Toyota Mirai Fuel Cell

[GRA]

Nov. U.S. sales 105, making the total YTD 918, making it 18th if included in PEV sales, ahead of the Ford Focus Electric (800) and behind the BMW i8 (1,461).

 

[user 10599]

Nov. U.S. sales 105, making the total YTD 918, making it 18th if included in PEV sales, ahead of the Ford Focus Electric (800) and behind the BMW i8 (1,461).

Now that is really surprising to me. In my So Cal commutes, I've only seen one Mirai in the wild in private hands. Aren't all of the Mirai sales by definition restricted to LA and SF areas? If so, then with 918 split between these two markets I would think I would encounter them more frequently. Perhaps once delivered the new owners realize how hard it is to keep them fueled and ready to go and they are becoming driveway ornaments?

I see a lot more i8s on the road - usually at least 1 a week.

 

[GRA]

Nov. U.S. sales 105, making the total YTD 918, making it 18th if included in PEV sales, ahead of the Ford Focus Electric (800) and behind the BMW i8 (1,461).

Now that is really surprising to me. In my So Cal commutes, I've only seen one Mirai in the wild in private hands. Aren't all of the Mirai sales by definition restricted to LA and SF areas? If so, then with 918 split between these two markets I would think I would encounter them more frequently. Perhaps once delivered the new owners realize how hard it is to keep them fueled and ready to go and they are becoming driveway ornaments?

I see a lot more i8s on the road - usually at least 1 a week.

They're also on sale at one dealer in the Sacramento area. I've seen just two private Mirais (one at the local H2 station), but I think it's really dependent on zipcode. I'm in the East Bay, but not in a city with the income demographic that could afford a lot of them, although it is on a main commute route to eastern Alameda county. If I hung out at the local fuel station next to I-880 I'd expect to see them a lot more often. I imagine they're far more common in the South Bay, as there are three stations there now and lots of techy people with the income to afford them. Maybe the Peninsula and Marin county, too, as the 101 corridor is well served with stations.

i8 sightings vary for me, but I'd say it averages more like once every two or three months. I may see one twice in a week, then nothing for a long while.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would park a new $57,500 car as a driveway ornament. Maybe there are people so dumb that they lie to the dealer about where they live so they don't have a convenient place to fuel, but I'm assuming that anyone with a job that can afford that expensive a car is at least able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

[user 10599]

Got a call from Toyota today to inform me that there are now stations close enough to me and they have improved the lease and purchase offers. Checking the map, yes I could do it, but they are still missing at least one key station near work and that is in quite a gap on the map (5 and 605 fwys). And with the closest station to my home still 25 miles away until middle of 2017, that is just too much hassle. Sad part is they don't seem to have any plans for stations near work. They also don't have any along the 118 or 5 which is my normal route due to traffic considerations. So I will have to pass.

If they don't get more infrastructure in place by when I need to change out my current daily commuter, they won't have a chance to get my $ as viable mid-long range BEVs are coming online as we speak.

 

[GRA]

Got a call from Toyota today to inform me that there are now stations close enough to me and they have improved the lease and purchase offers. Checking the map, yes I could do it, but they are still missing at least one key station near work and that is in quite a gap on the map (5 and 605 fwys). And with the closest station to my home still 25 miles away until middle of 2017, that is just too much hassle. Sad part is they don't seem to have any plans for stations near work. They also don't have any along the 118 or 5 which is my normal route due to traffic considerations. So I will have to pass.

If they don't get more infrastructure in place by when I need to change out my current daily commuter, they won't have a chance to get my $ as viable mid-long range BEVs are coming online as we speak.

If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't, although from your route description wouldn't the Hollywood station be reasonably convenient for you during your commute (albeit with a detour off 5 to 101)? Is N. Hollywood or Thousand Oaks the station that would give you a station closer to home?

 

[user 10599]

I'm in Thousand Oaks/Simi Valley so when that station opens mid-2017 it will help tremendously. However, mid-2017 is already about a year overdue from what the map showed when I did my test drive in 2015. So I'm not holding my breath on the mid-2017 date.

As for the 101, yes that is a shorter route but takes longer due to the traffic so I almost always take the 118 path. Having major arteries like the 118 void as well as the huge hole near the large population and employment zone surrounding the 5/605/105 intersections doesn't make sense. I frequently fill up near work over lunch so I can proceed with the commute without interruption. They seem to think this tech is mostly relevant only to the affluent beach communities/Hollywood as a novelty rather than a serious commuter. But I guess they think Tesla proved that the way to launch a new tech is by focusing only on the affluent for the first 8 or so years.

