Official Tesla Model S thread

[Caracalover]

These people are trend setters, and they put the money in so we can all benefit.

Huh ?

Your post looks like a sycophant's praise for a dictator :lol:

If it wasn't for the Tesla roadster, do you really think this forum would exist at all? I am a Tesla stock holder though, so take that for what it is.

 

[evnow]

If it wasn't for the Tesla roadster, do you really think this forum would exist at all? I am a Tesla stock holder though, so take that for what it is.

Ofcource - Ghosn made the decision in 2006 years before Roadster came out based on peak oil concerns.

 

[Caracalover]

Tesla is a class act, and they are the leader - others will follow where they go.

Keep in mind they are marketing to the entire world, not just selected markets - the high end market is where they want to put production, and they can make money from each and every sale, something they need to do more than make the common 50K car buyer happy. Roadster owners have been given priority ordering, as have the folks that ponied up 40K already. These people are trend setters, and they put the money in so we can all benefit.

I am very impressed that the longer range battery pack will be the first on the road. That will make the followers (Nissan, Ford, GM, BMW, etc.) feel inferior (Just like the roadster has done), and that will aid all future EV's.

I would love to buy one of these, but I may wait for the next lower cost sedan Tesla will make. The Leaf I own will become a second car at that point, and all my ICE's may go away forever.

I'll take air-cooled specifically designed EV batteries to a liquid cooled laptop battery any day. In terms of number of EVs sold, Nissan is the leader.

Nissan can build and sell more, but Tesla was the first to do so. Now they are offering a 300 mile range EV - something I do not see anywhere else right now even in a specifically designed EV batteries wrapper. Perhaps in a few years Nissan, Toyota, or GM might get there, but Tesla has it now, again leading the others to greater things.

Creating a floorboard battery pack makes a lot of sense - more so than a hump in the back of the car - so design wise Tesla is leading as well. Not bad for a car maker with only two models.

 

[Caracalover]

If it wasn't for the Tesla roadster, do you really think this forum would exist at all? I am a Tesla stock holder though, so take that for what it is.

Ofcource - Ghosn made the decision in 2006 years before Roadster came out based on peak oil concerns.

So why wasn't it brought to market until after the Roadster had been on the road for a year?

 

[DaveEV]

Also the bigger the battery the more power (acceleration) you have, yes its fascinating and promises to be subject of many posts on the forums.

Woah... I missed that too. That seems odd given that I'd think that ones w/lower capacity ought to be lighter and thus accelerate in less time.

I wonder if there's a lower maximum voltage or some intentional crippling?

No, nothing intentional.

Larger packs are physically able to handle larger amounts of power since that power is spread over more cells.

Now the 40 kWh pack is lighter than the other two, but not by enough to offset the benefit of having 50%+ more power capability.

 

[Herm]

Ofcource - Ghosn made the decision in 2006 years before Roadster came out based on peak oil concerns.

I thought Ghosn reacted to the Volt, and GM reacted to Tesla?

 

[evnow]

So why wasn't it brought to market until after the Roadster had been on the road for a year?

Because it takes 4 or 5 years to bring a new car to the market ...

 

[evnow]

Ofcource - Ghosn made the decision in 2006 years before Roadster came out based on peak oil concerns.

I thought Ghosn reacted to the Volt, and GM reacted to Tesla?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=575" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2006 : Ghosn overruled Nissan’s researchers and approved high-volume EV manufacturing (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... EVrzt2t.8o)

January 2007 : Shimon Peres, Ghosn, Shai Agassi agree to build an EV infrastructure (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... EVrzt2t.8o)

 

[Jay]

I've always thought 200 miles (not 300) was the sweet spot. I know it is for myself. So with their 60 kWh, middle of the road version, coming in at an estimated 230, it probably will be decently close to ideal.

Personally, I have been waiting for Infiniti and their offering, but I would/will buy this instead in a second. $59,900 is reasonable for what you get (230 miles), especially when you have to believe that the Infiniti is going to be around $50k+. Heck, I'll likely spring for the 300 miler, I don't need it...but it is cool, lol.

