Simple Scheduled Maintenance Spreadsheet

[RockyNv]

Can you analyze information you read?

* Repeated short trips of less than 5 miles in normal temperatures or
less than 10 miles in freezing temperatures
* Stop-and-go traffic in hot weather or low speed driving for long dis-
tances
* Driving in dusty conditions or on rough, muddy, or salt-spread roads
Using a car-top carrier

Repeated short trips of less than 5 miles have what effect on Nissan Leaf?
Repeated short trips of less than 5 miles have what effect on brakes?

Stop go traffic in hot weather has what to do with brakes?

Clearly can't notice that those are 100% ICE vehicle related problems.


REGEN is not even partly hydraulic and doesn't apply to anything besides software.
ABS/ESP brains calculate how much less will brake booster actuate. That's all.

If the system is not getting warm condensate acid build up at the wheel cylinder and in the valve body will be worse. That is why test strips at the reservoir are not really that accurate.

Think hydroscopic fluid issues and condensate. Nissan had to do a full FMA on the car when they determined that the brakes as implemented on the Leaf needed a more strict severe service regimen.

 

[arnis]

Omg. I'm so sad.

Condensation does not happen inside halogen/CCFL lightbulbs, doesn't happen between double layer windows.
You know why?

And wtf is condensate acid?

Brake recall was due to relay.

 

[RockyNv]

Omg. I'm so sad.

Condensation does not happen inside halogen/CCFL lightbulbs, doesn't happen between double layer windows.
You know why?

And wtf is condensate acid?

Brake recall was due to relay.

I guess I know who won't be working on any of my vehicles.

If you have not seen what acid buildup in brake systems does when you don't flush regularly enough and the water that condensates in the system then turns acidic then you are not the professional you present yourself to be. A brake system is not a hermetically sealed system in a vacuum so it does get condensates from atmosphere inside it. I have seen numerous brake systems where the metal lines rotted through from the inside out due to this. Outside they may look shiny and new while inside they are black and rotten and its a shame that due to lack of maintenance we would have to replace all the hard lines in the car from front to back to get the system pristine and truely safe.

 

[arnis]

If the system is not getting warm condensate acid build up at the wheel cylinder and in the valve body will be worse.

Explain what you just wrote my darling. Don't drift off in excuses.
You say that because LEAF hydraulic system is not suspected to heavy use (the only way liquid gonna get warm) there will be condensation buildup.
At the same time you tell that all heavy brake users must change liquid more often because it is getting warm too much.
At the same time you tell that all light brake users must change liquid more often because it is not getting warm enough.
Do you have ideal brake fluid temperature floating in your mind?

Also tell me the story about your brake system that is not hermetically sealed at

wheel cylinder and in the valve body

do you have nice regenerative braking effect in that valve body?
Are your wheel arches covered with DOT4 fluid?

BTW.... CCFL&halogen bulbs, double layer windows and stuff like that is not hermetically sealed vacuum.

 

[FalconFour]

Guys... jesus f$#@ing @#@#%. Cut it the hell out, both of you. arnis, you're a confrontational know-it-all (in every thread I see you in). RockyNV, you're a little over the deep end, but arnis does have a point.

In the Leaf, the brakes practically aren't used at all. In practice, what the system does is push-back against the brake system when you push the pedal, so it doesn't engage the real brakes but it feels like you are. Only when the system is running and working properly, then it applies the back-pressure that keeps the real brakes off the discs and uses brake pedal pressure to modulate electronic regen. That way, if you really need to brake, you just push harder and it gives up on regen and focuses, automatically and mechanically, on 4-wheel braking. That's all the "regenerative braking system" is - it's just a bit of intelligence overlaid onto a good old fashioned ABS system. Probably exactly the same motor that performs ABS functions, too.

Since most driving isn't a rapid-stopping emergency situation, you really barely ever graze the brakes, really just when you're coming from 4 MPH down to a stop. You'll notice this pattern playing out if you watch the "tree gauge" next to the speedometer - it'll stay full when you brake, until you press hard enough to use the physical brakes.