Yes, once the Thousand Oaks station opens, it is possible as I can fuel up near home. But the lack of options where I go should I forget one refueling or plans change and I need to adjust is rather disconcerting. At least in a BEV when there isn't a commercial station there is likely to be someone that will let me plug in for a while with a bit of reimbursement. With FCEV, commercial stations are the only option.

That said, my current commuter might well last long enough that they can get the infrastructure built out in time. So when it does need to be replaced, I will check this option and assess at that time. However, the continuing delays in getting that map deployed plus the blatant gaps where no stations are even planned does not bode well.

On the plus side, I saw my 2nd Mirai in the wild today. It was in the parking garage for a medical office building in Santa Monica just a couple blocks away from the Santa Monica station.

 

[cwerdna]

Nov. U.S. sales 105, making the total YTD 918, making it 18th if included in PEV sales, ahead of the Ford Focus Electric (800) and behind the BMW i8 (1,461).

Now that is really surprising to me. In my So Cal commutes, I've only seen one Mirai in the wild in private hands. Aren't all of the Mirai sales by definition restricted to LA and SF areas? If so, then with 918 split between these two markets I would think I would encounter them more frequently. Perhaps once delivered the new owners realize how hard it is to keep them fueled and ready to go and they are becoming driveway ornaments?

I see a lot more i8s on the road - usually at least 1 a week.

I saw another one in the past week. It was a dark blue one here in the Bay Area (South Bay portion) and didn't have plates yet.

There's an H2 station just down the street about 1.5 miles away from my work. I pass that station almost every single day when leaving from work. I have no interest in the Mirai but it wouldn't be hard to me for keep it fueled unless that station and the 2 below went down.

From http://cafcp.org/stationmap, there's another <4 miles from my work but it's in the wrong direction for me (opposite of where I go home). There's another about 12 miles north of my work, but even further in the wrong direction from home (SE of work). However, I do semi-frequently pass/visit that area.

Other than the one at my work (I know the driver), I don't think I've ever seen an i8 on the road. I'm guessing there'd be more i8's in/around LA.

 

[GRA]

<snip>
Other than the one at my work (I know the driver), I don't think I've ever seen an i8 on the road. I'm guessing there'd be more i8's in/around LA.

Now that's weird. I'd have expected that you'd see a lot more of them than I would. We've got at least one local, and I've seen others every couple of months. I've even had at least one day where an i8 was the first PEV I've seen within seconds of walking out my front gate. I think the rarest so far was having that first PEV of the day be an ELR, and I've even seen an Accord PHEV (twice!), although not the first of the day. I've never ID'ed any of the Porsches or a Sonata PHEV, but I don't know what distinguishing marks they have, so they could be passing by all the time and I wouldn't know it. Finally confirmed my first X5 Xdrive 40e a couple of weeks back, but haven't ID'ed any of the others other than a car-shared Active E a couple of years back. Seen a few B-class, but can't confirm any of the other Mercs yet.

 

[GRA]

Per IEVS, Dec. U.S. Mirai sales 116, and 1,034 for the year. Likely to retain what would be #18th place on the PEV list, as the Focus FFE isn't likely to sell 235 cars in December, as they've only sold in the triple-digits (110) once month this year, double-digits all others.

 

[smkettner]

Did I read Toyota was to ramp up production to 6,000 units in 2017?
Good luck.

 

[lorenfb]

Per IEVS, Dec. U.S. Mirai sales 116, and 1,034 for the year. Likely to retain what would be #18th place on the PEV list, as the Focus FFE isn't likely to sell 235 cars in December, as they've only sold in the triple-digits (110) once month this year, double-digits all others.

Pulling data from the noise level!

 

[GRA]

Did I read Toyota was to ramp up production to 6,000 units in 2017?
Good luck.

I don't remember that, but could be. Upthread I linked to an ABG article where they said they were only expecting 3k sales total (worldwide?) by the end of 2017: http://www.autoblog.com/2015/07/16/peek-into-plans-sell-toyota-mirai-hydrogen/

My memory was that they were planning on about 1k U.S. sales the first year, 3k the second, and I think they fell a bit short of that (I forget what month they debuted here - October 2015?).

OT P.S. Hey, the FFE broke the triple digit barrier (just barely: 101) for the second time this year. Gives them 901 for the year.

 

[GRA]

Had the near equivalent of a Unicorn sighting yesterday. Within 30 seconds, I saw not one but two Mirais. They weren't traveling together, as they were on different streets at an intersection, and they were a couple of miles from the nearest H2 station (the only other place I've seen one in the wild), so that wasn't a factor. Oddly enough, despite all varieties/generations of the Prius being ubiquitous around here, I've yet to spot a Prime (but have already seen two, possibly three Bolts).