That being said. I have zero trust/faith in Tesla that if I ordered this car I would actually receive it close to on time, for the proper price...or maybe at all if delays bog it down. This car/brand just doesn't come with the warm, fuzzy blanket of a major OEM.

Put one on a lot (I have two nearby) that I can drive away with and you have a sale. No deposit and hibernate for me...already done that a couple times.

 

[edatoakrun]

If it wasn't for the Tesla roadster, do you really think this forum would exist at all? I am a Tesla stock holder though, so take that for what it is.

Ofcource - Ghosn made the decision in 2006 years before Roadster came out based on peak oil concerns.

So why wasn't it brought to market until after the Roadster had been on the road for a year?

For perspective, consider:

The Tesla roadster is a BEV conversion of a Lotus-built ICEV design.

Nissan builds more BEVs each month, than Tesla has in it's entire existence.

I wish Tesla luck in the launch of it's first unique car design- the S.

And I think it may need it...

 

[keydiver]

Wow, what a turn off. Are they trying to piss me off or what? So now their $50,000 model, which is what I have been seriously considering, is having quite a few of the features converted to "options", adding many thousands of dollars on to the price? :x
It was bad enough knowing I would have to wait >1 year for it, but now I also find out I can only have it in plain black or white (almost as bad as Henry Ford), no navigation, Homelink, keyless entry, or backup camera, reduced performance, smaller wheels and tires than they have previously displayed, and access denied to their quick charge network they are building! And they are also reducing the battery warranty, when compared to the high-priced models. I think I'll just keep the Leaf then, thank you very much.

 

[Caracalover]

So why wasn't it brought to market until after the Roadster had been on the road for a year?

Because it takes 4 or 5 years to bring a new car to the market ...

Yet a start up car company could, and did? Good time line you posted - I am as happy to support Nissan in the EV effort as I am Tesla. Some see it as a competition I suppose, I see it as comrades in a revolution. Plenty of room for both, but Tesla has had many hurdles to overcome that Nissan did not - yet they did make a BEV that works. Not an easy task so I cut them a lot of slack, and will always see them as leaders in that revolution. Perhaps that is the American in me. I still don't think many people would even consider an EV if the Leaf was the first one to enter the market. While I think NIssan made a great car it was Tesla that created a buzz about EV's - no doubt about that.

 

[evnow]

Personally, I have been waiting for Infiniti and their offering, but I would/will buy this instead in a second. $59,900 is reasonable for what you get (230 miles), especially when you have to believe that the Infiniti is going to be around $50k+. Heck, I'll likely spring for the 300 miler, I don't need it...but it is cool, lol.

Infiniti EV was teased at $47K (before credits) with a focus group - and some 130 mile range.

The 230 miler S will be $69K (before credits). The 160 miler is $57K.

Currently the 160 miler isn't looking competitive compared to the Infiniti EV. I don't think too many will jump from 160 to 230 ($10k is a big jump, considering most 160 milers were already stretching).

 

[davewill]

Wow, what a turn off. Are they trying to piss me off or what? So now their $50,000 model, which is what I have been seriously considering, is having quite a few of the features converted to "options", adding many thousands of dollars on to the price? :x ...

You know what they say, "If you have to ask the price..."

Seriously, no one should be planning to buy a Tesla if they are pinching pennies...it's just not that kind of car.

 

[keydiver]

I never said I was pinching pennies. :x I'd put my income up against yours any day. What I don't like is how they have waited until now to release the specifics of what features are included for the price. I feel that I have been deliberately mislead, or they have changed strategies at the 50 yard line, just to appease the shareholders.
So, you are admitting this is just a rich boy's toy? I think Tesla is sadly mistaken if that is their plan. I can't imagine too many people with that much expendable income settling for an electric car with limited range, very limited dealership support, and negligible charging infrastructure. maybe in Silicon Valley, but it won't play very well in Florida.

