TonyWilliams
Well-known member
I used the Superchargers in Buena Park, California on the first day that it was open and it was already almost full.
Tesla Supercharger Network
- Thread starter palmermd
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GRA
Well-known member
It seems Tesla has been doing a lot of work in stealth mode, as SCs are now known to be under construction (some nearly finished) In Lincoln, Gothenburg, and Ogallala, NE along I-80 west of Council Bluffs, plus Junction, TX on I-10 west of San Antonio. Nothing's known for I-20, although there are reasonably strong rumors for one appearing in Midland. Lincoln to Gothenburg is 193 miles, so presumably they've either got or are looking for a site in between, as that would be problematic even for S85s in winter. As for Junction, it's 238 miles from the Columbus SC, but apparently San Antonio will be getting SCs at the Service Center when that opens.GRA said:
There's no news for anything on I-10 between Casa Grande and Junction, I-80 in Wyoming, or just where on I-76 they'll put one to reach Denver; they could add one more on I-80 well west of Ogallala to reach Denver via Cheyenne (Ogallala - Cheyenne 167 miles, so too much for S60s in winter) as an interim measure, but I imagine there's far more Teslas in the Denver area than around Cheyenne, so I expect they'd opt for I-76 first. Sterling, Fort Morgan and Brush have all been rumored. Sterling's about 88 miles from Ogallala, Brush is 122 which is a bit long uphill in winter for S60s/3s (speed limit 75), and Fort Morgan's 132. From the Denver SC it's 77 miles to Fort Morgan, 87 miles to Brush and 122 miles to Sterling. Brush seems like the best compromise if they're not going to put two SCs on I-76, or one on I-80 in either Big Springs or Julesburg, as I-76 gets considerably steeper after Fort Morgan.
It remains to be seen whether they'll be able to get the ones along I-80/76 finished before winter kicks in and the ground freezes.
GRA
Well-known member
Bandon, OR is open, completing U.S. 101 in both CA and Oregon, although the Bandon - Lincoln City leg, like the Ukiah - Eureka one in California is a bit long (146 miles) for S60s/Model 3s in poor conditions. Aberdeen and one or two further north of that in WA, maybe Forks and/or Port Angeles, will complete the whole thing. Instead of either of those, I'm secretly hoping for it to be put in one of the neighboring towns of Beaver and Sappho - you couldn't make this stuff up.
Elon begins to understand financial accounting, i.e. beginning in 2017 new Tesla buyers will pay for SC use.
https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/07/t...s-for-supercharger-use-after-around-1k-miles/
Interesting comment at the end of above:
https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/07/t...s-for-supercharger-use-after-around-1k-miles/
Interesting comment at the end of above:
arnis
Well-known member
More than 400kWh each year. Not a lot of users who heavily tip that.
Let's recall how many Leaf users ever QC-d their tiny battery
And then lets subtract all those QC sessions that happened because
24kWh was not enough. Then lets subtract all QC sessions up to
400kWh/yr. And add some QC sessions for long-distance trips.
It will be pretty rare when free-400kWh will be tipped.
There are some stubborn users who avoided charging at home just
to save money. These are going to stop doing that.
I was expecting something similar: I predicted that free limit will be monthly based
and I expected to have free days/sessions, not kWh. Like 2 unlimited days per month.
But annual limit is much easier to handle.
Let's recall how many Leaf users ever QC-d their tiny battery
And then lets subtract all those QC sessions that happened because
24kWh was not enough. Then lets subtract all QC sessions up to
400kWh/yr. And add some QC sessions for long-distance trips.
It will be pretty rare when free-400kWh will be tipped.
There are some stubborn users who avoided charging at home just
to save money. These are going to stop doing that.
I was expecting something similar: I predicted that free limit will be monthly based
and I expected to have free days/sessions, not kWh. Like 2 unlimited days per month.
But annual limit is much easier to handle.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
arnis said:More than 400kWh each year. Not a lot of users who heavily tip that.
Let's recall how many Leaf users ever QC-d their tiny battery
And then lets subtract all those QC sessions that happened because
24kWh was not enough. Then lets subtract all QC sessions up to
400kWh/yr. And add some QC sessions for long-distance trips.
