Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

[jlv]

The 62mph limit on ProPilot makes it useless for highway travel in the US.

As an interesting comparison, when I got my S with AP2 in March, AP was limited to 60MPH on a limited-access divided highway and 35MPH off. Successive OTA updates increased those limits until there are effectively none anymore. So perhaps Nissan will increase the limits in the future.

 

[alozzy]

Unfortunately, Nissan has decided that they won't be doing OTA updates - you'll need to take the Leaf to a dealership.

 

[edatoakrun]

edit- X-posted on the 40 kWh battery thread, so you can respond there.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24505&p=504112#p504112


Anyone found a detailed report on battery improvements, beyond the large increase in density?

Nissan unveils new LEAF; 150-mile range; high-power variant with larger battery in 2019

...The individual cell structure of the laminated lithium-ion battery cells was improved—a 67% increase in energy density versus the 2010 model. Another key engineering improvement for the lithium-ion battery pack is enhanced electrode materials with revised chemistry, resulting in higher power density while contributing to greater battery durability on charge and discharge...

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/09/20170906-leaf.html

 

[edatoakrun]

edatoakrun...$10 k is only my guess of how much the Bolt will cost GM for each sale.

$9k figure comes from a Bloomberg news item citing anonymous sources. These pieces are generally to paint EVs in bad light and try to put pressure on CA ZEV mandate.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-30/gm-s-ready-to-lose-9-000-a-pop-and-chase-the-electric-car-boom

Unless you are a senior accounting guy at GM or an industry expert who does knock-down analysis, your guess is worth nothing.

Except that that guess is informed primarily by:

This interview goes far beyond the Bolt, with comparisons to his earlier i-3 teardown, other BEVs, battery designs, etc...

Tearing Into The Chevy Bolt EV - Autoline After Hours 385

Streamed live on Jul 13, 2017
TOPIC: Chevrolet Bolt EV
SPECIAL GUEST: Sandy Munro, Munro & Associates

You may want to skip the first ~5 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl3cUMIX9Uo

At the Bolt thread:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18907&start=1640

IIRC, they concluded GM was losing only $~7,500 on each sale, but that was before GM began discounting the Bolt so heavily.

BTW, if you do want a Bolt, I think you should expect there to be even better bargains soon, not least due to the effects of competition from the Gen two LEAF.

 

[evnow]

Apparently not. All the major highways going through my state have speed limits of 65 and traffic typically moves in the 70-75 mph range. Other states have even higher speed limits.

Wow - you have freeways that go at 7-75 mph in rush hour traffic ?

BTW, that 65 mph is the max. not min. Speed is the real drug people are addicted to.

 

[Durandal]

Not going with the flow of traffic is a great way to inspire the ire of other drivers around here, which leads to people brake-checking you and other asinine behavior. Only when traffic is light is it relatively safe to go under the speed limit in the right lane here. Otherwise you're just asking for trouble.

 

[phr00t]

Personally I think the Bolt is a ridiculous car. What's the point of extending the range if the car is uncomfortable and has almost no cargo room? Hope you don't need to pack more than a couple bags of groceries for you next road trip in that Bolt.

I held off from getting a Bolt with the same concern. I have kids & go on vacation... how could I ever deal with the "small" cargo space on the Bolt? Then a great lease deal came around, and I had to give it a go.

Took it on vacation & everything fit.

One thing I realized, is you can remove the "fake" floor on the Bolt & even remove a big foam thing from the bottom. This gives you an extra ~2 cubic feet of space to work with.

The Bolt isn't "uncomfortable", it just isn't very comfortable. It is acceptable... "OK" comfort. I wish it was better, but it doesn't detract from the overall benefits of the vehicle.

 

[Nubo]

Do you live in the same US I live in ? Because 62 is plenty good in the freeways around here. Yes, you won't be the fastest car in the freeway - but not the slowest either. During rush traffic, when you might use the feature most, you would be fortunate to hit 50.

Apparently not. All the major highways going through my state have speed limits of 65 and traffic typically moves in the 70-75 mph range. Other states have even higher speed limits.

I'm still quite interested in why Nissan is saying the speed limit on this is 62 and yet journalists appear to have been given propilot set to higher speeds. Is that bait and switch, or are the journalists lying, or was nissan's media relations group incompetent when they specified 62 as the speed limit? Because something isn't right here.

