Official California SDG&E Thread

[Jimmydreams]

I'm crossing my fingers they do all three.

IMO - I don't care unless I can get access to the smart data it's collecting... Which is why I wish I could get access to the data...

At least the smart NET meter lets me see how much I've used and generated (in excess of usage) - so I do get on additional datapoint that I didn't have before.

I have dog issues as it relates to the meter-reader coming into my yard. 3 smart meters means no more meter-reader and no more dog issues.
:mrgreen:

 

[sdbonez]

So for any solar / net generation people hoping to use Google PowerMeter with their newly installed smart meter. It ain't gonna happen any time soon. I sent an email to SDG&E asking them about it and here's what they said:

We appreciate your interest in the Google PowerMeter. We?ve reviewed
your information and determined the reason you?re unable to complete
enrollment. Customers who have either photovoltaic (solar) or wind
generators, installed to serve their own energy needs and who may feed
kilowatts back into the SDG&E electric system will not be able to
register for the Google PowerMeter.

We hope this will available in the future, but unfortunately, we?re
unable to send your energy use to the Google PowerMeter at this time.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and encourage you to
periodically check our website at sdge.com for updates about Google
PowerMeter.

If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at
[email protected] or 1-800-411-7343.

Someone here posted information on how to hook up a device to monitor the smart meter directly - anyone have it? I can't seem to find it...

yeah, that was my suspicion as well... I was holding on buying a TED until I had my EVSE installed and a confirmed Leaf... but that was my plan...

 

[Randy]

Wasn't it Groundloop who posted about purchasing an imported IR reader?

Enlighten us, Mr. GL

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

OH, that. Yes.

The IR port on the digital meters (smart, net, whatever) is a standard data port, compliant with ANSI C12.18.
It's RS-232 over Infra-Red and very easy to couple to.

I built three of them. One was a hacked up IR serial cable from an Exetech multimeter, encased in a PVC 90-degree Elbow with epoxy putty.

Gen 2 was a 3D Printout and circuit board design from another hacker at solarshare.net:

My third one was a commercial unit from Tespro Electronics tspro.com.cn
ANSI optical probe $115 TP-232-ANSI-U

None of them work perfectly in full sunshine at an acute angle, so I may make a fourth one with better shielding.

Anyway, once you have the data coupler and can talk to your meter, you can "Log In" using the Customer login for the meter. Each Utility has a different one, but the SDG&E and PG&E logins seem identical and universal.

From there, you can parse the messages into whatever you like. I use Perl, and it's hacky, but it works.

So every 60 seconds I get exact kWh readings from the meter for each of the TOU timeslots, and also instantaneous demand and other info, like power factor. While you can measure these with your own transducers (like TED), I have never been able to get exact measurements that match the billed rates.

I think this meter-coupled solution is the BEST -- you get exactly the correct numbers, including PF, with no electrical connection, and it works on any load panel. (Mine uses buried bus bars, which are hard to monitor.)

 

[DaveEV]

OH, that. Yes.

Thanks - and I found your other posts on the subject, too in this thread:

San Diego Leaf Fanatics!

Now to see if it's possible to build/obtain the IR reader for substantially less - am thinking of hooking it up to an Arduino - would be nice if I can keep the entire project under $100.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Now to see if it's possible to build/obtain the IR reader for substantially less - am thinking of hooking it up to an Arduino - would be nice if I can keep the entire project under $100.

An arduino would be a good match, but ultimately the data has to post somewhere. Unless you're going to run the full HTTP server on the Arduino, it will pump data out to something, over some interface (RS-232, SDIO, USB..) At that point, the host computer might as well do all the heavy lifting. It's low bandwidth -- not much win to having Arduino pre-digest it. The meter itself keeps accurate 'totals' (of course!), so don't have to have a dedicated totalizer to track overall usage.

At least, that's how I figured it and just sent the RS-232 to a linux box running RRD and Apache. You can get USB ANSI adapters, but I was more confident about running the RS-232 over 100' of CAT5 than USB.

One device that would ROCK would be an ANSI opticoupler with a small bluetooth/Zigbee/WiFi radio built-in. Now you just need a thin power cable to power it, and then you can receive the wireless data anywhere.

Taking it one step further would be reverse-engineering the AMI / Zigbee connection that's already in the Smart Meters and really going first-class. I bought an Atmel AVR Raven, but haven't had luck connecting to the AMI yet. With the number of smart meters rolling out, this might be one of those projects where procrastination pays off as SOMEONE is going to go sniff their own gas/electric meter AMI and post up.

 

[DaveEV]

Lots of good ideas there. My meter is about 40-50 ft away from the nearest network / PC. Getting a network cable run there might be possible which would eliminate the cost of the Arduino - though it would be nice to have the data polling work on a standalone box so I don't have to keep the PC on (not that it's not already on all the time, anyway).

