Range Chart

[lincomatic]

The fuel bars are NOT directly linked to the store battery energy (Gid), but the battery warnings are. That's why the warnings always supersede whatever battery bar might be displayed, to determine range. Your observations of variations are indeed consistent, exempt for (again) battery warnings.

Yikes, so even the fuel bars are derived from some sort of GOM factors? That's ridiculuous!
Up until recently, my wife has been using a coarse 8 miles / fuel bar rule of thumb, but it suddenly doesn't
work well anymore. Have you seen a lot of variations in the GID/fuel bar transitions? If so, maybe we should
just take them out of the chart.

My wife likes to use fuel bars to estimate range. For her, it's easier than working with raw GID values (or my preference, KWh remaining). Perhaps we should come up with our own fuel bar formula that directly relates to GIDs? This would give them more consistency.

 

[JPWhite]

The fuel bars are NOT directly linked to the store battery energy (Gid), but the battery warnings are. That's why the warnings always supersede whatever battery bar might be displayed, to determine range. Your observations of variations are indeed consistent, exempt for (again) battery warnings.

My wife likes to use fuel bars to estimate range. For her, it's easier than working with raw GID values (or my preference, KWh remaining). Perhaps we should come up with our own fuel bar formula that directly relates to GIDs? This would give them more consistency.

Me too, one can do a quick mental calculation and come up with a better range than the GOM indicator can.

If I'm gonna drive the interstate, 5 miles per bar, if I'm taking it easy, 7 miles per bar. Gets me where I'm going

 

[QueenBee]

My wife likes to use fuel bars to estimate range. For her, it's easier than working with raw GID values (or my preference, KWh remaining). Perhaps we should come up with our own fuel bar formula that directly relates to GIDs? This would give them more consistency.

Me too, one can do a quick mental calculation and come up with a better range than the GOM indicator can.

If I'm gonna drive the interstate, 5 miles per bar, if I'm taking it easy, 7 miles per bar. Gets me where I'm going [/quote]

Although I've never had a SOC meter but for me I think I want miles remaining that is set based on an adjustable static miles per KWH. Over a longer time frame my miles per KW is very stable at 3.5 in the summer and closer to 3 in the winter. Then a bonus feature would be remaining miles using the miles per KWH over the current "tank". SOC %, fuel bars, GIDs, KWH remaining, etc. are all just ways to get to the real number we want, miles remaining

 

[TonyWilliams]

Update: - 9 October 2012, Added chart version "7G". Each PDF file has English (first page) and Metric (second page) measure.
Now for iPhone, iPad, and iPod, free from the Apple App Store
Now for Android !!!

If your LEAF is missing any of the capacity bar segments of the 12 total capacity bar segments, use the appropriate chart:

Use this 100% chart for a factory new battery. Don't assume that because you bought the car new that it will be at 100% !!!

Use this 93% chart for a one year old or more battery that still has all 12 capacity bar segments.

Use this 82% chart for a battery that has 11 of 12 capacity bar segments.

Use this 75% chart for a battery that has 10 of 12 capacity bar segments.

Use this 69% chart for a battery that has 9 of 12 capacity bar segments.

Use this 63% chart for a battery that has 8 of 12 capacity bar segments.

 

[FalconFour]

Can't download the 93% chart... FileFactory is far too loaded with ads and inter-locking download mechanisms that keep going haywire over my slow cell connection (sitting in my LEAF at a dealership, charging, calculating how long I need to sit here). Spent 5 minutes trying to get the website to spit out the file... every time it acts like it's going to give me the file, it pops up an ad for sendlargefiles.com and in the background it goes back to the Captcha page

Dropbox is great for stuff like that - free account, drop it into your "public" folder, right-click, "copy public link" - and no more garbage "do you want a SLOW download?" pages

Played around with the Android app, but slightly unnerved that it only offers a 100% or 85% battery option - I've got that year-old LEAF with 12 bars, so I'm assuming 93%. Hoping to get that chart so I can compare figures

edit: Nope, won't download at all! Just sends me in an infinite loop of BS. Jumped through the scroll-to-the-bottom, enter-the-captcha hoop, then the "Oh please please please sign up for SendLargeFiles!" hoop, then the 30-second wait... hey, "download now!"... Here, have a pop-up for SendLargeFiles. Oh, and did you want to download that file? Enter the Captcha... >.< Guess I'll just trust the app! :lol:

 

[TonyWilliams]

Send an email to:

[email protected]

And it'll return all the files.