It's a bit early to get too excited about the specifics of this feature-set. No doubt 100KPH was chosen for Japan, where that is the highest national speed limit. I'd expect the US version to support at least 65, or perhaps 75 MPH to reflect our prevalent limits. Or perhaps get local limit info from the NAV database. If you're one who must absolutely travel 10-15MPH over ANY posted speed limit, then you may be out of luck. The point of the feature is safety, so enabling over-speeding is not likely on the feature list.

 

[phr00t]

Do you live in the same US I live in ? Because 62 is plenty good in the freeways around here. Yes, you won't be the fastest car in the freeway - but not the slowest either. During rush traffic, when you might use the feature most, you would be fortunate to hit 50.

Apparently not. All the major highways going through my state have speed limits of 65 and traffic typically moves in the 70-75 mph range. Other states have even higher speed limits.

I'm still quite interested in why Nissan is saying the speed limit on this is 62 and yet journalists appear to have been given propilot set to higher speeds. Is that bait and switch, or are the journalists lying, or was nissan's media relations group incompetent when they specified 62 as the speed limit? Because something isn't right here.

It's a bit early to get too excited about the specifics of this feature-set. No doubt 100KPH was chosen for Japan, where that is the highest national speed limit. I'd expect the US version to support at least 65, or perhaps 75 MPH to reflect our prevalent limits. Or perhaps get local limit info from the NAV database. If you're one who must absolutely travel 10-15MPH over ANY posted speed limit, then you may be out of luck. The point of the feature is safety, so enabling over-speeding is not likely on the feature list.

The 62MPH limit was in the US Nissan news release. This means the system won't work at posted highway speeds in the US.

 

[jonemyers]

I purchased a used 2013 Leaf S about 20 months ago. It has been a very good commuter car for my 40 mile round trip in the temperate Portland Oregon area climate. I don't have any charging available at work. The biggest issue for me is when I want to take a side trip on my way home or in the case when my wife and I both need a vehicle that can travel out of town. We do have a hybrid sedan that we use for trips when we travel together. In the Portland area the battery has not shown any abnormal degradation and the charging infrastructure is decent but I do not take the vehicle on any trip where I know I will have to recharge outside our house because it takes too long to recharge and you never know if the charger will be in working order. I am very careful to keep the battery cool by only charging over night and parking in the shade even when it is not convenient. I don't charge much over 80% unless I know I need the range. I will be buying an electric car to replace the Leaf sometime in the next 2-3 years and it will be something with 200 or more miles of range so that I have the flexibility to get to a trailhead and back to hike or bike without having to find a charger. I will also be looking for something with more sophisticated battery temperature management so that I don't have to worry about babying the battery to get good long term life. It appears that based on the information provided I won't be looking at a next generation Leaf for that next new electric vehicle.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Apparently not. All the major highways going through my state have speed limits of 65 and traffic typically moves in the 70-75 mph range. Other states have even higher speed limits.

Wow - you have freeways that go at 7-75 mph in rush hour traffic ?

BTW, that 65 mph is the max. not min. Speed is the real drug people are addicted to.

To be honest, yeah we do. It can still jam up, but only in certain small spots. Traffic in this city is seriously light considering the size of it, but outside of rush hour of course 70+ is the norm on the freeway.

 

[Nubo]

Apparently not. All the major highways going through my state have speed limits of 65 and traffic typically moves in the 70-75 mph range. Other states have even higher speed limits.

I'm still quite interested in why Nissan is saying the speed limit on this is 62 and yet journalists appear to have been given propilot set to higher speeds. Is that bait and switch, or are the journalists lying, or was nissan's media relations group incompetent when they specified 62 as the speed limit? Because something isn't right here.

It's a bit early to get too excited about the specifics of this feature-set. No doubt 100KPH was chosen for Japan, where that is the highest national speed limit. I'd expect the US version to support at least 65, or perhaps 75 MPH to reflect our prevalent limits. Or perhaps get local limit info from the NAV database. If you're one who must absolutely travel 10-15MPH over ANY posted speed limit, then you may be out of luck. The point of the feature is safety, so enabling over-speeding is not likely on the feature list.

The 62MPH limit was in the US Nissan news release. This means the system won't work at posted highway speeds in the US.

It's a bit early to come to that conclusion. Their configurator also showed my light-grey interior as "black leather".

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

It's a bit early to get too excited about the specifics of this feature-set. No doubt 100KPH was chosen for Japan, where that is the highest national speed limit. I'd expect the US version to support at least 65, or perhaps 75 MPH to reflect our prevalent limits. Or perhaps get local limit info from the NAV database. If you're one who must absolutely travel 10-15MPH over ANY posted speed limit, then you may be out of luck. The point of the feature is safety, so enabling over-speeding is not likely on the feature list.