It will be pretty rare when free-400kWh will be tipped.
There are some stubborn users who avoided charging at home just
to save money. These are going to stop doing that.
I was expecting something similar: I predicted that free limit will be monthly based
and I expected to have free days/sessions, not kWh. Like 2 unlimited days per month.
But annual limit is much easier to handle.
Ran across a LEAFer a few years back using the fast charger at a dealership. I being in the middle of a 150 mile commute needed the charge to the point that I wasn't sure I could make to another option. When we arrived he was already in the high 80's percentage wise and after 15 mins of waiting I got out to say hi with the aim of convincing him to move to an L2. Found out that he had bought his car there and just lived "just a few blocks away" and came to the dealership everyday to charge up.
I said hi and went back to my car having lost the heart to yell at him realizing my hate had turned to pity thinking "does he really hate his home life that much?"
arnis said:
Really? 400kWh is less than 5 full recharges per year or less than a 1000 miles per year for a Tesla!
Let's recall how many Leaf users ever QC-d their tiny battery
And what's with comparing a Leaf where it's usage is viewed much differently than a Tesla's? To many Tesla
owners, trips greater than two hundred miles are not uncommon. Remember, the Tesla is viewed as luxury car
replacement for the M/B or BMW and such will be driven comparatively. Here in the U.S., especially in CA where
a significant number of Teslas are sold, the typical driver puts on much more mileage than the average european.
Any way, Elon is playing games to spur very needed sales in the last two months of 2016, i.e. he probably knows
his 80K guidance may not occur.
arnis
Well-known member
Tesla is a normal vehicle. Do people with Corollas in US monthly drive more than 200 miles per day?
Looking at used vehicle mileages (for example vehicles that are 10 years old) I see really low
mileage vehicles for sale. Statistics say the same: average is 11-15k miles in US annually.
Individual habits don't matter. Yes, there are always exclusions. And yes people do drive more than 200 miles
per day. But first 250 miles are not counted, any day. Therefore there must be like one 500 mile trip, every season.
I drive 21k miles each year with Leaf. Almost no QC. If I had bigger battery it would be around 24-25k miles.
If I had unlimited battery it would still be around 24-25k miles, same as it was before EV-decade.
And where is the problem to pay 10-20$? We do pay for electricity anyway.
Looking at used vehicle mileages (for example vehicles that are 10 years old) I see really low
mileage vehicles for sale. Statistics say the same: average is 11-15k miles in US annually.
Individual habits don't matter. Yes, there are always exclusions. And yes people do drive more than 200 miles
per day. But first 250 miles are not counted, any day. Therefore there must be like one 500 mile trip, every season.
I drive 21k miles each year with Leaf. Almost no QC. If I had bigger battery it would be around 24-25k miles.
If I had unlimited battery it would still be around 24-25k miles, same as it was before EV-decade.
And where is the problem to pay 10-20$? We do pay for electricity anyway.
smkettner
Well-known member
With limited free SC I don't see Elon hit this one very well. The congestion at SC is from locals not long distance travel. Even with a fee and some free use it is just a short time before SC will be overloaded with locals once more.
ALL local SC should have a fee and allow free for actual long distance travel. Or a high rate for the local charging and low rate for actual long distance.
JMHO
ALL local SC should have a fee and allow free for actual long distance travel. Or a high rate for the local charging and low rate for actual long distance.
JMHO
arnis said:
What???????
You just stated this in a previous post:
arnis said:
That amount of annual energy usage for a Tesla is less than a 1,000 miles per year (400 / 85 X 200)!
That's less than 5 full re-charges per year for an average range of 200 miles per charge.
Did you confuse daily with yearly?
Please re-read this:
http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/11...ging-for-teslas-ordered-after-january-1-2017/
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
lorenfb said:
No, Arnis is not being inconsistent. You don't charge all of your yearly miles via superchargers (if you did, you won't anymore!). For most owners, you ONLY use the superchargers when traveling more than 200 miles in a single day. And even then, the first 200 miles were charged at home. So a 300 mile trip only needs 100 miles powered by superchargers.
lorenfb said:
Have you?
