EV-hotline and your local dealer about these issues and hope that Nissan gets the message.

 

[LeafSwe]

You can go back earlier in this thread and read all about it but briefly, the old BMS software did a marginal job of temperature compensation and could have an error of as much as plus and minus 10 percent. The new software has better temperature compensation and an error of plus 0 and minus 5 percent. Depending on where you fell in the tolerance range when the update was done, you could see no difference, gain some range, or loose some range... But in any case, the difference is not going to be dramatic. The takeaway is that the new BMS software is more accurate (theoretically)...

Ok, thanks.

If we assume that my BMS before the update hade an "error" of 10% plus due to the cold climate here, as i had almost 67AHr after 28000km.

Then after the update that 10% "error" is gone.

After all, that means i lost 10% range after the update, real life range.

Was it harmful that pre p3227 the BMS loaded the battery 10% more?
If not, i would want the old software...

 

[thew]

I have been on the Phone With Nissan NA, So far they are playing Dumb.. As if I did not drive my Leaf those 90 + Miles on a charge before P3227 and now after the only change is the GOM Range at 50 - 55 miles After Full 100% charge. And the little to no Regen.

I think I am selling my Leaf and Buying a Tesa X. I really Hate the fact that Nissan will not just set up to the Issue here and at least reflash us back to our old 2011 Patch. And they tell me that Cannot be done!..

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Sorry, but using the GOM as any kind of barometer for range or charge is just doomed to failure... Too inaccurate and too many variables... Only an actual range test or something like Leaf DD or LeafSpy will give you any usable empirical data...

Before the Patch, Now its still says the Battery is healthy but the Algorithm will only Charge the GOM to 50 Miles.. Regen is also almost non exsistant now.. Like others here I used to get lots of Regin at 50 mph and slower.

While I agree in the most Technical Sense.. The GOM is what Nissan Provided for us to use.. They really did not assume we would all be NASA engineers etc.. And My Point here is that Before It worked just as advertised.. I got the Range I paid for.. Now since they decide my 2011 LEAF needed to have the Same setup as the 2013 Leaf they have taken something from me that I Paid for.. In other words. THE GOM is all we get.. for the 35k we spent on the car we should be able to rely on the GOM..

I have done the Range test.. Many times now .. since the Flash update .. it gets no better and I really only have about 55 Miles Range.. if i drive it past that point now it will Turtle.. SO even if the Pack has more the ECU will not allow the car to run past Turtle Mode if I try to drive it beyond..


But I am open to all Brain Storming at this point.

Does LeafSpy or LEAF DD work with BlackBerry? Where can one find it..

ya and Microsoft provided us Win 2000 to use and look how that turned out. By now you must realize that the GOM can be manipulated but more so, it was simply bad programming and if you had any experience with the 2013 you would know that. I have experience with both and the difference is like night and day. it still aint perfect but I now feel it does an adequate job. it can still be manipulated but its much harder to do and it "rights" itself fairly quickly now.

 

[TomT]

Well, if it was overestimating the battery capacity, it is possible that it was using more of the top or bottom end than it should have been which could theoretically accelerate degradation... But the bottom line is that no one other than Nissan really knows and they aren't talking... And despite assurances they would look in to the regen issue with P3227, I've never heard a word back.

There is no way to go back to the old software - at least at the dealer level - so if it really is an issue for you, the only real option is to dump the car.

Was it harmful that pre p3227 the BMS loaded the battery 10% more?
If not, i would want the old software...

 

[thew]

The Issue is they made a change to my car that was not wanted or needed by ME the Owner of the Car. Yes Win2000 Sux.. And you could go back to Win XP and most did. .

So even if my pack was being over charged I understood how to Read it.. I got my 90 Miles of Range from it just fine.. Now I am supposed to live with the 2013 Algorithm in my 2011 LEAF that makes its Range unusable.. Unless There was some issue with my Flash.. From the more recent Response it seems this is happening to more 2011 LEAFs Now and just gos to show that Nissan really shoudl be working with us First adopters, not trying piss us off.. But So far no one has really provide any explanation at all..
Nissan Acts like Some how my Pack just lots its Range The Very day they did the P3227 Update.. That it could not have dumped my Range and did not shut down my regen.

This, Ignore the facts thing and call the customer stupid is getting very old fast! I know what I bought, and how many Miles I could go until Turtle.. I know that the Day After the Rflash when Charged to Full it Reads 55 ish on the GOM. So yes its Clear the Patch and not the Pack is the Issue. The Real Question is Does Nissan think I should really only have 50 ish Miles Rang on a Fully Charged 2011 LEAF ? If So they have some Splaning to do to the EPA and the rest of the LEAF community. Because that's what P3227 did to mine..

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

The Issue is they made a change to my car that was not wanted or needed by ME the Owner of the Car. Yes Win2000 Sux.. And you could go back to Win XP and most did. .

So even if my pack was being over charged I understood how to Read it.. I got my 90 Miles of Range from it just fine.. Now I am supposed to live with the 2013 Algorithm in my 2011 LEAF that makes its Range unusable.. Unless There was some issue with my Flash.. From the more recent Response it seems this is happening to more 2011 LEAFs Now and just gos to show that Nissan really shoudl be working with us First adopters, not trying piss us off.. But So far no one has really provide any explanation at all..
Nissan Acts like Some how my Pack just lots its Range The Very day they did the P3227 Update.. That it could not have dumped my Range and did not shut down my regen.

