Official Tesla Model S thread

[mitch672]

Does it seem a bit odd, to anyone else, that specs are listed right down to the optional “Banana Leaf Décor accents”, but weight is not listed, for any of the versions?

Did I miss it somewhere, or is it time to begin guessing?

There's so many "options", it's probably impossible to put down a single weight. Plus, they havn't actually produced any "production models" yet, yes they have the "alphas", those are not production models for sale to the public.

 

[evnow]

The only real drawback of the Model S is that there is no quick charge option on the smaller battery packs (TBD even on the 60 kWh pack) - kind of backwards if you ask me as it's the cars with the smaller packs need quick charging even more.

At least the standard charge level is 10 kW - 3x faster than the LEAF and the cost for being able to "twin charge" (20 kW charging) is a nominal $1500 option which is "almost quick" charging.

Yes - the lack of QC in the 40kWh trim is probably a deal breaker for me. Infiniti EV with nearly the same miles (130 vs 160 ?) and QC (which should be available by 2014 !) for probably $10K less and a much more manageable size looks more attractive.

BTW, their is a $3.5K tech option to even get the nav. The base model without any options is rather bare.

To get Nav & quick charge, you have to pay $70k !

 

[surfingslovak]

BTW, their is a $3.5K tech option to even get the nav. The base model without any options is rather bare.

To get Nav & quick charge, you have to pay $70k !

Yes, they clearly want to incent prospective buyers to go with the premium trim. Nothing wrong with that, Nissan did not offer QC on the base model either. Without question, this price sheet will shrink Tesla's addressable market. Although, I suspect that they won't have any difficulty meeting their sales targets.

I've noticed that the base model should achieve 160 miles of range at 55 mph, presumably when driving on the freeway. A quick back-of-the-napkin calculation suggests that the overall aerodynamics is not as good as I thought it would be. I'm getting a drag coefficient of roughly 0.23 or perhaps 0.24. The total drag somewhere in this range, which is much less impressive:

6.90 - 1993 Saturn Wagon
6.93 - 1982 Delorean
6.96 - 1988 Porsche 944 S
6.96 - 1995 Chevy Lumina LS
7.02 - 1992 BMW 325I
7.04 - 1991 Honda Civic EX
7.10 - 1995 Saab 900
7.14 - 1995 Subaru Legacy L
7.34 - 2001 Honda Civic
---------------------------
Automobile examples of ACd ft²

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i am guessing car size (7 passenger) is the reason. all i can say is this is a LOT different than what was portrayed in Spring of 2010. i know a few that declined the Leaf due to late delivery and opted to wait a "few extra months" for the Tesla.

both opted for the shorter range and will be really put off by no QC and all the additional cost add ons. i am surprised NAV is an extra cost. we all assumed it was part of the standard package.

 

[DrInnovation]

Yes, they clearly want to incent prospective buyers to go with the premium trim. Nothing wrong with that, Nissan did not offer QC on the base model either. Without question, this price sheet will shrink Tesla's addressable market. Although, I suspect that they won't have any difficulty meeting their sales targets.

I've noticed that the base model should achieve 160 miles of range at 55 mph, presumably when driving on the freeway. A quick back-of-the-napkin calculation suggests that the overall aerodynamics is not as impressive as I thought it would be. I'm getting a drag coefficient of roughly 0.23 or perhaps 0.24 and total drag somewhere in this range:
snip

Road and track http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-cars/first/just-unveiled!-2012-tesla-model-s
state it has

CD of 0.26 versus the Roadster's 0.35

 

[evnow]

Yes, they clearly want to incent prospective buyers to go with the premium trim. Nothing wrong with that, Nissan did not offer QC on the base model either. Without question, this price sheet will shrink Tesla's addressable market. Although, I suspect that they won't have any difficulty meeting their sales targets.

Well - to get QC for Leaf, you had to spend an extra $3k - not $10k like with S. That is a big jump.

No - I don't think Tesla will be able to meet their 20K sales target, if their 40kWh option becomes unacceptable.