I agree - the ANSI opticoupler w/a Zigbee adapter would be close to perfect so that the wire could be eliminated - will have to do more research there. Looks like you can get an Arduino to talk Zigbee but once you have an Arduino you might want to just do WiFi anyway...

 

[wsbca]

I just got the call from SDG&E tonight about them installing a smart meter at my house. It'll be interesting to see if they replace only meter 1 (MAIN meter) with smart, and meter 2 (solar production for Ca rebate) and/or meter 3 (SDG&E EV Experimental TOU rate meter). I'm crossing my fingers they do all three.

FWIW, I also have a TED monitoring system installed and THAT talks to Google Powermeter just fine.

SDG&E just swapped in our net-metering compatible smart meter today. Jimmy, how many smart meters did you end up with?

Too bad about them not tying to Powermeter - I think I'm going to have to ask my wife for a 3-pickup TED for my birthday.

 

[Uccello]

So last year SDGE stopped installing the Smartmeters for those people on Netmetering with a PV system because the Smartmeter wouldn't run backwards. Has that been fixed now? Does it run backwards and are you getting about the same net generation as you were before they changed the meters?

thanks-

-u

 

[Jimmydreams]

I just got the call from SDG&E tonight about them installing a smart meter at my house. It'll be interesting to see if they replace only meter 1 (MAIN meter) with smart, and meter 2 (solar production for Ca rebate) and/or meter 3 (SDG&E EV Experimental TOU rate meter). I'm crossing my fingers they do all three.

FWIW, I also have a TED monitoring system installed and THAT talks to Google Powermeter just fine.

SDG&E just swapped in our net-metering compatible smart meter today. Jimmy, how many smart meters did you end up with?

Too bad about them not tying to Powermeter - I think I'm going to have to ask my wife for a 3-pickup TED for my birthday.

So far, zero. :shock: I'm still waiting on the contractor to come by. HOPEFULLY by the end of this week.....tomorrow is my next scheduled meter-read, so maybe they try and come out in conjunction with that?? SDG&E uses a subcontractor (IIRC) to do the swap, so who knows when they'll be in North County. (shrug)

I like my TED....right now I'm trying to figure out how I can get it to properly ignore my EVSE numbers, but so far, I'm drawing a blank. There is a fix, but I don't have enough wire in the box to properly do it, so I may be stuck. Oh well, it's an informational tool only, so no worries. :mrgreen:

 

[DaveEV]

So last year SDGE stopped installing the Smartmeters for those people on Netmetering with a PV system because the Smartmeter wouldn't run backwards. Has that been fixed now? Does it run backwards and are you getting about the same net generation as you were before they changed the meters?

Yes, they figured it out.

http://www.sdge.com/nem/

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

They don't seem to coordinate the meter installs with the meter read visits. I suspect those are unrelated schedules and people.

The meter installation (for non-net) wasn't even done by SDG&E, but a subcontractor.

 

[ENIAC]

Does anyone in the EV Project have a smart meter? I don't have PV. In my case, SDG&E installed a smart meter last July. Our EVSE was installed in Dec. When SDG&E came out to install a meter on the EVSE circuit, they removed our smart meter. They then installed two GE digital meters but they aren't networked and you can't read them via Google Power Meter. I sent an email to SDG&E about this and received the following response.

You no longer have a Smart Meter on your home. Currently our Time of Use rates need to be metered with an Interval Data Recording (IDR) meter. These do not provide real time (immediate) feedback to iGoogle as the Smart Meters do.

Then a couple of weeks ago I received a letter from SDG&E stating that they were going to install a smart meter. The installation was for this morning. A moment ago they called and said sorry we can't install a smart meter on your property because you have an EV circuit with TOU billing. That is not compatible with our smart meters. I read where many of you with PV and ToU are getting smart meters. I wonder why without PV I can't get one?

 

[Jimmydreams]

Does anyone in the EV Project have a smart meter? I don't have PV. In my case, SDG&E installed a smart meter last July. Our EVSE was installed in Dec. When SDG&E came out to install a meter on the EVSE circuit, they removed our smart meter. They then installed two GE digital meters but they aren't networked and you can't read them via Google Power Meter. I sent an email to SDG&E about this and received the following response.

You no longer have a Smart Meter on your home. Currently our Time of Use rates need to be metered with an Interval Data Recording (IDR) meter. These do not provide real time (immediate) feedback to iGoogle as the Smart Meters do.

