Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

[Travis]

Battery replacements are now available for purchase at your certified Nissan LEAF dealers in the United States. The suggested retail price of the Nissan LEAF battery pack is $5,499.

This is GREAT news Brian. That is the announcement I've been waiting to hear. I have been a happy owner of a used leaf however I've had this fear of what will happen with the battery. This puts that firmly to rest and now I can finally just enjoy the car.

The people like me who purchased one used got the deal of the CENTURY. I stole the car. There is NO WAY I could have afforded one new. This news just works out perfect for me. YAY!!! Thanks Nissan. The fear of batteries made all this possible. I got a brand new car for a clunker price thanks to this slow news.

Add to that the news that the new packs are 300 pounds lighter and its even better. Even if it doesn't have a huge impact on the energy use per mile it will allow me to carry more weight and stay within the cars ratings.

As others have mentioned there are multiple posts every week asking if a used Leaf is a good investment. I have been very vocal in my support of purchasing these used cars. I knew that Nissan couldn't make these batteries "Unobtanium" and leave everyone out in the cold.

....And for my offtopic....

With the price of new batteries now set this news should bring down the value of used packs inside the junk yards. All of us with solar systems could start breaking them open and rewiring the packs for lower voltages. I cannot wait to get my hands on one of these packs. I have big projects planned once I get one. Even a well worn pack would be WONDERFUL!

 

[TimLee]

Battery replacements are now available for purchase at your certified Nissan LEAF dealers in the United States. The suggested retail price of the Nissan LEAF battery pack is $5,499.

...
The people like me who purchased one used got the deal of the CENTURY. I stole the car. There is NO WAY I could have afforded one new. This news just works out perfect for me. YAY!!! Thanks Nissan. The fear of batteries made all this possible. I got a brand new car for a clunker price thanks to this slow news.
...
As others have mentioned there are multiple posts every week asking if a used Leaf is a good investment. I have been very vocal in my support of purchasing these used cars. I knew that Nissan couldn't make these batteries "Unobtanium" and leave everyone out in the cold.
...

I'm glad Nissan bailed you out on what appeared to be marginal advice at the time you were spreading it
Glad you got a great deal on a used LEAF.
With availability of replacement battery at a likely below Nissan's cost price a $12,000 used LEAF with low miles and only one capacity bar loss or less is the best price on owning an electric vehicle ever.

I think Nissan finally recognized that overall viability and cost effectiveness of the LEAF program required it. Nissan themselves couldn't afford for LEAF used price to keep tanking as fast as it has.
They would have saved money had they made the decision quicker.

 

[mkjayakumar]

I want to add to the chorus of 'Great job Nissan on a great price for a new battery'.

 

[RegGuheert]

Add to that the news that the new packs are 300 pounds lighter and its even better. Even if it doesn't have a huge impact on the energy use per mile it will allow me to carry more weight and stay within the cars ratings.

It's more like 66 pounds lighter, but you have to purchase a kit to adapt the new battery into the older vehicles. We do not yet know the weight of that thing. I would bet its WAY less than 66 lbs., though.

 

[alanlarson]

Sorry for now being more clear but he got the point. Instead of burning gas, I am now burning batteries. Lets say I bought a VW diesel, have I saved money compared to that diesel? Previous poster said in year 4, I get a free battery. But from what Nissan told me, it will be any battery as long as it has more than 9 bars. So I would drop down to 8 bars, get a new battery pack and it is at 9 bars?

I would say you have NOT saved money over a VW diesel.

I was driving a Jetta TDI diesel. I carefully compared fuel cost before, and have re-done it since.

The Jetta was running just over 47 mpg combined city/highway, $4.06/gal, for 8.638 cents/mile.
The Leaf is running 4.3 miles/kWh overall, 37.75 cents/kWh, for 8.779 cents/mile.
That is less than 2 percent difference.

Due to our daytime power needs, time of use power is not a good choice for us.

I'll keep driving the Jetta for the longer, faster, trips.

Alan

 

[TomT]

It will be interesting to see what affect the battery availability actually has on used car prices... As was discussed elsewhere on the forum, it may in fact be minimal in the broader market...

Nissan themselves couldn't afford for LEAF used price to keep tanking as fast as it has.

 

[keydiver]

The Leaf is running 4.3 miles/kWh overall, 37.75 cents/kWh, for 8.779 cents/mile.

Most people don't pay 37.75 cents/kWh! The national average is like 10-11 cents. Without my solar I would be paying ~2.5 cents/mile.