So the real maintenance you have to do on the brake system is moisture prevention, because the brakes aren't used often enough to heat up and keep the liquid moisture free. Thus, there is some merit to the advice that you have to "replace brake fluid" more often than in any other car... but take it with a grain of salt and some knowledge. That's why people use moisture test strips. And that bum stuff about "just tests what's in the reservoir"? Hardly. It gets circulated through the reservoir every time you hit the pedal - sure, maybe you won't see what's in the lines - but where else would moisture be entering the system? Surely the lines are pretty damn well sealed...

Meanwhile, all we're talking about is brakes, and that's not the only thing we need to be worried about in this thread about a maintenance schedule. How about suspension? How about the elusive reduction gear oil?

 

[arnis]

Every serviceable parts requires massive research for maintenance plan modification.
For example reduction gear oil change interval. It is not possible to recommend anything
except manufacturer recommendation.
Gear oil does degrade. But degradation formula has insane number of variables.

DOT4 does not release moisture after it has been absorbed. The only way to release moisture is to boil it.
That means it will dry only after total brake failure.

You are right. The only way considerable amount of moisture gets into the system is the thru filling neck.
Reservoir has the worst moisture level. Leaf has low-pressure brake fluid reservoir cap. Different designs over years.

Why even have this thread. There is a clear list of stuff to check. All the work has been done already.
As we know Tesla is also EV and requires no mandatory service (any more) for warranty... at all.

My ICE car also has reduction gear. And pretty much every vehicle has.. Differential.
I know at least half a thousand BMW-s (I worked with)that have driven more than 500 000km (300 000mi).
Less than 1% have problems with differential or oil that is in that differential. Less than 1% of those vehicles
have flushed their gear oil during whole lifetime (10-22 years).

How do you check differential fluid level? Answer: check for leaks. No leaks means level is the same.

How do you check dampers? Answer: you can't (only leaking or dead damper can be noticed).
Perform annual mandatory vehicle inspection and ask not to hesitate to check for damper efficiency.
How do check for brake efficiency and distribution: you can't. Visit annual mandatory vehicle inspection.
How do you check for worn suspension parts: Visit annual mandatory vehicle inspection.
These operations cost 5-10€ and need about 5 minutes of your time. Can be done voluntarily.
Don't do stuff if you don't understand WTF are you doing. More harm can be done.
Usually a lot of harm is being done by wannabe mechanics.
Biggest problems with brake fluid flush - broken bleed valves due to incorrect torque.
Biggest problem with differential fluid change - wrong fluid, catastrophic failure within few years.
Biggest problem with car wash - scratches and inconsistent quality.
Biggest problem with tire rotation - incorrect torque (or lubricated threads).

There are so many things to go wrong. Probable outcome is that at least one mistake will be done.
If you are not experienced do not perform servicing without supervision or step-by-step instructions.

 

[annabel398]

Guys... jesus f$#@ing @#@#%. Cut it the hell out, both of you. arnis, you're a confrontational know-it-all (in every thread I see you in). RockyNV, you're a little over the deep end, but arnis does have a point.
<snip>
Meanwhile, all we're talking about is brakes, and that's not the only thing we need to be worried about in this thread about a maintenance schedule. How about suspension? How about the elusive reduction gear oil?

Amen. The testosterone was getting pretty thick in this thread, and so was the BS.

Back to maintenance schedules... Thanks to whoever mentioned Schedule 1 and Schedule 2 -- as a brand new owner, I had no idea. Definitely a Sched 1 driver here.

 

[TomT]

Schedule 2 is a holdover from their ICE vehicles and not really applicable to the Leaf regardless of how it is used. Schedule 1 is just fine and brake fluid need only be changed every two or three years...

