New purchase, Normal Dash Range?

[GerryAZ]

The voltage range of the cells in blue is normal for deep discharge. The 507 mV delta between high and low cells is higher than normal (I have seen 250 to 300 mV or so on both 2011 and 2015). The 3 weak cells are lower than normal, but I don't think they are enough lower to cause premature shutdown. The screen shot after full charge will show what the weak cells are like when charged.

Gerry

 

[VenatorFox]

^^^
Thanks! We didn't need a few of the screens like elevation and charging power.

Re: the "weak cells" listed and the big delta (I alluded to it at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=447143#p447143), I don't run my car that low, so I don't know if that's "normal" when you run the car until power cut. Can someone chime in about the criteria that a dealer would use for a bad cell replacement? If not, seems one would need to skim results from Googling for stuff like these:
site:mynissanleaf.com weak cell test
site:mynissanleaf.com cvli
site:mynissanleaf.com cell voltage inspection

There's NO way that car should have all 12 capacity bars. At least we (or I) now have some confirmation that a reset of the BMS to reset the capacity bars doesn't reset SOH and Hx. IIRC, the only legitimate reason for a dealer to reset it is if the pack is replaced. (Nissan corporate did reset it on a Phoenix Leaf that lost a bunch of CBs years ago... long story.)

You may want to skim http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19739. I don't follow since I haven't even lost 1 capacity bar yet and may not have my Leaf long enough to lose 3 or 4 of them. If http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=445294#p445294 is correct, then you should already have a 4 bar loser, and you'll just have to wait for the BMS to relearn the battery and shed those CBs. I wonder if your car has P3227 applied.

You have 1 low tire and the others you might want to inflate a bit higher than door placard pressure to help w/range and head off edge wear.

Do you know the original in service date of the car? That's when the 5 year/60K mile clock started ticking.

Side note: I found http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=18539 on the car that DaveinOlyWA wrote on his blog about.

With a full charge today the SOH was still only 63%.

I took it back today and showed them this thread, they will look over it. I stated that with the SOH indicated, the battery was reset. I left the car with them and the mechanic will check it out. It will probably be towed to a Nissan dealer for inspection also. Thanks for everyone's help on this matter.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Cool. Do you remember how many gids on a full charge?

Good luck w/whatever you decide to do. Assuming there’s no opt-out problem and you were to keep the car, off the top of my head, it seems highly likely you’ll be down to 8 capacity bars before the 5 years/60K miles is up, and thus be eligible for a free replacement battery (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192) once the dash display reaches reach 8 CBs or less. So, this could be a blessing in disguise.

I didn't follow how long it took for the car at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=18539 for the BMS to re-learn and to be down to 8 CBs. And, I don't recall about the Phoenix car that I mentioned either.

 

[Reddy]

There's NO way that car should have all 12 capacity bars. At least we (or I) now have some confirmation that a reset of the BMS to reset the capacity bars doesn't reset SOH and Hx. IIRC, the only legitimate reason for a dealer to reset it is if the pack is replaced. (Nissan corporate did reset it on a Phoenix Leaf that lost a bunch of CBs years ago... long story.)

Yes, as feared it's been reset. Maybe that's good as others have said. Make sure you elevate this to Nissan through the 1-800 number. Another example of UNSCRUPULOUS dealers resetting to make the battery look better than it really is. It could be the dealer before, during, or after auction. Who knows. Unfortunately, there have been several examples of this very thing. Hopefully you'll get a new battery out of this.

Edit: 41.72 AHr should definitely be at 8 bars, and thus getting a new battery under the warranty. However, it may take some time to "re-lose" the bars, and not likely during the winter.

 

[LeftieBiker]

However, it may take some time to "re-lose" the bars, and not likely during the winter.

Why would that be? The capacity is gone, so you aren't waiting for heat-related degradation. The BMS should relearn the pack at the same rate (which I understand to be weeks, not months?) regardless of the time of year or the temperature.

 

[VenatorFox]

^^^
Cool. Do you remember how many gids on a full charge?

Good luck w/whatever you decide to do. Assuming there’s no opt-out problem and you were to keep the car, off the top of my head, it seems highly likely you’ll be down to 8 capacity bars before the 5 years/60K miles is up, and thus be eligible for a free replacement battery (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192) once the dash display reaches reach 8 CBs or less. So, this could be a blessing in disguise.

I didn't follow how long it took for the car at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=18539 for the BMS to re-learn and to be down to 8 CBs. And, I don't recall about the Phoenix car that I mentioned either.

170 GIDs on a full charge.

 

[Phatcat73]

OP should also call the EV hotline for a case #. I think Nissan should be able to pull the battery SOH via their tools and waive the 4 bar wait time.

 

[cwerdna]

170 GIDs on a full charge.

Cool.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14102&p=443983#p443983 and mwalsh's sig there have gid values on full charge of their 4 bar losers.