 

[cwerdna]

I saw a dark blue Mirai refueling at the H2 station just down the road from my work in the past week or so. Last night, while leaving work, I saw a brand new dark blue Mirai (no plates yet) in my work's parking lot.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Have you seen this yet?

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1108482_simplefuel-home-hydrogen-fuel-dispenser-wins-1-million-doe-prize

A step towards ubiquitous solar or wind powered H2 stations?
Would be pricey for a home station.

 

[TonyWilliams]

My memory was that they were planning on about 1k U.S. sales the first year, 3k the second, and I think they fell a bit short of that (I forget what month they debuted here - October 2015?).

OT P.S. Hey, the FFE broke the triple digit barrier (just barely: 101) for the second time this year. Gives them 901 for the year.

The two cars (hydrogen Toyota and Ford Focus Electric) have somewhat different jobs:

1) Toyota uses their car almost exclusively for ZEV credit in a few of the largest compliance states (California, and the very compact northeast CARB states in the near future). Because it gets "super credit" and is exempt from being REQUIRED to be sold outside California, they are in a great position to sell very few which allows them to keep pumping out gasoline Tundras and Siennas. Each hydrogen car earns 9 credits this year, and 4 credits in the future.

2) Ford must also earn the CARB-ZEV credits, since 2012, just like Toyota, but they also have agreements with the US government in exchange for a loan of $5 billion for "advanced" motor designs (to offset the $50 billion that GM got, and billions Chrysler got). That's why the Focus is sold "nationwide", plus starting next year, auto manufacturers with over $40 billion in revenue will be required to sell their EVs in all ten of the CARB -ZEV states stating in Model Year 2018. The Focus earns 3 credits now, and will earn 2 credit next year (maybe 3, depending on how they can bump it over the 150 mile range UDDS threshold).

None of these cars put a dent in EPA-CAFE requirements, and it likely that Trump will find a way to reduce or eleiminate that, as well as attack the entire ZEV program. Watch how fast they all forget ZEV, just like 2003.

 

[GRA]

Have you seen this yet?

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1108482_simplefuel-home-hydrogen-fuel-dispenser-wins-1-million-doe-prize

A step towards ubiquitous solar or wind powered H2 stations?
Would be pricey for a home station.

Yes, already mentioned in the H2 and FCEV topic.

 

[GRA]

Via ABG, Toyota's apparently willing to spend big bucks to advertise the Mirai: The Mirai has flower power in Toyota's [b]Super Bowl ad[/b] http://www.autoblog.com/2017/02/02/toyota-mirai-super-bowl-ad-flower-power/

. . . The Super Bowl ad's reach will be as limited as the market for the Mirai and the infrastructure used to fuel it. As Automotive News reports, the commercial will only air in the markets of LA and San Francisco. If that's where you'll be watching the game, look for the ad before the halftime show. The spot – which originally wasn't going to air on game day – marks the beginning of a larger marketing campaign for the Mirai ending in July.

 

[Zythryn]

Via ABG, Toyota's apparently willing to spend big bucks to advertise the Mirai: The Mirai has flower power in Toyota's [b]Super Bowl ad[/b] http://www.autoblog.com/2017/02/02/toyota-mirai-super-bowl-ad-flower-power/

. . . The Super Bowl ad's reach will be as limited as the market for the Mirai and the infrastructure used to fuel it. As Automotive News reports, the commercial will only air in the markets of LA and San Francisco. If that's where you'll be watching the game, look for the ad before the halftime show. The spot – which originally wasn't going to air on game day – marks the beginning of a larger marketing campaign for the Mirai ending in July.

Wish they would instead build another hydrogen station

 

[TonyWilliams]

Via ABG, Toyota's apparently willing to spend big bucks to advertise the Mirai: The Mirai has flower power in Toyota's [b]Super Bowl ad[/b] http://www.autoblog.com/2017/02/02/toyota-mirai-super-bowl-ad-flower-power/

. . . The Super Bowl ad's reach will be as limited as the market for the Mirai and the infrastructure used to fuel it. As Automotive News reports, the commercial will only air in the markets of LA and San Francisco. If that's where you'll be watching the game, look for the ad before the halftime show. The spot – which originally wasn't going to air on game day – marks the beginning of a larger marketing campaign for the Mirai ending in July.

That looks a little desperate. I guess poor sales is nothing that cubic dollars can't fix ;-)