Okay, I guess I'll make the spreadsheet myself. I'll make the spreadsheet. This is the info I'll base it on (using Schedule 2):

 

[smkettner]

Simple? Just get the warranty required free battery check the first three years. Then turn the car in at end of lease.
If you buy.... open the maintenance schedule at the four year mark.

 

[TomT]

I only got the battery check the first two years when it was free and never had an issue with not doing it subsequently. It didn't even come up when I got my new warranty battery...

Simple? Just get the warranty required free battery check the first three years. Then turn the car in at end of lease.
If you buy.... open the maintenance schedule at the four year mark.

 

[RockyNv]

I do not believe it is BS to follow the manufacturers researched maintenance schedule for which they do a full FMEA (Failure Mode Event Analysis) to arrive at. Recommending that you follow the maintenance schedule from a medium duty truck or some other manufacturers high end sports cars instead is just plain insanity.

Yes if you do not follow the brake flush schedule more often than not the bleeders will more easily break when it finally gets done especially if you have not been inspecting them regularly and ensuring that the rubber weather caps on the bleeders have not been lost.

If you have repaired brake systems that have not been maintained/flushed regularly you will have seen very clearly that moisture does get by the boots at the calipers and brake cylinders and not just at the reservoir caps and will understand the limitation of just going by test strips.

The brake maintenance schedule of the Leaf is not just a repeat of the one they used on the Quest or their other ICE vehicles. Those have a very different sched with the only similarity being with the severe sched brake fluid change being annual while they recommend more inspections on the ICE vehicles and the Temperate Primarily Highway use sched being every 2 years instead of the longer sched used for the Leaf.

I stepped away from this insanity of chiding someone for wanting to make it easier for people to follow the manufactures published maintenance schedule for some time now. If you think that Nissan's Engineers are that far off then why buy their cars? Don't chastise the people who go by the book as they will by large be the people with the fewest failures while their cars are in motion.

 

[LeftieBiker]

In the Leaf, the brakes practically aren't used at all. In practice, what the system does is push-back against the brake system when you push the pedal, so it doesn't engage the real brakes but it feels like you are. Only when the system is running and working properly, then it applies the back-pressure that keeps the real brakes off the discs and uses brake pedal pressure to modulate electronic regen. That way, if you really need to brake, you just push harder and it gives up on regen and focuses, automatically and mechanically, on 4-wheel braking. That's all the "regenerative braking system" is - it's just a bit of intelligence overlaid onto a good old fashioned ABS system. Probably exactly the same motor that performs ABS functions, too.

I don't believe that this is how it works, and unless the displays are doctored to hide it, the car doesn't think so either. The hydraulic brakes don't actuate when the pedal is first pressed, but I know of no "push back" system that holds the brakes off while regen is engaged. That would be unsafe to say the least. The Regen simply comes on first. As the pedal is pressed harder it engages the hydraulic brakes in the usual way, and Regen remains active - it doesn't shut off or 'give up' as claimed above. Just look at the power display as you brake, and you will see regenerative braking working at maximum even as the friction brakes are also fully engaged. So unless you hypermile fanatically and generally drive in a fairly unsafe manner, both the hydraulic and regenerative braking systems get used whenever you drive your leaf.

Man, I'm glad I don't read this topic regularly!

 

[smkettner]

I only got the battery check the first two years when it was free and never had an issue with not doing it subsequently. It didn't even come up when I got my new warranty battery...

Simple? Just get the warranty required free battery check the first three years. Then turn the car in at end of lease.
If you buy.... open the maintenance schedule at the four year mark.

There you go. First four years just charge and drive. Do check tire pressure is near max and tread is good. Rotate only if needed which is once during the tire life maybe twice max.

At my second battery check the dealer was concerned that it was the first as apparently the computer told them. I had a receipt for the first but what ever.

How do I know if the brake fluid was actually looked at? Crystal clear going in. I say half or more wipe the cap and call the job well done.

OTOH I repaired many brake systems where the fluid came out mud brown after 10+ years and it was actually functioning. Just needs pads/shoes. That was back in the 80s on junk built in the 70s.