 

[KeiJidosha]

BTW, their is a $3.5K tech option to even get the nav. The base model without any options is rather bare.

To get Nav & quick charge, you have to pay $70k !

Yes, they clearly want to incent prospective buyers to go with the premium trim. Nothing wrong with that, Nissan did not offer QC on the base model either.

Nor did Mitsubishi on the base model i. Stealth price adjustment (increase) S.O.P.

 

[surfingslovak]

Road and track http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-cars/first/just-unveiled!-2012-tesla-model-s
state it has

CD of 0.26 versus the Roadster's 0.35

Yes, thanks for responding. I believe you picked up the link from Wikipedia, and that article is no longer accessible. Be it as it may, there was some speculation on the Tesla forum about the drag coefficient on production cars. Some believe that it could be as low as 0.22, and I jumped at the opportunity to use the new data Tesla put forward in regards to estimated range.

Well - to get QC for Leaf, you had to spend an extra $3k - not $10k like with S. That is a big jump.

No - I don't think Tesla will be able to meet their 20K sales target, if their 40kWh option becomes unacceptable.

Hmm, the 20K sales target seems awfully high. They are probably OK for next year, since they were aiming to sell about quarter of that number. Look at the QC price relative to the total base model price. I'm getting 10% for the Leaf and about 17% for the Tesla. Yes, it's painful and annoying, but it's not such a big difference on relative basis. I could care less about the premium features in Leaf's SL model, but more battery capacity plus QC might be tempting. Perhaps that's what Tesla is counting on.

 

[DaveEV]

I've noticed that the base model should achieve 160 miles of range at 55 mph, presumably when driving on the freeway. A quick back-of-the-napkin calculation suggests that the overall aerodynamics is not as good as I thought it would be. I'm getting a drag coefficient of roughly 0.23 or perhaps 0.24.

Blame the insanely huge 19-21" wheels. They should have stuck with 18" wheels max. Or at least shrunk the wheel options an inch in both sizes. I wonder how wide the tires are, my guesses for tire sizes are:

245/45/19 for the 19" wheels
245/35/21 for the 21" wheels

Something around 225/55/17 would provide noticeable benefit (man the aero wheel option is ugly!), at of course the expensive of handling. With the price race they're in they have to make sure the car looks as good as possible, and unfortunately - big wheels look good. But no one's going to want to shell out big bucks for a car that looks like the LEAF. They want something that looks athletic, fast and graceful. Can't do that with wheels/tires that look better on a skateboard.

Tesla has done an amazingly good job and keeping efficiency up in spite of the size of the vehicle.

Look at how poor their plug-in-hybrid competition (Fisker Karma) does in comparison - 65 kWh per 100 miles? OUCH! The Model S will be 50% better than that, probably around 40 kWh per 100 miles.

 

[evnow]

Hmm, the 20K sales target seems awfully high. They are probably OK for next year, since they were aiming to sell about quarter of that number. Look at the QC price relative to the total base model price. I'm getting 10% for the Leaf and about 17% for the Tesla. Yes, it's painful and annoying, but it's not such a big difference on relative basis. I could care less about the premium features in Leaf's SL model, but more battery capacity plus QC might be tempting. Perhaps that's what Tesla is counting on.

But from browsing Tesla Forum, my impression is that most of the 160 milers are already stretching to get to that mark and will not spend extra just for QC.

I think Tesla would have to revise this decision sooner or later.

 

[surfingslovak]

I think Tesla would have to revise this decision sooner or later.

Yes, I hope so too.

 

[cwerdna]

Did anyone notice the different battery mileage expirations depending on the capacity? It's under battery specs. It's too bad that http://www.teslamotors.com/models/options" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is mostly bitmaps, thus unsearchable.

I only noticed that since http://www.green.autoblog.com/2011/12/20/tesla-announces-pricing-options-and-battery-specs-for-2012-mode/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; mentioned it.

I'm w/evnow about the car being pricey, esp. about having to pay for the $3750 package to get nav.

 

[Caracalover]

Tesla is a class act, and they are the leader - others will follow where they go.

