LEAF advisory group

[DaveinOlyWA]

If Nissan are able to offer bigger range batteries in the future, the 9 bar replacement clause may not be as bad as it seems with today's technology. Of course there are NO guarantees a bigger range pack due to better batteries or more batteries will ever be made available. If they can they will I suppose.

anything is possible but there is a significant hurdle to doing that as several supporting systems may need to be changed which would imply an extra cost for that option if it were ever available.

 

[KJD]

Rumor has it there was another trip to Japan recently. How about an update ?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

went to Tokyo motor show to see Blade
glider intro (no release date but will be a real product) and basically talked about how to support new LEAF owners and ways on how to get the right info (iow, NO 100 mile claims!!) to potential owners.

that about sums up the stuff outside the NDA

 

[jhm614]

went to Tokyo motor show to see Blade
glider intro (no release date but will be a real product) and basically talked about how to support new LEAF owners and ways on how to get the right info (iow, NO 100 mile claims!!) to potential owners.

that about sums up the stuff outside the NDA

And what about the IDx? How did it look in person?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

went to Tokyo motor show to see Blade
glider intro (no release date but will be a real product) and basically talked about how to support new LEAF owners and ways on how to get the right info (iow, NO 100 mile claims!!) to potential owners.

that about sums up the stuff outside the NDA

And what about the IDx? How did it look in person?

it was a "stage" vehicle so could not get real close but envision a late 80's compact with bling styling and that will get you pretty close. I have been less than an hour home but have some pix i will post somewhere soon but have a few other obligations to take care in addition to this day going on its 29th hour despite it only being Noon

 

[evchels]

And what about the IDx? How did it look in person?

I liked the retro Datsun flavor, but not everyone on the board seemed to agree...

With respect to the trip, it was two days of meetings (a combination of various Nissan teams updating us since the last trip and our group providing more feedback) with an auto show visit in the middle. As Dave mentioned, everyone is under NDA, and I don't want the members to put themselves in a tough spot by trying to say more.

Topically, we covered the dealer experience (Nissan has been focusing on improving this, but we discussed what else could be done), infrastructure, marketing and communications w/r/t growing the EV market, potential options for the existing product, and a heavy dose of increasing support of and engagement with existing drivers.

The battery rental program was briefly discussed, but was not a significant topic of this trip. However, we had been asked for and delivered significant feedback to Nissan North America just before the trip on how that topic has evolved within Nissan since the initial announcement, and I suspect Nissan is still working through it. We also made sure those we met with in Japan had received copies of that feedback.

I, too, just landed a little while ago, so I will go through my notes and check with Nissan to see what else they'd be willing to share.

 

[stanley]

If they shared information with you, you should report it. Otherwise you would appear to be a stooge for Nissan and not a valid representative off Leaf owners

 

[TomT]

Which is to say, no information at all... How disappointing.

that about sums up the stuff outside the NDA

 

[Stoaty]

If they shared information with you, you should report it.

Of course the advisory group will report any information shared with them, as long as it is not covered by the non-disclosure agreement (NDA) they had to sign as part of being in the advisory group. Nissan decides what information that is shared with them can be shared with the rest of us. That is the way things work when you sign an NDA. Violating the NDA could have serious legal consequences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[thankyouOB]

if i told you anything, i would have to kill you.
(snark)

this closed loop, with a few people plucked to be anointed, is almost as bad as having no advisory group at all.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Any discussion of price/leasing for the BladeGlider?

 

[evchels]

Any discussion of price/leasing for the BladeGlider?

Nope. Still way too firmly in concept stage.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Snipped out of the OP:

. . .I know, it's "not rocket science" to communicate with your customers...and yet the amount and frequency of bi-directional communication that the EV community has always wanted is more than automakers (and most companies of their size) have been accustomed to for decades. There is a lot for these companies to learn- and knowing how much frustration has been brewing in spots of the LEAF community, I appreciate that this group has been willing to embrace these efforts, even if they seem delinquent....

Anything this group can accomplish will be better than no group at all. Every little bit helps. You'd think Nissan would have dedicated social media reps and forum analysts, and maybe they do, but some human face time at corporate doesn't hurt.

So, what is the current make up of the group by region? Has it changed after the first year?

 

[JPWhite]

if i told you anything, i would have to kill you.
(snark)

this closed loop, with a few people plucked to be anointed, is almost as bad as having no advisory group at all.

Rather harsh. NDA's are typically short term and not open ended. Which means once Nissan end non disclosure on a topic by their action (i.e. they release an announcement) or on a pre-determined date then the advisory board are free to share what they have been told under NDA.

Least that's the way I've seen NDA's work.

 

[TimLee]

Anything this group can accomplish will be better than no group at all. Every little bit helps. ...

So, what is the current make up of the group by region? Has it changed after the first year?

+1. Having the advisory group is helpful to both the community of LEAF drivers and to Nissan. But unfortunately Nissan's application of an NDA to most of what they discuss with Nissan makes them much less useful than they could be.
I think Nissan's outreach and communication with the community was much better when they did the early large meeting at Google (and they listened and corrected many of the things that needed improvement on the 2011 / 2012 LEAF with the 2013 LEAF models). And even when they held the January Townhall meeting in Phoenix I thought their communication was very good.
But most of their communication since the end of spring has been horrendous, other than the small dinner meeting they held in Phoenix in late summer.

