Nissan Battery Pack Warranty Details

[stanley]

Evdriver, Well said!! The battery is a huge issue and needs to be addressed by Nissan.

 

[Skywagon]

EVdriver, you summarized my thoughts exactly. And I can say to others as well that once the EV bug has bitten you that you will completely change your mind about driving style. You will always know the exact capabilities of your car. Those few years with electric vehicles and hybrids has turned me into a permanent gas miser. I now get well over 40 mpg with my Honda Fit without even thinking about it. Efficient driving just becomes a normal/natural routine for those who do truly catch the EV bug.

But as far as the warranty issue it is the only thing that may drive a cancellation from me. I have mimial doubts about the capabilities of the battery pack; especially with how I have seen other similar chemistry packs perform. I just would like more of a warranty than just motor output. They could set that motor output threshold to where they could still call a 50% capable or worse pack still good and deny a warranty claim. A pack is only as good as it's best module. I just would like an overall capability defined warranty along with a module variation coverage of some sort. If one of the modules drops a significant percent then your pack suffers accordingly. If you have abused your pack, or it is going through normal degredation, then all the modules will age accordingly. I am concerned about having one or a few early degrading or faulty module(s) reduce the capability of the whole pack. I am hearing that Nissan does not want dealers opening the packs for service. That may be a reasoning for not specifying a specific module replacement criteria and only going with the whole pack. I guess we all need to see the official warranty in writing.

 

[LEAFer]

Since the LEAF is being sold as a 100-mile range vehicle, which I assume is based on LA4 driving cycle, then I expect nothing less than a warranted range based on the same cycle expressed as x% of the original 100 miles after y years. And possibly a set of "x" values at different #of years/miles (whichever comes first) intervals.

If the vehicle fails to meet the "x" value at a particular "y", then Nissan has the obligation to reconditon the pack to achieve "x", and, at the option of the owner (lessee is more complicated) at that time, a pro-ration kicks in which specifies the cost to the owner to refurbish the pack to a value better than "x", possibly including a new (100%) pack.

 

[abasile]

For me, buying a LEAF will come down to whether my wife lets me spend the money.

With little assurance of how well the battery will perform in a few years, I'm not going to put much effort into convincing my wife that we should make the purchase. The last thing I'd want is to have the battery basically conk out with no recourse, and be reminded of how foolishly I spent our family's money.

 

[evnow]

Nissan seems to think 70% capacity is what is needed to run Leaf.

Nissan should "repair" the battery if the capacity falls below that within the 8 years. I think they are still deciding on what to do about this. Some of the statements about the battery warranty are probably trial balloons to see what the reaction is.

 

[LEAFer]

I hate "trial balloons" :roll:

 

[DaveEV]

I am hearing that Nissan does not want dealers opening the packs for service.

Really? I heard that eventually all dealers would have trained/certified techs to diagnose and fix faulty packs.

 

[smkettner]

If somehow a battery fell into the warranty coverage would it be replaced in whole with a reconditioned unit??

 

[charlie1300]

For me, buying a LEAF will come down to whether my wife lets me spend the money.

With little assurance of how well the battery will perform in a few years, I'm not going to put much effort into convincing my wife that we should make the purchase. The last thing I'd want is to have the battery basically conk out with no recourse, and be reminded of how foolishly I spent our family's money.

So start convining you wife to lease. That takes the battery warranty issue pretty much out of play, unless the warranty is total crap. It should at least cover individual cell failure/malfunction. After three years, we should have enough real world data from independent sources on the pack to know if we can expect it to have a certain capacity after a certain # of years. Then you will have more choices, to keep the leaf or get another EV or hybrid. Leasing seems to be the solution for those of us who are having "battery warranty anxiety".

I haven't decided myself yet because I'm in the other 36 states, so have plenty of time to mull it over.

 

[smkettner]

Was there not a lot of talk about the hybrid batteries not lasting?
Those seem to have worked fine. I don't hear any issues anyway.

 

[DaveEV]

IMO - the fact that Nissan wanted to lease the battery separately from the vehicle indicates that they have confidence in the durability of the pack...

 

[smkettner]

So all these comments indicate a switch from range anxiety to battery anxiety

 

[palmermd]

So all these comments indicate a switch from range anxiety to battery anxiety

Its not so much anxiety, because the pack should be totally fine. For the majority of people buying the Leaf the battery should not have any issues. The concern is if I get a "lemon" pack for some reason, and the capacity drops off very quickly, but it still provides power, will Nissan stand behind their product and fix my faulty pack.

Use my laptop example. Right now I have a three year old laptop with a battery pack that lasts all of 5 minutes before needing to be recharged. Originally that battery lasted 2.5 hours. The battery pack has not lost any power capability, as the laptop works perfectly fine for 5 minutes, but it has lost 95% of its capacity. With the laptop i'm not upset as I'll just purchase a new battery for $150 and be back up to full capacity. With a $10,000 auto battery I want some assurance that if my pack loses 95% in a year or even if it looses 25% in the first year, there is some sort of coverage. I expect it to loose 20-30% over 8-10 years. There is a normal capacity loss curve that the batteries will follow, and I expect that if the battery is 10-20% below that curve there should be some coverage from Nissan to get me back up to "normal". Beyond the 8-10 year time frame, your on your own so to speak, but if the battery has been following the "normal" curve, you'll know exactly what to expect from the pack in the future.