 

[myleaf]

Sorry for now being more clear but he got the point. Instead of burning gas, I am now burning batteries. Lets say I bought a VW diesel, have I saved money compared to that diesel? Previous poster said in year 4, I get a free battery. But from what Nissan told me, it will be any battery as long as it has more than 9 bars. So I would drop down to 8 bars, get a new battery pack and it is at 9 bars?

I would say you have NOT saved money over a VW diesel.

I was driving a Jetta TDI diesel. I carefully compared fuel cost before, and have re-done it since.

The Jetta was running just over 47 mpg combined city/highway, $4.06/gal, for 8.638 cents/mile.
The Leaf is running 4.3 miles/kWh overall, 37.75 cents/kWh, for 8.779 cents/mile.
That is less than 2 percent difference.

Due to our daytime power needs, time of use power is not a good choice for us.

I'll keep driving the Jetta for the longer, faster, trips.

Alan

You should consider installing solar

 

[pkulak]

The Leaf is running 4.3 miles/kWh overall, 37.75 cents/kWh, for 8.779 cents/mile.

Good Lord, are you ever getting fleeced for electricity! Sounds like peak rate coal-based power? If that's the case, isn't there a couple hours in the early morning where it drops down into single digits?

 

[dgalvan]

The Leaf is running 4.3 miles/kWh overall, 37.75 cents/kWh, for 8.779 cents/mile.

Holy crap!

I live in Los Angeles, and my Tier 1 rate is 14 cents/kWh. Tier 2 is ~17 cents, and Tier 3 is something less than 25 cents. (I generally only use a bit of Tier 2, none of Tier 3)

 

[nlagnew]

I want to add to the chorus of 'Great job Nissan on a great price for a new battery'.

I'll add to it as well. I love my car and enjoy driving it very much. The new battery info is very helpful.

I'm thinking I will lose my first bar any day now. It is 2 and a half years old (32 months), has 26,400-ish miles. I won't be needing a replacement battery soon, but it is nice to have a ballpark figure of how much to be putting aside.
Nancy

 

[johnrhansen]

A technical question... when my car is 10 years old, and has 160,000 miles on it, would I be able to expect another 100,000 miles of economic life from it to make it worth changing the battery? Living in Washington, and looking at the distances I need for it to operate, that's about the time I think It will need to be replaced. I'm thinking the replacement battery will only be needed in the warmer climates.

 

[myleaf]

A technical question... when my car is 10 years old, and has 160,000 miles on it, would I be able to expect another 100,000 miles of economic life from it to make it worth changing the battery? Living in Washington, and looking at the distances I need for it to operate, that's about the time I think It will need to be replaced. I'm thinking the replacement battery will only be sold in the warmer climates.

Currently, as I understand, the replacement battery is available across the nation.

 

[dhanson865]

A technical question... when my car is 10 years old, and has 160,000 miles on it, would I be able to expect another 100,000 miles of economic life from it to make it worth changing the battery? Living in Washington, and looking at the distances I need for it to operate, that's about the time I think It will need to be replaced. I'm thinking the replacement battery will only be sold in the warmer climates.

Currently, as I understand, the replacement battery is available across the nation.

He isn't discussing availability, he is discussing need or desire.

The thought being the degradation might be slow enough and the performance good enough that users in the north might not buy the packs even if they are available.

 

[JPWhite]

A technical question... when my car is 10 years old, and has 160,000 miles on it, would I be able to expect another 100,000 miles of economic life from it to make it worth changing the battery? Living in Washington, and looking at the distances I need for it to operate, that's about the time I think It will need to be replaced. I'm thinking the replacement battery will only be needed in the warmer climates.

Nissan didn't originally have a battery replacement program because the design objective was that that should not be necessary, the battery would last the life of the car. So for climates where the battery is performing to design, I agree with you a replacement may not make sense. In warmer climates with the 2011-14 battery, a replacement maybe justified and called for.

 

[edatoakrun]

... when my car is 10 years old, and has 160,000 miles on it, would I be able to expect another 100,000 miles of economic life from it to make it worth changing the battery? ...

If I decide to hold onto my leaf into the next decade (which now looks likely) I may also decide to replace my battery before it loses ~30% capacity.

But I doubt I'll have to buy a replacement from Nissan.

I expect there to be plenty of used/rebuilt/aftermarket pack choices by that time, and for far less than ~$6,000.

This is the major advantage of owning a mass-production BEV, as opposed as any of the low-volume compliance BEVs on the US market.

Hundreds of thousands of LEAFs (and other battery Nissan/Renault vehicles with compatible battery designs) on the road will build a market for replacement pack options.

Notice Chevy/Ford/Toyota/Fiat/Mercedes have not responded with their own BEV pack replacement prices?

Wonder when they will?