 

[FalconFour]

Awesome! Here are the links on my Dropbox - no downloading hassle

Use this 100% chart for a factory new battery.
Use this 93% chart for a one year old or more battery that still has all 12 capacity bar segments.
Use this 82% chart for a battery that has 11 of 12 capacity bar segments.
Use this 75% chart for a battery that has 10 of 12 capacity bar segments.
Use this 69% chart for a battery that has 9 of 12 capacity bar segments.
Use this 63% chart for a battery that has 8 of 12 capacity bar segments.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Update on 2013 SOC readout for a new battery. For a degraded battery, I can only assume that that there will be higher % for the battery warnings, since the 2013 LEAF readout is "usable" SOC based. At 50% degradation, a full charge would show 100%, therefore the fixed Gid value warnings would happen at roughly 30% and 10% "usable" SOC:

2013 LEAF SOC readout, New battery, no degradation:

17% - Low Battery Warning = Gid raw value 49 (17.4%) = Gid2 15.3%

8% - Very Low Battery = Gid raw value 24 (8.6%) = Gid2 6.2%

0% - Turtle = Gid raw value 7 (2.5%) = Gid2 0%

*************

2013 LEAF SOC readout, old battery, 50% degradation:

34% - Low Battery Warning = Gid raw value 49 (17.4%) = Gid2 15.3%

16% - Very Low Battery = Gid raw value 24 (8.6%) = Gid2 6.2%

0% - Turtle = Gid raw value 7 (2.5%) = Gid2 0%

*************

Gid2 formulas: %factor ((Gid raw value - Gid Turtle raw value) / (Max Gid raw value - Gid Turtle))

100 ((281 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 100% [fully charged new battery]

100 ((144 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 50% [half depleted new battery, or 50% degraded but fully charged]

100 ((49 - 7) / (281 - 7)) = 15.3% [Low Battery Warning]

100 ((24 - 7) / (281 - 7)) = 6.2% [Very Low Battery]

100 ((7 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 0% [Turtle]

 

[TonyWilliams]

I need a formula for the Range Chart to convert the 1.5kWh of energy consumed to climb 1000 feet to be shown as a change to economy. In the LEAF, we use 65mph = 4.0 miles per kWh economy on level ground.

So, perhaps the rule of thumb should be 1000 feet elevation gain is 7% decrease in economy. Therefore, 65mph at 4miles/kWh on level ground will be 3.7miles/kWh over the 1000 feet climb. Sound good?

1.5kWh extra consumed to climb 1000 feet / 21kWh battery = 7% reduction in economy over 84 miles - 7% = 78.12 miles at 65mph

Here's the rub... Let say I climb that 1000 feet in only 8 miles? My economy at 65mph will be WAY below 3.7. So, we need a formula that recognizes both the extra 1.5kWh burned, and over how many miles.

So, on level road at 65mph at 4.0, the car will consume 2kWh, plus 1.5kWh to climb the 1000 feet, which means 8miles / 3.5kWh = 2.28 miles/kWh.

So, we need a formula for miles traveled and elevation change = economy * battery capacity = range.

 

[ztanos]

Is there going to be a 2013 range chart? Or did I miss it?

 

[TomT]

Based on Tony's S.D. range test, it doesn't appear that there is that much difference between a 2013 and a 2011/2012... ''

Is there going to be a 2013 range chart? Or did I miss it?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Is there going to be a 2013 range chart? Or did I miss it?

It's exactly the same chart, 2011-2013.

2013 LEAF-S range test



LEAF governemnt range worldwide:

124 miles = 200km Japan "EPA" rating for 2011-2012
142 miles = 228km Japan "EPA" for 2013

109 miles = 175km UK / Euro 2011-2012

73 miles = USA 2011-2012
75 miles = USA tentatively until EPA approves it


THESE ARE ALL THE SAME CAR WITH THE SAME EXACT REAL LIFE RANGE, 2011-2013 LEAF.

 

[ztanos]

Is there going to be a 2013 range chart? Or did I miss it?

It's exactly the same chart, 2011-2013.

2013 LEAF-S range test



LEAF governemnt range worldwide:

124 miles = 200km Japan "EPA" rating for 2011-2012
142 miles = 228km Japan "EPA" for 2013

109 miles = 175km UK / Euro 2011-2012

73 miles = USA 2011-2012
75 miles = USA tentatively until EPA approves it


THESE ARE ALL THE SAME CAR WITH THE SAME EXACT REAL LIFE RANGE, 2011-2013 LEAF.

My mistake then, I thought I read this morning the new EPA rating being 84.

Edit: Article said that the estimated EPA rating was 84, never mind, ignore me.

 

[TonyWilliams]

LEAF governemnt range worldwide:

124 miles = 200km Japan "EPA" rating for 2011-2012
142 miles = 228km Japan "EPA" for 2013

109 miles = 175km UK / Euro 2011-2012

73 miles = USA 2011-2012
75 miles = USA tentatively until EPA approves it


THESE ARE ALL THE SAME CAR WITH THE SAME EXACT REAL LIFE RANGE, 2011-2013 LEAF.