Then a couple of weeks ago I received a letter from SDG&E stating that they were going to install a smart meter. The installation was for this morning. A moment ago they called and said sorry we can't install a smart meter on your property because you have an EV circuit with TOU billing. That is not compatible with our smart meters. I read where many of you with PV and ToU are getting smart meters. I wonder why without PV I can't get one?

I am in the EVP and have PV with net metering. I ALSO have the EV meter. Currently, all three meters are GE digital (non-smart meters).

I received a letter about 1 week ago and a phone call about 2 weeks ago saying that they'll be installing a smart meter on my house. I have heard/seen nothing since, and still have my old GE digital meters. I'll let you know if they change 1, 2, or all 3 of them.

 

[jcesare]

Does anyone in the EV Project have a smart meter? I don't have PV. In my case, SDG&E installed a smart meter last July. Our EVSE was installed in Dec. When SDG&E came out to install a meter on the EVSE circuit, they removed our smart meter. They then installed two GE digital meters but they aren't networked and you can't read them via Google Power Meter. I sent an email to SDG&E about this and received the following response.

You no longer have a Smart Meter on your home. Currently our Time of Use rates need to be metered with an Interval Data Recording (IDR) meter. These do not provide real time (immediate) feedback to iGoogle as the Smart Meters do.

Then a couple of weeks ago I received a letter from SDG&E stating that they were going to install a smart meter. The installation was for this morning. A moment ago they called and said sorry we can't install a smart meter on your property because you have an EV circuit with TOU billing. That is not compatible with our smart meters. I read where many of you with PV and ToU are getting smart meters. I wonder why without PV I can't get one?

The Google Power Meter data feed from SDG&E has been down for a week now. Maybe they are trying to integrate the two metering systems?

 

[wsbca]

I am in the EVP and have PV with net metering. I ALSO have the EV meter. Currently, all three meters are GE digital (non-smart meters).

Jimmy - do you reckon the EV digital meter is pre-programmed with the time windows for the TOU rates, so when they come and read it in person they will manually record the readings for the different slices? Can you actually see those distinct values accumulating on the (presumably rotating) display?

ENIAC - we are on our third day with our single smart meter, with PV, in the EV project, but using schedule DR (no TOU).

Sounds like the attempted re-install of a smart meter was perhaps triggered in the same way that our recent install was - the "catch-up" round for net metering users and maybe anyone else (you) that didn't have one, but not coordinated with the fact that you are in the EV Project.

When the guy came to install our smart meter earlier this week, my wife happened to be home and asked him if it was compatible with our PV and our EV Project EVSE and he hesitated and said "but you aren't doing the dual meter" and she confirmed that indeed we were not, so he proceeded...I got the impression that he knew that the dual meter setup was not smart meter compatible at this time, regardless of whether we had PV...

 

[Jimmydreams]

Jimmy - do you reckon the EV digital meter is pre-programmed with the time windows for the TOU rates, so when they come and read it in person they will manually record the readings for the different slices? Can you actually see those distinct values accumulating on the (presumably rotating) display?

My guess is that the meter isn't programmed in any way at all....it simply reports what power was used when. Once that data gets into SDG&E's computer, THAT system crunches the data and decides what rate to apply to what chunk of data. Since the GE meters aren't 'smart', they would have to be manually reprogrammed every time there was a rate change. That's easier to do on the mainframe computer.

 

[wsbca]

Jimmy - do you reckon the EV digital meter is pre-programmed with the time windows for the TOU rates, so when they come and read it in person they will manually record the readings for the different slices? Can you actually see those distinct values accumulating on the (presumably rotating) display?

My guess is that the meter isn't programmed in any way at all....it simply reports what power was used when. Once that data gets into SDG&E's computer, THAT system crunches the data and decides what rate to apply to what chunk of data. Since the GE meters aren't 'smart', they would have to be manually reprogrammed every time there was a rate change. That's easier to do on the mainframe computer.

So when the human comes to read your GE meter, they'll suck a bunch of raw data out of it with an interface of some kind, rather than visually reading values on the display? (I guess I'm assuming that in addition to not being 'smart', it's not wirelessly networked...)

 

[Jimmydreams]

So when the human comes to read your GE meter, they'll suck a bunch of raw data out of it with an interface of some kind, rather than visually reading values on the display? (I guess I'm assuming that in addition to not being 'smart', it's not wirelessly networked...)

Yep...they plug an IR reader onto each meter and it takes about 1-2 minutes to download all the data into the handheld reader. The human doesn't enter any data (that I've seen, anyway!)

 

[garygid]

Jimmy,
I do not understand having 3 SDG&E meters.

I understand one PU meter for EV usage and one PU meter for Home (or Total) usage, depending upon how the EV meter is wired (series or parallel).

However, a 3rd meter would measure your PV generation?
If so, it is a private meter, not read by SDG&E, right?