 

[abasile]

The last thing I'd want is to have the battery basically conk out with no recourse, and be reminded of how foolishly I spent our family's money.

So start convining you wife to lease.

Leasing is a non-starter for us. We like to be conservative financially, avoid all non-mortgage debt, and keep our vehicles for a long time. The LEAF should be no exception. If we can't have enough confidence in a vehicle to purchase, then we won't consider it, period. I know that this topic has been discussed plenty and others feel differently, but that is our position. Hopefully this warranty "scare" does represent only a trial balloon!

 

[charlie1300]

The last thing I'd want is to have the battery basically conk out with no recourse, and be reminded of how foolishly I spent our family's money.

So start convining you wife to lease.

Leasing is a non-starter for us. We like to be conservative financially, avoid all non-mortgage debt, and keep our vehicles for a long time. The LEAF should be no exception. If we can't have enough confidence in a vehicle to purchase, then we won't consider it, period. I know that this topic has been discussed plenty and others feel differently, but that is our position. Hopefully this warranty "scare" does represent only a trial balloon!

I agree totally with your financial approach- I have no debt, I've never leased a car, and normally pay cash. Was planning to pay cash for the leaf, but will consider the lease if I don't think I can get 6-8 years of useful life(70% capacity) out of the battery pack. Still think I will save enough on gas and maintenance to make it worth while.

Oh, and "battery warranty anxiety" was an attempt at humor - I guess I need to get over my aversion to the smiley faces. :lol:

 

[Edelman]

I'm going to venture that even if Nissan knows what the curve is (which they may not yet with enough certainty to make them confident) they wouldn't say. Just imagine the contingent liability if they got it wrong.

Pressure to refine the warranty certainly seems like a good idea. At a minimum a purchaser should know if he is buying something that has been fully characterized as to how it will perform or not. There is nothing wrong with the latter so long as you are told about it beforehand and are comfortable taking the risk. Conflicts only arise when you have one expectation and the other party has another.

I'll be asking some very specific questions about what the performance of the battery is and how it is expected to degrade over time. For me that is no different than asking about the tread warranty is on a tire. I might buy one without a warranty, but I'm going to ask, and I'm going to understand how a warranty determination is made should I need to make a claim.

Nissan is going to need a set of internal policies to address battery failures. The only question is how public they will make these. My guess is that if one asks the right people one will get an accurate verbal rundown of what the real plan is. Perhaps as early adopters that will be sufficient.

 

[planet4ever]

Leasing is a non-starter for us. We like to be conservative financially, avoid all non-mortgage debt, and keep our vehicles for a long time. The LEAF should be no exception.

It seems to me that leasing is the most financially conservative position you could take. You never have a loan to pay off, and you get to defer the decision as to whether to buy the car until you have had three years experience with it.

 

[mitch672]

Leasing is a non-starter for us. We like to be conservative financially, avoid all non-mortgage debt, and keep our vehicles for a long time. The LEAF should be no exception.

It seems to me that leasing is the most financially conservative position you could take. You never have a loan to pay off, and you get to defer the decision as to whether to buy the car until you have had three years experience with it.

I agree. You also get the benefit of hearing about the other 100-150K other Leafs owners expereince (in 36 months there should be that many Leafs out), and if a pattern of issues emerges, you will be in a better position to make your defered purchase decision.

Also, let's not forget, you also are guranteed to get the $7500 federal tax credit, passed on by NIssan leasing, for some this is not a consideration as they pay pently of federal tax to offset the deduction, but not all are in this situation.

Yes, the leasing will end up costing some additional money, in the end. Think of it as an insurance policy, and a way to put the battery pack risk back onto Nissan, since they seem more than willing to attempt to put it on the early adopters.

 

[smkettner]

Yes, the leasing will end up costing some additional money, in the end. Think of it as an insurance policy, and a way to put the battery pack risk back onto Nissan, since they seem more than willing to attempt to put it on the early adopters.

I have a gut feeling at the three year mark the battery most likely will seem fine. If there is a widespread problem I think it will be quick capacity loss after the three year mark. I fully expect the battery to be fine for ten years. Just saying the three year lease as insurance may not really cover the consumer well unless this EV thing is a total flop and the batteries are about shot in 24 to 36 months.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Yes, the leasing will end up costing some additional money, in the end. Think of it as an insurance policy, and a way to put the battery pack risk back onto Nissan, since they seem more than willing to attempt to put it on the early adopters.

I have a gut feeling at the three year mark the battery most likely will seem fine. If there is a widespread problem I think it will be quick capacity loss after the three year mark. I fully expect the battery to be fine for ten years. Just saying the three year lease as insurance may not really cover the consumer well unless this EV thing is a total flop and the batteries are about shot in 24 to 36 months.

Boy, I have heard that before form EV buyers. Regardless, if an acceptable loss in three years with gentle use is 30% down then that does not work for me. The Leaf range is not a realistic 100 miles and a 30% reduction in a few years is too big a hit for me to accept. Once again, another argument for a larger onboard charger that will server longer drives and opportunity charging.