San Francisco Area?

[palmermd]

Try to ask what the "B" means, what it does, and how one enters that mode.

Or, is it just the same mode as "D", ... and one just puts one's foot on the brake pedal to increase Regen-braking.
Thanks Again

Tried to get details about D vs B and they really did not know. At first he explained in generic terms and when I pressed that I knew what I was talking about and he realized that I did, he said that he nor anybody on site really had any details about how it worked for sure. He said in general terms that in B mode there will be a constant load of regeneration when not on the accelerator pedal. I asked if there was any regen when off the accelerator pedal when in D mode and he did not know for sure. So at this point there really is no new information. B puts out more regen than D and has regen when not touching any pedals, but otherwise we don't know for sure.

I asked if we could open a door and look in the trunk or fold a seat and he said that they were not allowed to unlock the car. The two knowledgeable gentlemen who where there said that neither of them have driven the car yet. There is a truck driver who could care less about the car who unloads it from the trailer and loads it back in every day.

 

[Rik]

Orinda, in the East Bay

 

[BrendanDolan]

San Mateo here.

IIRC the Altima Hybrid has contact engine braking and more regen in B, and only regens on the brakes when in D. I could be wrong though, as it's been a few years since I've been through Nissan training.

 

[jason98]

The search for Leaf dealerships within 50 miles gives me 16 results.
Would appreciate if someone who already found a decent dealer in this area shared the info.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The search for Leaf dealerships within 50 miles gives me 16 results.
Would appreciate if someone who already found a decent dealer in this area shared the info.

What city do you reside, approximately.

 

[jason98]

South San Jose.

 

[green01]

http://evnut.com/vaca_dc_fast_charger.html

Darell "The EV Nut", in the link above, reports on the first public Leaf (TEPCO) fast charging station in California.

It's located in Vacaville. This makes Sacramento a viable destination for many Leaf owners in the Bay Area.

 

[javan]

I like that charging station. Thanks for the post. Jim

 

[garygid]

A really great series of pictures, THANKS.

 

[evnow]

Merging with SF thread. Starting new consolidated "no more than MSRP Dealers" thread.

 

[DeaneG]

It would be interesting to me to know how the rest of you PG&E customers plan to charge your Leaf - rate E9A, E9B, or ?? There are some real pluses and minuses to each, and some details to sort through on E9B. Maybe I should start a location thread titled "PG&E Service Area", I'm not sure if "San Francisco Area" is the right place or inclusive enough.

 

[javan]

I'm a PG&E customer about 300 miles north of San Francisco, and am totally unclear about the rate structure and what will work best for us. And I'm still trying to figure out my new solar power affected PG&E bill. I'll happily read whatever people who have more knowledge post here. Jim

 

[DeaneG]

I'm a PG&E customer about 300 miles north of San Francisco, and am totally unclear about the rate structure and what will work best for us.

You could start here: http://www.pge.com/about/environment/pge/electricvehicles/fuelrates/index.shtml for non-solar charging info. I'm not sure what rate you'd use for both EV charging and solar.

 

[planet4ever]

Since I have solar panels it appears that E9-A will work fairly well for me. In my case, at least, my current E6 is a little better than E9 for the solar, but E9 with charging after midnight will be better than E6 from the EV aspect. It should come close to balancing out.

E9-B doesn't make sense for me for several reasons. I expect my average EV mileage to be fairly low, and in fact plan to charge the Leaf from 120v. My home only has 100A service right now, and either a 240v EVSE or a second meter would force an upgrade of underground service. In fact [sotto voce] I'm praying that I can get by with no electrical inspection at all, because I'm already overloaded.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Since I have solar panels it appears that E9-A will work fairly well for me. In my case, at least, my current E6 is a little better than E9 for the solar, but E9 with charging after midnight will be better than E6 from the EV aspect. It should come close to balancing out.

E9-B doesn't make sense for me for several reasons. I expect my average EV mileage to be fairly low, and in fact plan to charge the Leaf from 120v. My home only has 100A service right now, and either a 240v EVSE or a second meter would force an upgrade of underground service. In fact [sotto voce] I'm praying that I can get by with no electrical inspection at all, because I'm already overloaded.

