The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

[RegGuheert]

are turbines ICE's? the cruise ships are using turbines to run the generators and electric motors to push the ship. Sorry I did not make that clarification in my previous post.

If the combustion gases turn the turbine I think it would be considered an ICE. If the fuel heats water to make steam to push the blades then I think not an ICE.

Agreed. Turbine engines are in a class of internal combustion engines known as continuous combustion engines.

The combustion is pretty much in open air, at a fairly low compression.

The overall max compression ratio on modern turbofan engines used on commercial aircraft is over 50:1. The new GE9x turbofan now under development has a max overall compression ratio of 60:1. By comparison, most piston engines have quite low compression ratios.

 

[mendenmh]

Agreed, in a commercial jet engine, the compression can be pretty high. I don't want to get in a semantic argument here. I'm happy with the term 'continuous combustion', too.

The point I was going for is the nature of flame, which results in very clean operation, and little dependence on the type of fuel.

 

[RWatkins]

Ideally, I want one of THESE. But they ignored my queries.

-Phil

Not sure if you're still interested or saw this post on an Aussie forum from Jan/Feb 2012, but it has more info re it being still in prototype form and available for a HIGH cost.
http://forums.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=2888&title=mahle-range-extender-availability" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just got back from a few days holidays and had an email from Mahle:

<quote>
Brad,
The range extender is currently in development and being installed in a demo vehicle.
Prototype engines (including generator and inverter) can be supplied to interested parties - although they are quite expensive.
Let me know if you would like a budget quotation.

Kind regards

Daren Mottershead
MAHLE Powertrain Ltd.
Manager (Sales and Marketing)<quote>

Also, here's a link to another prototype ICE with interesting specs. It has a few Mahle connections.
http://www.dukeengines.com/application/range-ext/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[RWatkins]

Here's it's Inverter and Control electronics. It can produce any single-phase or 3-phase frequency/voltage (even DC), from 0 to 500v, and can also connect directly to the grid for grid-sell operation.

... the Capstone Microturbine generator is a 30kW, new they cost at least $30k...

Does the $30k include the inverter and control electronics? If so, that's worth a bit I'd think. Is it fairly simple to configure it for, and switch between, range extender use and home off-grid charging/power backup a la Kohlibri Power Brick? http://www.kolibri-ag.com/en/kolibribrick1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Just curious since I'm looking at possible new construction within a year or two.

 

[TomT]

Actually, with the possible exception of the military, most all large modern ships now use diesel generators driving electric motors for either pod drives or straight shaft drives, depending on the type of ship.

are turbines ICE's? the cruise ships are using turbines to run the generators and electric motors to push the ship.

 

[fooljoe]

It holds 16 gallons, and has an unlimited range as long as you refill it. (about 280 miles between refills)

Phil - updated pic looks awesome. So what trips have you taken with it so far? You've got to bring it down to So Cal to show it off sometime. One question: The above would indicate getting only 17.5 MPG. Is it really that bad or are the numbers off somewhere? In an earlier comment you said:

The best I can do is about 35mpg on Propane

It's encouraging to see that you and others are still working on this concept. I think the trailer-as-a-rental paradigm has a real future once the number of EVs (at least Leafs) out there reaches a critical mass (and assuming the mods to the car aren't too drastic.)

 

[Ingineer]

The propane tanks are only usable until the pressure drops and they boil, which ices them and prevents further use, so you can't ever get all 16 gallons out in this application.

-Phil

 

[N952JL]

The propane tanks are only usable until the pressure drops and they boil, which ices them and prevents further use, so you can't ever get all 16 gallons out in this application.

-Phil

What if you were using bio-desiel or maybe peanut oil?

 

[Ingineer]

What if you were using bio-desiel or maybe peanut oil?

My unit is set up for gaseous fuels only, so I'd have to convert it to liquid fuels, and that would be prohibitively expensive. Most of them are built for Natural Gas cogeneration use in buildings, as mine was. I was able to obtain it at low cost because of this, so that's what I used.

If Capstone Turbine wants to send me a liquid fuel unit, I'll be happy to convert it. Diesel fuel will run in it quite fine, though it won't be quite as clean as the propane.

-Phil

 

[aries]

What if you were using bio-desiel or maybe peanut oil?

My unit is set up for gaseous fuels only, so I'd have to convert it to liquid fuels, and that would be prohibitively expensive. Most of them are built for Natural Gas cogeneration use in buildings, as mine was. I was able to obtain it at low cost because of this, so that's what I used.

If Capstone Turbine wants to send me a liquid fuel unit, I'll be happy to convert it. Diesel fuel will run in it quite fine, though it won't be quite as clean as the propane.

-Phil

By the way, what does/did this turbine cost?

 

[Ingineer]

By the way, what does/did this turbine cost?

Last time I checked, they weren't too much more than about $1/watt. That makes the C30 around $30k base.

http://www.capstoneturbine.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-Phil

 

[RWatkins]

It weighs under 500lbs wet (fully fueled). The whole point is that it can be used in motion, directly powering the Leaf's motor. (This is done via a 400 volt umbilical connection) Since it's capable of up to 30kW, it can also recharge the Leaf's battery while underway. It can handle average speeds of 75mph without depleting the SoC.

How much would you charge for "a 400 volt umbilical connection" with instructions for connecting, source power spec requirements and basic setup tips/hints as a kit for others interested in setting up a similar towable range extender with power source of their choosing (battery pack, NG/propane, gasoline or diesel)?

Something like this would be a big help for those wanting to do a project range extender as it would eliminate the concern of interfacing with the LEAF's electrical system based on your proven design.