Keep in mind they are marketing to the entire world, not just selected markets - the high end market is where they want to put production, and they can make money from each and every sale, something they need to do more than make the common 50K car buyer happy. Roadster owners have been given priority ordering, as have the folks that ponied up 40K already. These people are trend setters, and they put the money in so we can all benefit.

I am very impressed that the longer range battery pack will be the first on the road. That will make the followers (Nissan, Ford, GM, BMW, etc.) feel inferior (Just like the roadster has done), and that will aid all future EV's.

I would love to buy one of these, but I may wait for the next lower cost sedan Tesla will make. The Leaf I own will become a second car at that point, and all my ICE's may go away forever.

 

[DrInnovation]

Road and track http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-cars/first/just-unveiled!-2012-tesla-model-s
state it has

CD of 0.26 versus the Roadster's 0.35

Yes, thanks for responding. I believe you picked up the link from Wikipedia, and that article is no longer accessible. Be it as it may, there was some speculation on the Tesla forum about the drag coefficient on production cars. Some believe that it could be as low as 0.22, and I jumped at the opportunity to use the new data Tesla put forward in regards to estimated range.

Thanks for insulting me saying I'm quoting wikipedia.. I found it by google (remembered reading it back when I was seriously following tesla. ) Link is still active as I just visited it to pull the number (I remembered the article not the number).
That was, of course, early 2009, and things can change so it could have been .26 and maybe they found a way to lower it.

 

[trentr]

Tesla is a class act, and they are the leader - others will follow where they go.

Keep in mind they are marketing to the entire world, not just selected markets - the high end market is where they want to put production, and they can make money from each and every sale, something they need to do more than make the common 50K car buyer happy. Roadster owners have been given priority ordering, as have the folks that ponied up 40K already. These people are trend setters, and they put the money in so we can all benefit.

I am very impressed that the longer range battery pack will be the first on the road. That will make the followers (Nissan, Ford, GM, BMW, etc.) feel inferior (Just like the roadster has done), and that will aid all future EV's.

I would love to buy one of these, but I may wait for the next lower cost sedan Tesla will make. The Leaf I own will become a second car at that point, and all my ICE's may go away forever.

I'll take air-cooled specifically designed EV batteries to a liquid cooled laptop battery any day. In terms of number of EVs sold, Nissan is the leader.

 

[surfingslovak]

Thanks for insulting me saying I'm quoting wikipedia.. I found it by google (remembered reading it back when I was seriously following tesla. ) Link is still active as I just visited it to pull the number (I remembered the article not the number).
That was, of course, early 2009, and things can change so it could have been .26 and maybe they found a way to lower it.

Didn't mean to insult anyone. For what it's worth, I was pretty active on Wikipedia as a contributor a few moons ago. Things can get emotional on this forum, but we exchanged PMs before, and I thought that we were on friendly terms. I was under the impression that you were not following this topic, which would explain the reference to this article. Thank you for clearing that up. I have no idea what the drag coefficient for production cars will be and I appreciate any comments on the topic.

 

[evnow]

These people are trend setters, and they put the money in so we can all benefit.

Huh ?

Your post looks like a sycophant's praise for a dictator :lol:

 

[mitch672]

"Dear leader Elon, please add the fast charge option on the lowly 40Kw
Model S, thank you your dear followers"

 

[Herm]

Did anyone notice the different battery mileage expirations depending on the capacity?

Also the bigger the battery the more power (acceleration) you have, yes its fascinating and promises to be subject of many posts on the forums.

Any guesses how may reservations Tesla will get by January?.. All hail the Dear Leader!

 

[cwerdna]

Did anyone notice the different battery mileage expirations depending on the capacity?

Also the bigger the battery the more power (acceleration) you have, yes its fascinating and promises to be subject of many posts on the forums.

Woah... I missed that too. That seems odd given that I'd think that ones w/lower capacity ought to be lighter and thus accelerate in less time.

I wonder if there's a lower maximum voltage or some intentional crippling?