PGE may require to see the permit for the install of the second meter. If your usage in is low the new meter may not be worth the cost.

 

[DeaneG]

You could start here: http://www.pge.com/about/environment/pge/electricvehicles/fuelrates/index.shtml for non-solar charging info. I'm not sure what rate you'd use for both EV charging and solar.

I forgot to say, the E9A rate shown on that initial page is misleading. With E9A, your EV charging energy consumption is aggregated with your household use, since they are on the same meter. You will wind up charging your EV starting from the monthly usage tier you have already accumulated on the meter due to your household energy consumption. In my case, charging mostly through tier 3 in winter and 4 in summer, I pay about 2x-3x the off-peak E9A baseline rates shown. Daytime AC use also boosts my E9A "base bill" by about $500 over E1 rates.

E9B has higher off-peak rates than E1A, but starts over at tier one baseline on a mandatory second meter. Your household can stay on its E1 rate and your energy use there is irrelevant to the E9B rates your EV is charged at.

I am using 0.4 AC kWh/mile to estimate my EV charging power consumption and the resulting change to my utility bill. Some will have a different point of view on this, but I look at the Mini-E and Tesla AC power efficiency and real driving range (compared to LA4) numbers available on the web.

Here are E9 rates and rules:

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/about/rates/rateinfo/rateoptions/res/e-9.pdf

I'm going to try to find out if E9C is still available, if PG&E has any plans for revised rates using smartmetering, and if the "dual meter adapter" ever came to fruition, which would reduce installation cost compared to service panel replacement to add that E9B second meter.

 

[javan]

Speaking of PG&E, here is a link to an article about smartmeters (which I just had installed). http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/05/31/MNQD1DKFA5.DTL&tsp=1

 

[planet4ever]

I am using 0.4 AC kWh/mile to estimate my EV charging power consumption and the resulting change to my utility bill. Some will have a different point of view on this, but I look at the Mini-E and Tesla AC power efficiency and real driving range (compared to LA4) numbers available on the web.

That's a shockingly high rate (pun intended). It would indicate a true Leaf range of no more than 60 miles, even if the battery really is bigger than 24kWh and has a usable range of 24kWh as some have suggested. Would you care to share your calculations with us?

 

[DeaneG]

The most-rosy-eyed calculation would be 24kWh battery capacity /100 miles LA4 range = 0.24 kWh per mile. But this neglects two important factors: AC-to-battery charging efficiency and my actual driving style's range compared to LA4 driving style's range.

The first, AC-to-battery charging losses, is the amount of energy lost as heat through the charger and battery during charging. It's why your notebook PC gets hot during charging, even though it is turned off. This loss depends on the rate of charge, but it likely to be in the range of 0.8 to 0.85 for 220v charging, based on info I found online for the tesla roadster (0.8) and the mini-e (0.8-0.85). Let's call it 0.85 for this example.

The other factor is my expected driving style's range compared to the LA4 driving style. This depends completely on your use of the car. I expect to drive 70-75mph most of the time (mostly freeway commute, HOV lane). I have read that higher freeway speeds coupled with an enthusiastic right foot can reduce range to 70% or less of the LA4 cycle. So in my specific case I'll have a factor of 0.7 here. If you are an LA4-driver, you'd use 1.0 instead.

Multiplying things together, my own expectation is:

(24 kWh DC / 100 miles LA4) * (1/ 0.85 AC/DC efficiency) * (1/ 0.7 My range/LA4 range) = 0.40 AC kWh per My Mile

which is a different set of units from DC kWh per LA4 mile.

EDIT: I imagine that a year from now we'll have a pretty good "energy consumption" thread with actual data from those who run a dedicated AC meter for charging.

 

[DeaneG]

Here is a pretty good summary of PG&E rate schedules and how they relate to solar power generation and EV charging:

http://gosolarnow.com/NetMetering.html