This, Ignore the facts thing and call the customer stupid is getting very old fast! I know what I bought, and how many Miles I could go until Turtle.. I know that the Day After the Rflash when Charged to Full it Reads 55 ish on the GOM. So yes its Clear the Patch and not the Pack is the Issue. The Real Question is Does Nissan think I should really only have 50 ish Miles Rang on a Fully Charged 2011 LEAF ? If So they have some Splaning to do to the EPA and the rest of the LEAF community. Because that's what P3227 did to mine..

you mean Win 98...

I had the GIDmeter when my update was done so I barely looked at the GOM but did notice my estimates did drop. Before the update, it was common to see range estimates as much as 114 miles on a full charge but afterwards, i rarely saw 100.

personally i think one of the things that happened besides a realignment of the3 GOM scale was allowing more of the battery to be used... no proof or data to support, just a suspicion.

 

[thew]

The Issue is they made a change to my car that was not wanted or needed by ME the Owner of the Car. Yes Win2000 Sux.. And you could go back to Win XP and most did. .

So even if my pack was being over charged I understood how to Read it.. I got my 90 Miles of Range from it just fine.. Now I am supposed to live with the 2013 Algorithm in my 2011 LEAF that makes its Range unusable.. Unless There was some issue with my Flash.. From the more recent Response it seems this is happening to more 2011 LEAFs Now and just gos to show that Nissan really shoudl be working with us First adopters, not trying piss us off.. But So far no one has really provide any explanation at all..
Nissan Acts like Some how my Pack just lots its Range The Very day they did the P3227 Update.. That it could not have dumped my Range and did not shut down my regen.

This, Ignore the facts thing and call the customer stupid is getting very old fast! I know what I bought, and how many Miles I could go until Turtle.. I know that the Day After the Rflash when Charged to Full it Reads 55 ish on the GOM. So yes its Clear the Patch and not the Pack is the Issue. The Real Question is Does Nissan think I should really only have 50 ish Miles Rang on a Fully Charged 2011 LEAF ? If So they have some Splaning to do to the EPA and the rest of the LEAF community. Because that's what P3227 did to mine..

you mean Win 98...

I had the GIDmeter when my update was done so I barely looked at the GOM but did notice my estimates did drop. Before the update, it was common to see range estimates as much as 114 miles on a full charge but afterwards, i rarely saw 100.

personally i think one of the things that happened besides a realignment of the3 GOM scale was allowing more of the battery to be used... no proof or data to support, just a suspicion.

"you mean Win 98... "

NICE How About Win 3.1 on like 17 Floppy disks ..

 

[TomT]

Got you beat... I still have a copy of Win 3.0 here on floppies!

NICE How About Win 3.1 on like 17 Floppy disks ..

 

[essaunders]

I didn't have P3227 done on my 2012 due to my desire to not reduce my regeneration. Can we also conclude that the overly optimistic GOM (when battery is 'fullish') was tempered a bit by P3227? for Thew, is the loss in 'range' a lack of ability to drive a previously driveable distance or simply a change in the number the car is showing you (as you drive the known course)?

 

[thew]

Got you beat... I still have a copy of Win 3.0 here on floppies!

NICE How About Win 3.1 on like 17 Floppy disks ..

I think I can find that here to . I still have some TRS-80 Software Dbase etc..

 

[thew]

I didn't have P3227 done on my 2012 due to my desire to not reduce my regeneration. Can we also conclude that the overly optimistic GOM (when battery is 'fullish') was tempered a bit by P3227? for Thew, is the loss in 'range' a lack of ability to drive a previously driveable distance or simply a change in the number the car is showing you (as you drive the known course)?

Yes, my range is really affected, Turtle Mode will still happen at about 3 miles or so left on the GOM.

Update .. I just put in an order for LEAF DD.. So Ill have more Data Soon.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Yes, my range is really affected, Turtle Mode will still happen at about 3 miles or so left on the GOM...

Unlikely. If the GOM is showing 3 miles, meaning no VLBW yet (which shows ---), you will likely have more miles than that before turtle.

Regardless, the Leaf DD will let you drive the lower part of the battery with confidence. As you may know, LBW is at 49 Gid and VLBW is at 24 Gid. As the battery degrades those numbers represent an increasing proportion of the total state of charge because they are fixed.

 

[TomT]

I finally tossed all that out along with my TRS-100 cassette stuff... I was a big dBase fan back when...

Got you beat... I still have a copy of Win 3.0 here on floppies!

NICE How About Win 3.1 on like 17 Floppy disks ..

I think I can find that here to . I still have some TRS-80 Software Dbase etc..

 

[thew]

Got you beat... I still have a copy of Win 3.0 here on floppies!

NICE How About Win 3.1 on like 17 Floppy disks ..

I think I can find that here to . I still have some TRS-80 Software Dbase etc..

[/quote]

OMG remember the Tape Drive.. and the Volume Control.. Man it took hours.