I expect it to be very difficult and expensive to keep one of those BEVs on the road, in it's second decade.

 

[TomT]

One very salient point here is that none of those other manufacturers have had the (widely publicized) accelerated degradation problem that Nissan has had. Thus, there IS no immediate need for a battery replacement at any price, and likely won't be for some years... I'm sure that further down the road, when they finally have a need for a replacement program, they'll announce prices too.

Notice Chevy/Ford/Toyota/Fiat/Mercedes have not responded with their own BEV pack replacement prices?

 

[Anonymous]

One very salient point here is that none of those other manufacturers have had the (widely publicized) accelerated degradation problem that Nissan has had. Thus, there IS no immediate need for a battery replacement at any price, and likely won't be for some years... I'm sure that further down the road, when they finally have a need for a replacement program, they'll announce prices too.

Notice Chevy/Ford/Toyota/Fiat/Mercedes have not responded with their own BEV pack replacement prices?

I own a Smart ED, and our warrantee is only for 4 years, which is far less than many other EV's. The car is only about a year into production (for the newest GEN III model), and I am aware of only a few owners with more than 20,000km on their cars. To date, no degredation has been noticed or reported. The Smart ED uses a NMC chemistry and has fully conditioned (cool/heat) battery management system, which might help. Then again, most of the sales have been to CARB states as it has only been available nationwide in US for a short time, so relatively much smaller percentage of cars sold to hotter states (Arizona, etc).

 

[edatoakrun]

Notice Chevy/Ford/Toyota/Fiat/Mercedes have not responded with their own BEV pack replacement prices?

="TomT" One very salient point here is that none of those other manufacturers have had the (widely publicized) accelerated degradation problem that Nissan has had. Thus, there IS no immediate need for a battery replacement at any price, and likely won't be for some years...

I expect by the time many of those compliance BEVs cover over 120,000 miles (and some, far fewer) as has TaylorSF's LEAF, they probably will be in the market for a replacement battery.

Which brings up another interesting point.

Since Nissan has not set any variable credit or minimum conditions for the trade-in battery capacity, there is an incentive for LEAF owners to delay the trade-in as long as possible.

Why not, since Nissan's policy is to pay the same $1,000 for a 50% capacity battery, as a 90% one?

As TaylorSF has mentioned, he plans (quite sensibly) to continue to use his ~121 k LEAF for his daily ~130 mile commute:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=17204" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And it sounds to me like Nissan may wish to restrict the trade-in offer to the factory-installed battery pack.

="BBrockman"

...Battery replacements are now available for purchase at your certified Nissan LEAF dealers in the United States. The suggested retail price of the Nissan LEAF battery pack is $5,499. This price includes and requires a return of your original battery pack (valued at $1,000) to the dealer in exchange for the new battery...

This might be intended to prevent a LEAF owner for example, with ~80% of original battery capacity, from realizing a profit from swapping with a LEAF owner with a truly worn-out battery (one beneath repurposing value) then trading that one in for the $1,000 credit.

But this may present a problem for LEAF owners who want or need a battery closer to new capacity.

I expect I'll probably want to replace my pack at ~80% of new capacity, when it can longer comfortably complete my 50-60 mile regular trip (starting out with ~2000 ft. total descent, returning with the same ascent, and with no public charge sites en route) in winter.

At that point, my pack will still have the capacity to provide tens of thousand of miles and many years of service to someone who only wants to use their LEAF as a shorter-range vehicle. And of course, I would like to be paid for that use of my battery, the remaining fraction of the utility I paid for in 2011.

I may decide to just sell the entire car, and buy a new or used BEV replacement (and that may turn out to be the cheapest way to swap batteries) but I hope I'll have other choices.

Hopefully, the aftermarket will give me options that Nissan does not...at least not yet.

 

[abasile]

I expect I'll probably want to replace my pack at ~80% of new capacity

You are probably pretty close to 80% already, aren't you?

...when it can no longer comfortably complete my...regular trip...in winter.

Yes, it is of course in winter that capacity losses are felt most acutely. Based on this, and the general desire to keep using the old pack as long as it's practical, I predict that autumn (or the onset of winter weather) will become the busiest season for replacements.

It would still be nice to buy a Tesla at some point, but it would be a whole lot cheaper to replace our LEAF's battery pack to restore its original utility for regional driving, buck up and pay $10+ per CHAdeMO QC session, and keep driving the Prius on occasional, long trips. The question is, do I truly want to spend $90K on a vehicle? If Nissan can compete with Tesla Gen III in a few years, then there's a possibility they could sell us our next EV. (For me, that battery pack price announcement was hugely significant.)