 

[Evoforce]

I wouldn't make too much of an awakening with Nissan other than to gather info from the Dealer about past opt out and service history. Nissan technically only has to repair it to 9 bars. If you don't make a big fuss about it to everyone, you will get a new battery in a relatively short time frame. This is a win for you. After the BMS learns the accurate bars, take it to a Nissan dealer and tell them it has reached 8 bars. They will confirm this and contact Nissan Headquarters which will send you a new battery. Do not do anything with Nissan that will trigger them to decide to repair the battery rather than replace it. Because you are a new owner you are not technically guaranteed a new battery, but they have been mostly replacing them with new as a matter of business practice. I wouldn't look the gift horse in the mouth on this one. Say, " Wow I lucked out" bide a little time, get the new battery, and rejoice that you have a like new car.

 

[dm33]

I wouldn't make too much of an awakening with Nissan other than to gather info from the Dealer about past opt out and service history. Nissan technically only has to repair it to 9 bars. If you don't make a big fuss about it to everyone, you will get a new battery in a relatively short time frame. This is a win for you. After the BMS learns the accurate bars, take it to a Nissan dealer and tell them it has reached 8 bars. They will confirm this and contact Nissan Headquarters which will send you a new battery. Do not do anything with Nissan that will trigger them to decide to repair the battery rather than replace it. Because you are a new owner you are not technically guaranteed a new battery, but they have been mostly replacing them with new as a matter of business practice. I wouldn't look the gift horse in the mouth on this one. Say, " Wow I lucked out" bide a little time, get the new battery, and rejoice that you have a like new car.

The warranty should go with the car and it shouldn't matter how many owners there have been. This isn't some sneaky gift, its the long fought for warranty that Nissan now applies to every LEAF (unless opted out). Its horrible that Nissan makes a battery that can degrade so much in so little time. Worse that they make up ever more onerous hoops to go through. They claim 70% battery warranty yet 8 bars left is more like 66%. Now dealers can reset a degraded battery and claim it 12 bars. What a scam.
The warranty is earned, its not a gift.
Its not practical to 'repair' these batteries. AFAIK, they typically replace them.

 

[Evoforce]

I wouldn't make too much of an awakening with Nissan other than to gather info from the Dealer about past opt out and service history. Nissan technically only has to repair it to 9 bars. If you don't make a big fuss about it to everyone, you will get a new battery in a relatively short time frame. This is a win for you. After the BMS learns the accurate bars, take it to a Nissan dealer and tell them it has reached 8 bars. They will confirm this and contact Nissan Headquarters which will send you a new battery. Do not do anything with Nissan that will trigger them to decide to repair the battery rather than replace it. Because you are a new owner you are not technically guaranteed a new battery, but they have been mostly replacing them with new as a matter of business practice. I wouldn't look the gift horse in the mouth on this one. Say, " Wow I lucked out" bide a little time, get the new battery, and rejoice that you have a like new car.

The warranty should go with the car and it shouldn't matter how many owners there have been. This isn't some sneaky gift, its the long fought for warranty that Nissan now applies to every LEAF (unless opted out). Its horrible that Nissan makes a battery that can degrade so much in so little time. Worse that they make up ever more onerous hoops to go through. They claim 70% battery warranty yet 8 bars left is more like 66%. Now dealers can reset a degraded battery and claim it 12 bars. What a scam.
The warranty is earned, its not a gift.
Its not practical to 'repair' these batteries. AFAIK, they typically replace them.

Look back at he thread (Amended settlement Klee v Nissan). You will find your answers there. Also 2013-2015 (16?) can legally also be repaired to a minimum of 9 bar capacity.

Any 2011 and 2012 owners that were not mailed the packets from the court back in 2013 (meaning you would have had to own the car then) are also not members of the class thus Nissan is only legally obligated to repair them to a minimum of 9 bars. They have repaired some but replaced most so far... but only as a business practice for those new owners of 2011-12 (after summer 2013) and that could change at any time. Will it? Who knows for sure?

Many owners also make sure that they get every annual battery check too, so they feel secure that they will legally qualify for a battery capacity warranty. But... so far, Nissan has been replacing batteries without requiring that.

What is your risk taking threshold? I personally just lost the 9th bar on one of my cars. I didn't take it in for the annual check because I had been told by many at Nissan that I didn't need to do so even though it clearly states that it must legally be done. I took that risk.

Now, one of my cars has depleted it's battery and is in for replacement. I am having it immediately replaced (instead of driving it closer to 5 yr expiration and the hope of a 30kWh battery availability) because I'm not willing to take the risk of them not replacing it then. They may change their business practice in the future. So basically, I lost many months of driving my depleted car, because of legal fear that Nissan might change their mind soon, as I believe that many cars will need replacement batteries.