The 62MPH limit was in the US Nissan news release. This means the system won't work at posted highway speeds in the US.

It's a bit early to come to that conclusion. Their configurator also showed my light-grey interior as "black leather".

So you're saying the press release published by Nissan is wrong. You may be right, but if you are it's hard to imagine how they let that slip through the approval to publish it.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't generally suggest new topics, but this Pro Pilot bickering definitely deserves one.

 

[phr00t]

The 62MPH limit was in the US Nissan news release. This means the system won't work at posted highway speeds in the US.

It's a bit early to come to that conclusion. Their configurator also showed my light-grey interior as "black leather".

So you're saying the press release published by Nissan is wrong. You may be right, but if you are it's hard to imagine how they let that slip through the approval to publish it.

I'd put my money on Nissan being correct. Don't let wishful thinking get in the way of rational thought. 62MPH is the limit, and until further notice, means it won't work on the highway. Plan your purchasing accordingly.

 

[phr00t]

I don't generally suggest new topics, but this Pro Pilot bickering definitely deserves one.

ProPilot took up most of the time during the world premier. It is what they've been teasing for a long time. It is a big disappointment, between speed limitations, single-lane dynamic cruise control & lane assistance only. No parking assist in the US, even though it was a big topic with live demonstrations during the event.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

I don't generally suggest new topics, but this Pro Pilot bickering definitely deserves one.

ProPilot took up most of the time during the world premier. It is what they've been teasing for a long time. It is a big disappointment, between speed limitations, single-lane dynamic cruise control & lane assistance only. No parking assist in the US, even though it was a big topic with live demonstrations during the event.

I didn't watch the reveal.

Man, it can't even park itself? Lots of cars have been able to do this for a while. And Nissan even released a video on its official youtube channel saying leaf with propilot park would be revealed on September 6:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXpiE2tcjqc
New Nissan LEAF with ProPILOT Park premieres September 6

Also:

https://electrek.co/2017/07/05/nissan-next-gen-leaf-electric-autonomous-parking/

Today, it confirmed that the 2018 Leaf will have autonomous parking as part of ProPilot.

Now, how did electrek come to this conclusion? Because they watched the youtube video I just referenced.

 

[phr00t]

I don't generally suggest new topics, but this Pro Pilot bickering definitely deserves one.

ProPilot took up most of the time during the world premier. It is what they've been teasing for a long time. It is a big disappointment, between speed limitations, single-lane dynamic cruise control & lane assistance only. No parking assist in the US, even though it was a big topic with live demonstrations during the event.

I didn't watch the reveal.

Man, it can't even park itself? Lots of cars have been able to do this for a while. And Nissan even released a video on its official youtube channel saying leaf with propilot park would be revealed on September 6:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXpiE2tcjqc
New Nissan LEAF with ProPILOT Park premieres September 6

Also:

https://electrek.co/2017/07/05/nissan-next-gen-leaf-electric-autonomous-parking/

Today, it confirmed that the 2018 Leaf will have autonomous parking as part of ProPilot.

Now, how did electrek come to this conclusion? Because they watched the youtube video I just referenced.

Oh, the Nissan Leaf can park itself... if you don't live in the US. The automatic parking feature won't be available to the US market:

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/07/05/new-nissan-leaf-will-have-fully-autonomous-parking/

"Unfortunately, Americans won't have the privilege of using this feature yet. It will only be available in Europe and Japan for the first model year, 2018. However, a Nissan representative told us that they "are looking at adding this feature for upcoming model years in the US."

 

[Nubo]

It's a bit early to come to that conclusion. Their configurator also showed my light-grey interior as "black leather".

So you're saying the press release published by Nissan is wrong. You may be right, but if you are it's hard to imagine how they let that slip through the approval to publish it.

I'd put my money on Nissan being correct. Don't let wishful thinking get in the way of rational thought. 62MPH is the limit, and until further notice, means it won't work on the highway. Plan your purchasing accordingly.

I'd say it's even more irrational to assume Nissan would pick a US speed that's completely irrelevant to US driving, but just happens to be the Japan national speed limit. The setting after all, must be in firmware.

Post by member Lasareath seems to show that speed in excess of 62MPH is fine: http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24505#p504132

I guess we could posit that the demo cars may have been un-nerfed, but I'll stick with Occam's Razor.

 

[edatoakrun]

I don't generally suggest new topics, but this Pro Pilot bickering definitely deserves one.

We already have one.

New Leaf ProPilot

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24143

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