My mistake then, I thought I read this morning the new EPA rating being 84.

Edit: Article said that the estimated EPA rating was 84, never mind, ignore me.

Yes, they did further confuse things with an 84 mile EPA 100% charge, and 67 EPA 80% charge, and then average the two for 75 EPA. Only one other car uses this method; 2012 Rav4 EV (92 and 113 miles averaged to 103 EPA rating).

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm repeating this, because I don't want it to get lost in the noise:

I need a formula for the Range Chart to convert the 1.5kWh of energy consumed to climb 1000 feet to be shown as a change to economy. In the LEAF, we use 65mph = 4.0 miles per kWh economy on level ground.

So, perhaps the rule of thumb should be 1000 feet elevation gain is 7% decrease in economy. Therefore, 65mph at 4miles/kWh on level ground will be 3.7miles/kWh over the 1000 feet climb. Sound good?

1.5kWh extra consumed to climb 1000 feet / 21kWh battery = 7% reduction in economy over 84 miles - 7% = 78.12 miles at 65mph

Here's the rub... Let say I climb that 1000 feet in only 8 miles? My economy at 65mph will be WAY below 3.7. So, we need a formula that recognizes both the extra 1.5kWh burned, and over how many miles.

So, on level road at 65mph at 4.0, the car will consume 2kWh, plus 1.5kWh to climb the 1000 feet, which means 8miles / 3.5kWh = 2.28 miles/kWh.

So, we need a formula for miles traveled and elevation change = economy * battery capacity = range.

 

[TomT]

I've given up trying to seriously take elevation changes in to account. Virtually nowhere I drive is ever flat or a constant elevation change so it is just a measure in frustration to try and account for it all Thus I simply mentally average it, which is close enough for my purposes and always gets me within a few miles of ultimate accuracy...

 

[Nubo]

I'm repeating this, because I don't want it to get lost in the noise:

I need a formula for the Range Chart to convert the 1.5kWh of energy consumed to climb 1000 feet to be shown as a change to economy. In the LEAF, we use 65mph = 4.0 miles per kWh economy on level ground.

So, perhaps the rule of thumb should be 1000 feet elevation gain is 7% decrease in economy. Therefore, 65mph at 4miles/kWh on level ground will be 3.7miles/kWh over the 1000 feet climb. Sound good?

1.5kWh extra consumed to climb 1000 feet / 21kWh battery = 7% reduction in economy over 84 miles - 7% = 78.12 miles at 65mph

Here's the rub... Let say I climb that 1000 feet in only 8 miles? My economy at 65mph will be WAY below 3.7. So, we need a formula that recognizes both the extra 1.5kWh burned, and over how many miles.

So, on level road at 65mph at 4.0, the car will consume 2kWh, plus 1.5kWh to climb the 1000 feet, which means 8miles / 3.5kWh = 2.28 miles/kWh.

So, we need a formula for miles traveled and elevation change = economy * battery capacity = range.

Let E1 = base economy (M/kWH)
Let E2 = revised economy (M/kWH)
Let UP = altitude gain (feet)
Let M = miles travelled

E2 = 1 / ( (1/E1) + ((1.5*UP/1000)/M) )

Not sure if that's what you're looking for? I think the existing range chart does well by just saying subtract a bar for every 1000 ft gain, and the smaller amount for descending.

 

[waidy]

Let E1 = base economy (M/kWH)
Let E2 = revised economy (M/kWH)
Let UP = altitude gain (feet)
Let M = miles travelled

E2 = 1 / ( (1/E1) + ((1.5*UP/1000)/M) )

Not sure if that's what you're looking for? I think the existing range chart does well by just saying subtract a bar for every 1000 ft gain, and the smaller amount for descending.

Would you mind telling me how did you come up with 1.5? Curious mind wants to know.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Let E1 = base economy (M/kWH)
Let E2 = revised economy (M/kWH)
Let UP = altitude gain (feet)
Let M = miles travelled

E2 = 1 / ( (1/E1) + ((1.5*UP/1000)/M) )

Not sure if that's what you're looking for? I think the existing range chart does well by just saying subtract a bar for every 1000 ft gain, and the smaller amount for descending.

Would you mind telling me how did you come up with 1.5? Curious mind wants to know.

Oh, that's way back in the archives somewhere. Mostly empirical data. I know somebody did some "real" math on how much power it took to raise 3350 pounds of car plus cargo up 1000 feet.

This formula is a good start. I'll have to try it on some variables and make sure that I get a believable product!!! Thanks,

Tony

 

[RegGuheert]

I know somebody did some "real" math on how much power it took to raise 3350 pounds of car plus cargo up 1000 feet.

Here is a PDF showing calculation of power required to climb an incline at a given speed.