My fear is that it hasn't been that long since the settlement of the Klee v Nissan to truly stake a bet on long term policy. Whereas, I did stake a gamble on no annual battery checks. Hmmm...

 

[VenatorFox]

^^^
Cool. Do you remember how many gids on a full charge?

Good luck w/whatever you decide to do. Assuming there’s no opt-out problem and you were to keep the car, off the top of my head, it seems highly likely you’ll be down to 8 capacity bars before the 5 years/60K miles is up, and thus be eligible for a free replacement battery (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192) once the dash display reaches reach 8 CBs or less. So, this could be a blessing in disguise.

I didn't follow how long it took for the car at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=18539 for the BMS to re-learn and to be down to 8 CBs. And, I don't recall about the Phoenix car that I mentioned either.

Well, good news. I took it back to the local dealer I purchased from a couple of days ago and they towed it to the closest Nissan Dealer about 100 miles west. The Nissan Dealer there ran some tests I assume and claimed that the battery will be replaced under warranty. The Nissan Dealer there is however not certified for LEAF battery replacements, so my local dealer will tow it to a Nissan Dealer in Colorado to get the battery replaced. I should probably tip my local dealer a few hundred dollars for this.

Its quite a relief and very nice of the local dealers I purchased from to do this for me, as there is no Nebraska Law that protects buyers against used, as-is vehicles, especially electric ones. The dmv gov website even goes as far to make it clear that right after signing, even if the car breaks down when driving home from a dealership, the dealer is not obligated to perform repairs.

Hopefully I will have a Leaf with a new battery by the end of January or February 2016! Thanks for everyones help!

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Cool. Keep us up to date on the activity that will follow (e.g. battery ordered, ETA, installation complete). We'll want to know the part #. Maybe add it to http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14102? I'm sure some would be curious to hear about your Hx and SOH numbers, over time.

Hope it all works out.

BTW, if you don't have a Carfax or Autocheck report of your car, since the VIN's at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=447176#p447176, if someone has an account w/one of these and still has some VIN runs remaining that they no longer need, it would be very interesting to hear of where the car likely resided before (e.g. where it was registered and serviced).

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Wow! Couldn't have turned out better for you. That's an exceptional used car dealer!

 

[grandizer52]

Wow dude,
congrats on that...you found a unicorn!!!!! following you around vegas...
Happy new year

 

[Evoforce]

Very good results! Congratulations, you won the battery lottery!

 

[VenatorFox]

^^^
Cool. Keep us up to date on the activity that will follow (e.g. battery ordered, ETA, installation complete). We'll want to know the part #. Maybe add it to http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14102? I'm sure some would be curious to hear about your Hx and SOH numbers, over time.

Hope it all works out.

BTW, if you don't have a Carfax or Autocheck report of your car, since the VIN's at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=447176#p447176, if someone has an account w/one of these and still has some VIN runs remaining that they no longer need, it would be very interesting to hear of where the car likely resided before (e.g. where it was registered and serviced).

WELL, I just received a call from the Nissan Dealer in Fort Collins, CO.
They told me they plugged the car in and charged to full, GOM reads 27 miles.

They said that was normal, based off driving habits from the previous owner.
Since there are 12 capacity bars they say the battery is fine, they are adamant about it.

I told them the Nissan Dealer in North Platte, NE stated that the battery would be replaced. They are not replacing it based off them though.

The dealership looks at many Nissan Leafs and have not ever heard of being able to reset the capacity bars on an old battery in their 30 years of service.

 

[Valdemar]

Yeah, everything is back to normal now. I was a bit surprised how easily they offered you a replacement with all 12 bars showing. I'm afraid you'll have to wait until the bars drop before attempting a warranty claim, that is if the computer has actually been reset.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

The dealership looks at many Nissan Leafs and have not ever heard of being able to reset the capacity bars on an old battery in their 30 years of service.

Statements like this drive me bonkers. Who cares that they have 30 years of service? The Leaf has only been sold for 5! And if they haven't heard of a capability that is as widely known as this, they aren't worth their salt. Sounds more like they are denying what they know could have easily happened (although it may not be trackable), and hoping that you just roll over to their superior "30 years of service".

 

[VenatorFox]

5 January 2016
No bars have dropped, AHr=41.72, SOH=63%, Hx=42.33%, odo=35,836

13 March 2016
1st bar dropped. AHr=41.53, SOH=63%, Hx=42.02%, odo=36,774

10 April 2016
2nd bar dropped. AHr=41.35, SOH=63%, Hx=41.72%, odo=37,281

21 May 2016
3rd bar dropped. AHr=41.16, SOH=62%, Hx=41.40%, odo=37,914

Energy Economy since 13 March 2016 is 4.1

I'm pretty sure the car spent time with its first owner in Arizona. The home is set to some random spot in Arizona in Navigation.
At this rate I suspect the 4th bar will drop within the next 600-1000ish miles.

I am fairly certain that someone reset the capacity bars.