Additionally, most of the members in the group were selected because this forum community insisted they would best represent the larger driver group, in part because they are heavy participants here and therefore in touch with issues and concerns on an ongoing basis. The members are also all known and accessible- so community members can and do contact us behind the scenes as they see fit.

I agree that the Advisory Group sincerely wants to help the LEAF community. I don't recall seeing a concise list of the members although it might be here and I just missed it. I agree with DNAinaGoodWay that a list of the original members and current members would be of interest.

 

[evchels]

Snipped out of the OP:

Anything this group can accomplish will be better than no group at all. Every little bit helps. You'd think Nissan would have dedicated social media reps and forum analysts, and maybe they do, but some human face time at corporate doesn't hurt.

So, what is the current make up of the group by region? Has it changed after the first year?

Thanks. The pace can be frustratingly slow, even from the comparative "inside" view of the group, and we continue to push against that (a lot on this trip, actually). Our group isn't gentle with Nissan at all. But, there are some things being done on the basis of community feedback (not just ours, I'm sure) and I look forward to more of that becoming known.

The group is actually still mostly the same (we lost one in EU)- it didn't really kick off until January in terms of meeting w Nissan, so we're still in Year 1. There are 6 US members, 2 UK/EU (few more pending), 1 Japan. The current plan is to make some additions and changes over the next several months.

Current members are:

Dave Laur (DaveinOlyWA), WA
George Estep, VA
Kathleen Smith (Kataphyn), CA (LA)
Darell Dickey (darelldd), CA (Sacramento)
Fran Sullivan-Fahs, FL (not active here)
Don Francis, GA (DEFrancis2)

Jeffery Lay, UK
Mark Nitters, France

Yoshimitsu Kaji, Japan (new addition in Nov.)

 

[TomT]

Interesting... It is a somewhat different mix than I would have expected...

The group is actually still mostly the same...

 

[evchels]

+1. Having the advisory group is helpful to both the community of LEAF drivers and to Nissan. But unfortunately Nissan's application of an NDA to most of what they discuss with Nissan makes them much less useful than they could be.
I think Nissan's outreach and communication with the community was much better when they did the early large meeting at Google (and they listened and corrected many of the things that needed improvement on the 2011 / 2012 LEAF with the 2013 LEAF models). And even when they held the January Townhall meeting in Phoenix I thought their communication was very good.
But most of their communication since the end of spring has been horrendous, other than the small dinner meeting they held in Phoenix in late summer.

The LEAF Adv Board ("LAB" has become our shorthand) should not substitute for other events. And while helping with both of the AZ events myself, I've never gotten any impression that Nissan thinks the LAB alleviates the need to keep doing those things (we have in fact encouraged far more of them, and particularly in some of the geographic areas that haven't gotten much or any attention.) The challenge is that each of these efforts have been good in different ways; they're just too sporadic, imo. I'd like to see better consistency of communication and engagement, whether physically or online. Nissan's engagement with the LAB has been sporadic too, with a significant lull in activity after the January trip (which is part of why you've all not heard much about what's been going on w the group...not much was going on.) There's been some internal team shifting that will hopefully help with that by getting more people involved, and we came out of the last week feeling more confident on that front. But, they may still need to adjust and coordinate the teams, particularly between regions, as this continues to unfold.

Re the LAB and NDA's, I'd hoped we'd get away without them. But, I've at least seen cases of Nissan being far more forthcoming about some things - stuff not nearly ready for public consumption - in order to get better feedback early enough in the process to make a difference, rather than purely for the sake of just having an NDA. So, I don't agree that the NDA makes the LAB inherently less effective - in some cases the outcome may be better for the drivers because the group was able to have some influence along the way at a deeper level than can often happen in the more public events. But I understand that it's frustrating from the outside.

I'll also keep working with Nissan toward a better balance between having the LAB say nothing and protecting the proprietary. Part of the point was for the LAB to be able to share information with the broader community, and the NDA's do make that more difficult. But I still think the end goal is to have Nissan do more sharing itself, which makes it less important whether the LAB is unrestricted.

 

[thankyouOB]

what is the word on SYB?
is LAB pressing the issue; the survey here reflects that the majority are in agreement; not having a battery-buy option down the road is wrong.

Does Nissan realize that they should offer a buy option for those who dont like or want to lease?
At the very least, are they discussing with LAB plans to fix the bait-and-switch for the few thousands who bought BEFORE Nissan decided or announced (I dont know which) that they would never sell a battery as a part to someone who owns the car???

This tactic -- even living in coastal LA and having a relatively healthy battery -- has frustrated me totally. i would never never have gotten a LEAF if i had been told i would be stuck with having the most expensive part deteriorate and there would be no way for me to purchase a replacement part.

Going legal on this is not my style, but i cannot conceive how they can defend that against a class action by owners who bought before June 2013, when the SYB was announced.

 

[stanley]

I understand that there is value to being able to give input early with out Nissan fearing disclosure that can impact then from a competitive standpoint. Behind my comment is frustration. I have a 2011 that was promised to get 100 miles of range. I live in Coastal San Diego yet my battery has lost significant range. After 30,000 miles I am lucky to get 60 miles out of a charge with moderate suburban driving. I continue to see nothing to address this problem. The car promised is not the one I currently have.