 

[webfootguy]

Have you guys taken a look at the Range Extender Module (prototype) designed by Bob Simpson? (see http://www.evdrive.com/prototypes/2010/08/25/close-look-2/). I've seen it in person when visiting Bob. The module fits into the spare tire space and puts out a max of 25kW although I think due to cooling constraints, the max continuous output will limited to closer to 20kW. The motor is a Wankel engine which has an excellent power to weight ratio. The output is variable high voltage DC which can be dumped directly into the pack.

Phil H.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Have you guys taken a look at the Range Extender Module (prototype) designed by Bob Simpson? (see http://www.evdrive.com/prototypes/2010/08/25/close-look-2/). I've seen it in person when visiting Bob. The module fits into the spare tire space and puts out a max of 25kW although I think due to cooling constraints, the max continuous output will limited to closer to 20kW. The motor is a Wankel engine which has an excellent power to weight ratio. The output is variable high voltage DC which can be dumped directly into the pack.

Phil H.

I don't know what motor he is using, but making a Wankel meet CARB rules is tough.

 

[KeiJidosha]

Have you guys taken a look at the Range Extender Module (prototype) designed by Bob Simpson? (see http://www.evdrive.com/prototypes/2010/08/25/close-look-2/). I've seen it in person when visiting Bob. The module fits into the spare tire space and puts out a max of 25kW although I think due to cooling constraints, the max continuous output will limited to closer to 20kW. The motor is a Wankel engine which has an excellent power to weight ratio. The output is variable high voltage DC which can be dumped directly into the pack.

Phil H.

I don't know what motor he is using, but making a Wankel meet CARB rules is tough.

I thought so as well. But much less an issue if operating at a fixed RPM, as in a generator. This was Audi's config in the A1 E-Tron, which has been shelved.

 

[RWatkins]

Have you guys taken a look at the Range Extender Module (prototype) designed by Bob Simpson? (see http://www.evdrive.com/prototypes/2010/08/25/close-look-2/). I've seen it in person when visiting Bob. The module fits into the spare tire space and puts out a max of 25kW although I think due to cooling constraints, the max continuous output will limited to closer to 20kW. The motor is a Wankel engine which has an excellent power to weight ratio. The output is variable high voltage DC which can be dumped directly into the pack.

Phil H.

I don't know what motor he is using, but making a Wankel meet CARB rules is tough.

Per an earlier post on his blog:

The proof of concept generator is actually another AC induction motor being driven directly by a 2 cylinder  V-twin CARB/EPA rated gas engine at a fixed speed. The AC motor is electrically connected to it’s own Inverter/controller running continuously in Regen mode, delivering up to 700 V directly into the battery pack that powers the BMWe drive train.

So sounds like it's possibly already CARB certified.

This will give the best of both worlds; unlimited range gas/electric hybrid. Greater than 90% of the driving is done within the 50 mile range so the REX pod will sit at home most the time. This design will also work perfectly behind the Rav4ev, making it unlimited as well.

 

[Ingineer]

How much would you charge for "a 400 volt umbilical connection" with instructions for connecting, source power spec requirements and basic setup tips/hints as a kit for others interested in setting up a similar towable range extender with power source of their choosing (battery pack, NG/propane, gasoline or diesel)?

By the time I get this in a form "ready for prime time", and purchase the liability insurance, I bet it's going to be astronomically expensive. Mainly because I bet I can only sell a few, and the costs would have to be amortized over the lot.

Sorry! I wish I could help! Unfortunately the reality is I need to concentrate on making things that will benefit the most EV'ers.

-Phil

 

[RWatkins]

How much would you charge for "a 400 volt umbilical connection" with instructions for connecting, source power spec requirements and basic setup tips/hints as a kit for others interested in setting up a similar towable range extender with power source of their choosing (battery pack, NG/propane, gasoline or diesel)?

By the time I get this in a form "ready for prime time", and purchase the liability insurance, I bet it's going to be astronomically expensive. Mainly because I bet I can only sell a few, and the costs would have to be amortized over the lot.

Sorry! I wish I could help! Unfortunately the reality is I need to concentrate on making things that will benefit the most EV'ers.

-Phil

Thanks for the reply. I didn't realize a basic connection kit would be so involved. Don't know til you ask. Looking forward to your LEAFScan.

 

[N952JL]

How much would you charge for "a 400 volt umbilical connection" with instructions for connecting, source power spec requirements and basic setup tips/hints as a kit for others interested in setting up a similar towable range extender with power source of their choosing (battery pack, NG/propane, gasoline or diesel)?

By the time I get this in a form "ready for prime time", and purchase the liability insurance, I bet it's going to be astronomically expensive. Mainly because I bet I can only sell a few, and the costs would have to be amortized over the lot.

Sorry! I wish I could help! Unfortunately the reality is I need to concentrate on making things that will benefit the most EV'ers.

-Phil

Phil,
I'm sorry you feel this is too expensive. I agree you need to concentrate on making things that will benefit the most EV'ers, but it would be very helpfull if you could make documents available for us to continue our own research. It could include a liability release form.

 

[Ingineer]

Phil,
I'm sorry you feel this is too expensive. I agree you need to concentrate on making things that will benefit the most EV'ers, but it would be very helpfull if you could make documents available for us to continue our own research. It could include a liability release form.

I'm not sure what you do for a living, clearly you must just give your services away for free, right? I'm sorry if I decline to drop what I'm doing and create a bunch of "documents" for no compensation so you can "continue research". You clearly are not qualified to be doing something as uber-dangerous as messing with 400 volts DC, or you wouldn't be asking for a "how-to" like this.

I think your best bet is to ask Nissan, after all you at least paid them for your car, so they must owe you untold hours of custom engineering consulting on their dime so you can electrocute yourself and then burn down your garage.

OK, maybe that was harsh, but please get real here.

-Phil