I know, personally, 50 or so Tesla owners.
Almost all would rather charge at home than at the local supercharger.
The only ones that use the local supercharger regularly are those that drive more than 200 or so miles a day.
I only know of one that does that.
You are so blinded by your hatred of Tesla you read and assume everything they do is the exact wrong way to do it.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
doesn't matter how many Tesla owners you know because you don't know the ones that are abusing the SC network and this is why all this is happening. Tesla Owners brought this on themselves...
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
People do abuse local Superchargers. That's just a fact. I happen to know one.
Sadly, the existing freeloaders will remain freeloaders for many years.
Sadly, the existing freeloaders will remain freeloaders for many years.
arnis
Well-known member
TonyWilliams said:
I'm pretty sure that Tesla will continue to warn those owners not to use local charger and will ban them eventually.
When Tesla introduced SC they mentioned "only for long distance travel". Therefore it is totally
acceptable to ban using the same charger. To ban, not to ask fee. Non-home city SC's will still be unlimited.
Yes, SC are being abused. This will be heavily reduced soon. Charging at home will be cheaper
than charging at SC. Like I said, most likely SC kWh will cost like 110-200% of local electricity price.
And not night time tariff like at home, most likely people charge after work, therefore peak price.
This way Tesla does not have to monitor a million Tesla owners around the world for SC abuse.
Those who want to go crazy with supercharging (taxi, definitely) will pay.
Example:
1. Assume an average annual mileage of 12K.
2. Assume 200 miles per full charge.
3. Then 60 full charges per year.
4. Assume energy used per full charge is 80 kWh.
5. Total annual energy consumed is 4800 kWh. (over 10X the new Tesla limit)
6. Assume off-hours charging rate of $.10 / kWh for home charging.
7. Then the potential saving per year using the SC network is $480/year.
Most rational Tesla owners with nearby SC access and available time, e.g. shopping, movie, appointment,
and/or lunch/dinner, will not consider a potential $480/year electric bill savings insignificant and will utilize
the SC network as much as possible for most of their charging needs. So to assume that the SC network
is only utilized now for those doing long distance travel is naive.
Summary:
Using an average weekly travel of 200 miles per week (> 10K per year) for a Tesla owner and a weekly shopping
trip to a nearby SC location, a Tesla owner could easily fulfill all charging needs without any home charging.
1. Assume an average annual mileage of 12K.
2. Assume 200 miles per full charge.
3. Then 60 full charges per year.
4. Assume energy used per full charge is 80 kWh.
5. Total annual energy consumed is 4800 kWh. (over 10X the new Tesla limit)
6. Assume off-hours charging rate of $.10 / kWh for home charging.
7. Then the potential saving per year using the SC network is $480/year.
Most rational Tesla owners with nearby SC access and available time, e.g. shopping, movie, appointment,
and/or lunch/dinner, will not consider a potential $480/year electric bill savings insignificant and will utilize
the SC network as much as possible for most of their charging needs. So to assume that the SC network
is only utilized now for those doing long distance travel is naive.
Summary:
Using an average weekly travel of 200 miles per week (> 10K per year) for a Tesla owner and a weekly shopping
trip to a nearby SC location, a Tesla owner could easily fulfill all charging needs without any home charging.
Firetruck41
Well-known member
You are absolutely wrong, most Tesla owners will consider $40/mo insignificant, and not worth the 3 min to drive to a close by charger and back, much less to spend any time waiting for it to charge. Yeah, I know a few. Trust me, when they are buying a third Tesla for their 15 y/o kid, spending $40 is like many of us buying a $0.50 soda. Of course their are outliers, but no, the $40/mo saver is not the average Model S/Model X owner.lorenfb said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Sure it matters.
The implication was that most/all Tesla owners do this.
I'm not saying no Tesla owners do.
I'm just saying it isn't anywhere near the numbers implied.
As a Tesla owner I'm rather happy with the solution, especially if after the 400kWh it costs less than gas.
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