PG&E will be doing some check-ups/service; might charge $?

[phaduman]

Just as soon as I bought the Leaf last week, I called PG&E to request changing my plan to E91. They said no problem, will take about 1 billing cycle - so far no issues.
They filled out a form for PG&E to do a service check around their transformers, lines etc etc to make sure the EV charging will be OK for their systems. The person on phone said someone will contact me in 2/3 days.

What got me worried is that there is a possibility I might get billed for changes they might have to do - he said unlikely, but can happen. Man - what kind of bill are we talking about? a few hundred dollars might be OK but what if they have to dig up a whole road and bring up couple of new electic poles and what not...

any experiences and advice?

thanks
PN, San Jose, CA

 

[kubel]

It should be as simple as installing a new or second meter (in my case, a second meter). I wouldn't worry.

 

[FairwoodRed]

In my line of work, we routinely have to quote that there may be charges to the customer, but maybe 1 out of 1000 actually get charged. I don’t know your utility, but it sounds like they would only charge you if they had to upgrade a transformer or some feeder lines (costly stuff – sometimes $100 per foot). Some utilities will make you pay for that with new service, but absorb the cost on existing services (particularly if your service drop is not changing).

I have some sound advice for this and many other service situations. Call them back and say “No charges are authorized until a written estimate is given to me”. That makes it clear that they have to check with you before they do anything that you might have to pay for.

But it does sound like you don't have much to worry about.

 

[gfederas]

E9-A (whole house) or E9-B (second meter)? No such thing as E91 (unless your talking ethanol).

If it's a second meter, I was quoted over $2,000 by PGE just to set the meter. This charge did not include buying the meter (separate monthly charge like leasing your cable modem), nor the cost of a second meter box, wiring, etc. that would be paid to a licensed electrician all before PGE came out with their meter. Also, my city said a second meter implies a rental unit in my single family neighborhood, which is a no-no. Needless to say, the cost savings never justified the additional cost in my lifetime.

I chose E9A so my whole house gets lower electricity rates. Do the math, and make for damn sure you don't drop the E7 time of use like I did.

 

[dandrewk]

It doesn't matter what rate schedule you have or apply for (e-7, e-9), if you get an L2 charger, the installer will need to get a building permit and contact PG&E. PG&E will then assign a job for someone to assess your home's lines and load requirements in light of the extra demands from an EV.

I am on E-7, and got a phone call from a PG&E guy asking about my car in L2 installation. He said he had to do a survey of the site, but it was extremely unlikely they would have to upgrade the power lines. I never heard back from them.

 

[phaduman]

That makes a lot of sense. My installer did mention that they will be doing that arrangement with city (I think he said city, and not PG&E). I wasn't sure installer will be engaging PG&E as well.

I will be talking to PG&E tomorrow and will update all on what happens. thanks a lot!

 

[planet4ever]

It doesn't matter what rate schedule you have or apply for (e-7, e-9), if you get an L2 charger, the installer will need to get a building permit and contact PG&E.

Some half-truths here:

• You can't apply for E-7, which is being phased out. If you already have it, hang onto it and don't change to E-9.
• You are not getting an "L2 charger". The charger is built into the car. You are getting a charging station, officially known as an EVSE.
• Not all EVSEs require a building permit. Some can be plugged into an existing outlet in the wall. If you don't have an appropriate outlet you can get one installed (with building permit) without even saying what its purpose is.
• I have never heard that the installer has to contact PG&E, other than the special case of installing a second meter. (That would be needed for E9-B , but not E9-A.)
• If you are changing to a time-of-use schedule from a standard schedule , you may have to get a new meter for that, but that is between you and PG&E, and has nothing to do with any installer.

Ray

 

[phaduman]

Great data. Some things are already happening or happened - so please guide me per this data.

* I am on E1 currently, and requested E9-A with PG&E (as I didn't want to pay for separate meter install cost), which triggered all this. I think with E9-A, it is always going to be time-of-day use. right? My consumption currently is 400-500kwh in summer, and 800kwh in winter months. Do I have a choice time-of-day or flat-rate? Thought with E-9, it is always TOU.

* A Blink EVSE Level-2 has already been installed by installer, and he has billed for work to be done on building-permit processing. So that is going to happen regardless.

 

[DeaneG]

E9A is always time-of-use, and is tiered on top of that. You can find PG&E's TOU rates at:

http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/electric.shtml#RESELEC_TOU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow, you use a lot of electricity in the winter. Electric heat, or many incandescent lamps (same thing I guess)?

You can also keep E1 if you want, but E9A may be cheaper depending on your consumption pattern.

 

[srl99]

Tell them you want SMUD rate plan R-1. Why should you pay 3X for a PG&E rate plan when the legislators who are allowing them to overcharge you are living in SMUD-land? (10c kWH up to 700 kWH, then 18c/kWH).

 

[JeremyW]

Tell them you want SMUD rate plan R-1

Good one! :lol:

We don't have TOU yet for residential though. :roll:

EDIT: You can get TOU (~8c per kWh off peak last time I checked)for the car if you install a second meter. Haven't seen anything related to whole house TOU.

Jeremy

 

[dandrewk]

Some half-truths here:

• You can't apply for E-7, which is being phased out. If you already have it, hang onto it and don't change to E-9.

