Official Tesla Model S thread

[SteveInSeattle]

Here is a quoted section from Tesla's SEC filing of November 2011:
Moreover, it has been reported that many of the large OEMs such as BMW, Daimler, Lexus, Audi, Renault and Volkswagen are also developing electric vehicles. Several new start-ups have also announced plans to enter the market for performance electric vehicles, although none of these have yet come to market. Finally, electric vehicles have already been brought to market in China and other foreign countries and we expect a number of those manufacturers to enter the United States market as well.

Most of our current and potential competitors have significantly greater financial, technical, manufacturing, marketing and other resources than we do and may be able to devote greater resources to the design, development, manufacturing, distribution, promotion, sale and support of their products. Virtually all of our competitors have more extensive customer bases and broader customer and industry relationships than we do. In addition, almost all of these companies have longer operating histories and greater name recognition than we do. Our competitors may be in a stronger position to respond quickly to new technologies and may be able to design, develop, market and sell their products more effectively.

They are required to inform investors as to all foreseeable risks, but doesn't this one seem VERY SIGNIFICANT? Volkswagen is shooting to become the number one auto manufacturer in the world. Given their total sales of 8 million vehicles per year-- they can out-spend, out-wait and out-market Tesla by factors of hundreds or even thousands! And that's not to mention BMW, Daimler and Toyota (Lexus)

 

[evnow]

They are required to inform investors as to all foreseeable risks, but doesn't this one seem VERY SIGNIFICANT? Volkswagen is shooting to become the number one auto manufacturer in the world. Given their total sales of 8 million vehicles per year-- they can out-spend, out-wait and out-market Tesla by factors of hundreds or even thousands! And that's not to mention BMW, Daimler and Toyota (Lexus)

It is difficult to see Tesla as an independent producer for years to come. Most likely they will be bought out and become the luxury/ev brand of a major OEM.

Ofcourse VW is still stuck in "clean" diesel.

 

[TEG]

Ofcourse VW is still stuck in "clean" diesel.

Perhaps not for too much longer...
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110616/CARNEWS/110619900" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.plugincars.com/volkswagen-promises-trio-evs-2013.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[evnow]

Ofcourse VW is still stuck in "clean" diesel.

Perhaps not for too much longer...
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110616/CARNEWS/110619900" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.plugincars.com/volkswagen-promises-trio-evs-2013.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Those conversions don't look anything like Tesla competitors.

But more to the point, VW isn't still investing much in EVs. Infact VW opposed the new EPA CAFE proposals.

 

[N952JL]

They are required to inform investors as to all foreseeable risks, but doesn't this one seem VERY SIGNIFICANT? Volkswagen is shooting to become the number one auto manufacturer in the world. Given their total sales of 8 million vehicles per year-- they can out-spend, out-wait and out-market Tesla by factors of hundreds or even thousands! And that's not to mention BMW, Daimler and Toyota (Lexus)

It is difficult to see Tesla as an independent producer for years to come. Most likely they will be bought out and become the luxury/ev brand of a major OEM.

Ofcourse VW is still stuck in "clean" diesel.

You do remember that Daimer and Toyota already own an interest in Tesla. That's one reason Tesla has the old Toyota plant for the S.

 

[Herm]

Tesla has one thing that VW does not have.. Elon Musk, Nissan has Ghosn and that is why we have the Leaf..

 

[davewill]

... They are required to inform investors as to all foreseeable risks, but doesn't this one seem VERY SIGNIFICANT? ...

Those other companies are missing the WILL and DRIVE to enter the market in a big way...sure they COULD go all in and overwhelm Tesla, but they probably won't, and even if they try, might not be nimble enough to catch up quickly.

 

[DrInnovation]

Well todays announcement by toyata will relieve some of that fear.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-16/toyota-ends-go-it-alone-strategy-with-bmw-tesla-alliances-cars.html?cmpid=yhoo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Increase the chance that Telsa will be acquired rather than killed. I still don't see them being viable standlone, though I'd be happy if I was wrong.

 

[evnow]

Well todays announcement by toyata will relieve some of that fear.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-16/toyota-ends-go-it-alone-strategy-with-bmw-tesla-alliances-cars.html?cmpid=yhoo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Increase the chance that Telsa will be acquired rather than killed. I still don't see them being viable standlone, though I'd be happy if I was wrong.

There is no new announcement by Toyota w.r.t. Tesla.

Toyoda agreed this month to equip some Toyota cars with Bayerische Motoren Werke AG diesel engines, building on an earlier deal to use Tesla Motors Inc. (TSLA) battery packs in future electric vehicles.