 

[davewill]

I never said I was pinching pennies. :x I'd put my income up against yours any day. What I don't like is how they have waited until now to release the specifics of what features are included for the price. I feel that I have been deliberately mislead, or they have changed strategies at the 50 yard line, just to appease the shareholders.
So, you are admitting this is just a rich boy's toy? I think Tesla is sadly mistaken if that is their plan. I can't imagine too many people with that much expendable income settling for an electric car with limited range, very limited dealership support, and negligible charging infrastructure. maybe in Silicon Valley, but it won't play very well in Florida.

I'll just accept that yours is bigger than mine. OF COURSE the Tesla is just a rich boy's toy. I have no more intention of buying a Tesla than I would a Mazerati. I always assumed that "$50,000" was just a come-on and that virtually no one was actually going to get a car at that price. It will certainly never be a mainstream vehicle.

 

[evnow]

Yet a start up car company could, and did?

Tesla just did a conversion, using an external drivetrain supplier, external battery suppplier and an external glider supplier. Nissan did everything themselfs - the motor, the drive train, the battery. They also completely automated the assembly that can also do ICE cars.

Are you seriously comparing a 2,000 cars over 5 year at $100,000 effort to a 50K cars a year @ $35K effort ?

 

[Herm]

I've always thought 200 miles (not 300) was the sweet spot. I know it is for myself. So with their 60 kWh, middle of the road version, coming in at an estimated 230, it probably will be decently close to ideal.

Its a refundable deposit, but think of what road salt would do the aluminum chassis... Dont kidd yourself and go get your credit card

 

[Herm]

[
Tesla just did a conversion, using an external drivetrain supplier, external battery suppplier and an external glider supplier.

Tesla uses the adjust-a-length chassis from Lotus, they designed their own:
1. motor
2. inverter
3. sofware
4. BMS for 7000 cells and several chargers
5. body panels
6. interior
and the amazing part is that they could make 7000 laptop cells work at all and not explode in a fireball on the hwy.

 

[Jay]

Personally, I have been waiting for Infiniti and their offering, but I would/will buy this instead in a second. $59,900 is reasonable for what you get (230 miles), especially when you have to believe that the Infiniti is going to be around $50k+. Heck, I'll likely spring for the 300 miler, I don't need it...but it is cool, lol.

Infiniti EV was teased at $47K (before credits) with a focus group - and some 130 mile range.

The 230 miler S will be $69K (before credits). The 160 miler is $57K.

Currently the 160 miler isn't looking competitive compared to the Infiniti EV. I don't think too many will jump from 160 to 230 ($10k is a big jump, considering most 160 milers were already stretching).

Oh, I'm in the loop on the Infiniti, (= I just rounded my thinking up to 50K/low 50s on the Infiniti when the '12 LEAF got the bump. IT just feels like the right number...but who knows? All I know now is the price for the Model S, and the production date (although my skepticism on a delivery date runs wild).

i know what you are saying about the base model, but the Infiniti is all still 'what ifs' and future tense atm...and I think the argument can be made that the Infiniti at 130 miles over the LEAF's 100 miles for maybe for an extra $12,000 is as much up a struggle in logic if you are 'running the numbers', as getting an extra 30 miles in the Tesla over the Infiniti for another $7,000 to $10,000...plus the Tesla has the 'electric car' cache.
---
For me, if I could, I would really like to get out of the 'I am probably ok for the day' ranges of 100-130 miles. I'm not knocking the new Infiniti, that is still my choice until Tesla actually proves they can put a non-sig S cars on the road, but I still think 130 is light...it should have been/should still be 150ish (imo)

The thing is, that if (and this is a huge if) Tesla can actually put the S on the road in the fall of 2012, that is at least a full year and a half before the Infiniti. (looks like production on the Infinti is actually slated for Q1 2014 now instead of in late 2013).

I love my LEAVES, and like the upcoming Infiniti as an eventual trade-up story....but I would really love to have a EV that goes 230 (or more likely 300 miles) in my driveway a lot more.