• 
  <sigh> ok then, let's add E-6 to the list. It's irrelevant to EV's unless the owner is simultaneously installing solar panels. I only mentioned to point out the PG&E load survey isn't locked to a certain rate schdule.
  

  [*]You are not getting an "L2 charger". The charger is built into the car. You are getting a charging station, officially known as an EVSE.

  Really. I wasn't aware that my Blink was an "electric vehicle supplied equipment". Regardless, the meaning of my statement should have been obvious.
  

  [*]Not all EVSEs require a building permit. Some can be plugged into an existing outlet in the wall. If you don't have an appropriate outlet you can get one installed (with building permit) without even saying what its purpose is.
  [*]I have never heard that the installer has to contact PG&E, other than the special case of installing a second meter. (That would be needed for E9-B , but not E9-A.)

  
  I should have been more clear. PG&E is alerted via the building department, otherwise there would be know other way for PG&E to know that a potential load increase is occurring. As far as not listing the purpose of the 240v plug installation, PG&E must have made a very lucky guess that I had recently purchased an EV.
  
  

  [*]If you are changing to a time-of-use schedule from a standard schedule , you may have to get a new meter for that, but that is between you and PG&E, and has nothing to do with any installer.

EL-6 and 7 are both TOU. Unless the user cannot charge during off-peak hours, I can't think of no reason why someone would want to switch from TOU to standard.

 

[DougDarby]

I guess there really are a few advantages to living in Texas.
$.074 kWh fixed rate and the ability to choose another provider if you find one that's cheaper.

Upgraded my Nissan provided charger to 240V, plugged it into an existing outlet. About $300!

 

[Phoenix]

And don't forget that E9 rate is being phased out by 2014 or thereabouts. (So think carefully before getting a second meter.) PG&E is offering the new EV rate which is non-tiered. See the PG&E threads on this forum. PUC approved PG&E's rate request in August 2012.

 

[dandrewk]

Getting back to the OP's concern, installing an L2 STATION ( ) might precipitate a PGE site survey. The resulting letter and phone call is cause for concern. Believe me, I know . The good news is that it rarely goes any farther than that.

 

[planet4ever]

You are not getting an "L2 charger". The charger is built into the car. You are getting a charging station, officially known as an EVSE.

Really. I wasn't aware that my Blink was an "electric vehicle supplied equipment". Regardless, the meaning of my statement should have been obvious.

Yep, that's what your Blink is, as illogical as it sounds when you spell it out. Sorry I get on my high horse about this sometimes, but there really is a huge difference between an EVSE and a charger. A charger takes alternating current and converts it (usually with significant loss, that ends up as heat) to direct current at whatever voltage is needed to charge the battery. An EVSE doesn't convert anything. It just take alternating current at some voltage from the wall and passes it on to the car, still as alternating current at the same voltage. Your Blink is nothing but a big switch and timer and logger, with some safety tests built in. The charger in the car has to provide a variable DC voltage to the battery as demanded by the battery controller. It is about 90% efficient, so generates lots of heat, and is water cooled using a radiator and a pump which runs the whole time the car is charging.

Ray

 

[dandrewk]

The nomenclature for relative EV noobies like me is confusing enough, especially when the acronyms are a bit of a misnomer. I originally took the term EVSE to apply -only- to the L1 charge cord that is -supplied- with the vehicle. Really it includes anything that supplies the power used by the car's charger, whether it's something you plug in the wall or get from a public charge station. I'm also trying to be vigilant when referring to a "charger" and a "charge station". Two different things.

Anyway, it's a bit off topic. I do remember when PG&E first called me, thinking "oh great, a hidden cost that nobody told me about". I understand why an electric company would want to assure a home's electric service can handle increases in load, but I have yet to hear of anyone having to upgrade that service because they bought a Leaf.

 

[LEAFer]

We don't have TOU yet for residential though. :roll:

OT, but ... that does NOT sound right ...

 

[phaduman]

I have an update for all. Thank you for the great forum we have here and amazing people - Leaf needs more of you folks to help market the "zero-emission" drive Leaf has spearheaded. Ok, now back to topic:

PG&E project manager called who was assigned my "project". those are big words and I was swallowing up waiting to hear what he would say next. He basically wanted to evaluate if my house panel had enough current draw available for the EVSE. I think the transformer side was not discussed at all, as I believe that was not his concern. As I have a 200Amp meter and panel, I have more than sufficient room for the Leaf charging. He did enquire at what time I would be charging and recommended that I do that between mid-night and 7AM - that was my plan anyways. He said all is good, and enjoy the EV.

That is all - that file is closed. And I am relieved.

I think the transformers would become a problem (might need upgrade etc.) once there are many EVs that show up near-by. That upgrade cost (or part of it) might be shared with new (and/or existing) EV owners. This is just my speculation.

cheers
PN, SJ

 

[davewill]

The nomenclature for relative EV noobies like me is confusing enough, especially when the acronyms are a bit of a misnomer. I originally took the term EVSE to apply -only- to the L1 charge cord that is -supplied- with the vehicle. ...

That's because you got the acronym wrong. It's Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, as in equipment to supply electricity to the car.