 

[DrInnovation]

Well todays announcement by toyata will relieve some of that fear.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-16/toyota-ends-go-it-alone-strategy-with-bmw-tesla-alliances-cars.html?cmpid=yhoo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Increase the chance that Telsa will be acquired rather than killed. I still don't see them being viable standlone, though I'd be happy if I was wrong.

There is no new announcement by Toyota w.r.t. Tesla.

Toyoda agreed this month to equip some Toyota cars with Bayerische Motoren Werke AG diesel engines, building on an earlier deal to use Tesla Motors Inc. (TSLA) battery packs in future electric vehicles.

True, but I see Toyota partnering with BMW is showing a more of a real change in their culture, making the relationship with Tesla potentially more than just a minor battery pack supplier for its niche RAV4 for CA only. The battery for RAV4 deal was announced in May 2010, and much has changed since then, so good to see them branching out with more partnerships.

 

[Brightonuk]

But we are not looking at apples to apples, the Tesla S is a high end luxury sedan with a comparable say BMW 750 and at over $130K for the top end they are in the Aston Martin territory yes VW did have the Phaeton or Proton or something like that but it is a different animal what do they have now as a high end luxury motor?

IMO Tesla will state there place as Aston has, they appeal to most of us if only we could afford one.
I think they will end up selling enough to not only survive but to thrive in this new market as long as they can get the S to market within a reasonable time and that’s where I fear they will fall short, case in point the delays Nissan went through to get the Leaf out to anywhere other than Ca.......... and they had unlimited resources.

 

[Jagular]

We leased the Leaf exactly because we wanted a Model S. I know this doesn't make a lot of sense. Essentially, we decided to lease the Leaf for three years, knowing that the technology will improve, probably dramatically, in the next three years, and that Tesla will be on the forefront. With the Roadster and the Model S experience under them, we expect that we'll be ready to lease/buy the Model S (or the next gen Roadster) at the end of the Leaf lease.

 

[Brightonuk]

Still waiting for the Florida Powerball then Im in

 

[KevinSharpe]

options and prices announced

http://www.teslamotors.com/models/options

 

[mitch672]

options and prices announced

http://www.teslamotors.com/models/options

Its seems there is no limit to the amount of money you can choose the spend on the Model S, $750/$1500 premium paint, $5,000 fancy packages, theres no end to it... again proving this is a car for the ultra rich, and not the "ordinary joe"

Although I must say I am impressed by the "standard" 10KW onboard charger, and you can get an optional 2nd 10KW charger, for a total of 20KW (needs a 100A 240V Circuit to do that), its pricey, but they have it, and it can recharge up to 62 miles/hour with the 20KW option.. impressive, that a fully emptied 300 mile range model S can be recharged in 5 hours with that setup.

Also, evnow, note they have said the "range" (160/240/300 miles) is based on 55mph, so at least they have qualified how they got their range estimates.

 

[KevinSharpe]

again proving this is a car for the ultra rich, and not the "ordinary joe"

many people I know consider the Leaf a luxury purchase... why not just celebrate the fact that a high end electric car is coming

 

[KevinSharpe]

needs a 100A 240V Circuit to do that

In the UK we already have a national network of 70A chargers built by EV enthusiasts and Tesla;

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...Charging-Network?p=67954&viewfull=1#post67954

 

[DaveEV]

Pricing is pretty much as expected. For $60k (before tax credits) you can get a 7-passenger vehicle with ~115mi freeway range - 60% more than the LEAF. Yes, it also costs a bit more than 60% more than the LEAF!

The only real drawback of the Model S is that there is no quick charge option on the smaller battery packs (TBD even on the 60 kWh pack) - kind of backwards if you ask me as it's the cars with the smaller packs need quick charging even more.

At least the standard charge level is 10 kW - 3x faster than the LEAF and the cost for being able to "twin charge" (20 kW charging) is a nominal $1500 option which is "almost quick" charging. Those standard charging rates really blow the LEAF's standard charge rates out of the water - you really have to expect 6.6 kW minimum charging now to make the most of opportunity charging.

 

[Boomer23]

Note in the Tesla pricing announcement the availability dates of the various battery options:

40 kWh, 160 mile: Winter 2012 (note that winter officially starts on Dec 22)
60 kWh, 230 mile: Fall 2012
85 kWh, 300 mile and Performance and Signature versions with same battery and range: Summer 2012

EDIT: My bad, these are the dates for these models to "enter production". Delivery dates not stated.

 

[edatoakrun]

Does it seem a bit odd, to anyone else, that specs are listed right down to the optional “Banana Leaf Décor accents”, but weight is not listed, for any of the versions?

Did I miss it somewhere, or is it time to begin guessing?