Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

[redLEAF]

How about a look back on who else has done this ... (2nd time for VW); of course this one could potentially set a record for the eventual size of the fines imposed



http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/vw-emissions-defeat-device-isnt-first#ixzz3mlD6L32i

 

[cwerdna]

...
As for "12V battery cannot handle that duty", is there such an auto-start vehicle that has this problem?

Almost all of them.
The 12V lead acid battery with the limited charging system on most ICE vehicles just does not keep up, other than in the modest duration EPA test cycle.

So in real world driving they deliver only a fraction of the benefit seen in the EPA test.

But as you point out, even that benefit was small and due to that and the near uselessness of them and customers being irritated by frequent 12V battery replacements, some of the manufacturers are getting rid of the start stop systems.

I'm not sure your statements are correct.

Also, it seems you have your numbers reversed. As stated in what I quoted, there are figures that in the EPA tests, the benefits can be only 0.1% or a little more than 0.1 mpg. At http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/do-stop-start-systems-really-save-fuel.html, they found about a 10% benefit in city traffic.

Examples of "some of the manufacturers are getting rid of the start stop systems"?

Volkswagen rigged millions of diesel tests in Germany:
http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/24/news/companies/volkswagen-emission-scandal-ceo/index.html

The German government said Friday that the company had illegally manipulated emissions on 2.8 million diesel vehicles in Germany.

"The manipulation of diesel emissions by Volkswagen is forbidden and illegal, there's no doubt about that," Alexander Dobrindt, the government's top transport official told lawmakers...

 

[TomT]

A few more Audi and Porsche heads roll...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/24/us-audi-scandal-idUSKCN0RO19S20150924

 

[evnow]

A few more Audi and Porsche heads roll...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/24/us-audi-scandal-idUSKCN0RO19S20150924

Given how far back this goes - and the how many people must have been aware of this (hundreds ?) - I won't be surprised if we learn later that this was an open secret at VW (and other auto makers).

If only VW was cheating - and not others - I'd have expected this to have come out earlier. The competitors would have surely found this out (either because of people movement or independent testing) and would have exposed this, either openly or by leaking this information.

This is what makes me feel the cheating is not confined to VW.

 

[GRA]

Seems to be the ever increasing lack of ethics by more and more businesses.

The use of engine shutoff to improve EPA test results when in the real world the 12V battery cannot handle that duty is also pretty unethical too.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. <snip>
As for "12V battery cannot handle that duty", is there such an auto-start vehicle that has this problem?

Most of the mild-hybrid/electric supercharger/auto-start-stop systems I'm reading about seem to be 48V.

 

[GRA]

Via GCC:

California ARB to begin enhanced testing of modern light-duty diesel engines to detect emissions cheating

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/09/20150925-arbtesting.html

The California Air Resources Board sent a letter to automobile manufacturers notifying them that ARB will begin using enhanced testing procedures for modern light-duty diesel vehicles to determine compliance with emission levels to which they were originally certified. . . .

In the letter, Annette Hebert, Chief, Emissions Compliance, Automotive Regulations and Science Division, warns the manufacturers:

"Beginning immediately, ARB will begin to utilize recently developed screening tests, which are based on ARB’s original work for assessing performance of modern light duty diesel engines, in ARB’s In-Use Compliance Program for non-approved AECD [auxiliary emission control device] and defeat device identification. The AECD and defeat device screening tests will be based on ARB’s newly-developed detection methods, and may include onboard diagnostic system interrogation, and/or the use of special driving cycles and conditions that may reasonably be expected to be encountered in normal operation and use. This new screening testing approach shall be in addition to the standard certification emissions test cycles.

"In the event that a suspected, non-approved AECD or defeat device is discovered through the use of the screening tests, the manufacturer will be notified, and will be expected to deliver production, or procure in-use, vehicles for additional in-use compliance evaluation by ARB at the manufacturer’s expense… In addition, ARB may require remedial measures to be taken at the manufacturer’s expense, and the manufacturer may be subject to penalties, as allowed by law. As always, if there are any other violations ARB regulations discovered, ARB will take appropriate action, as allowed by law."

In addition, ARB made the following statement regarding actions related to cars with diesel engines manufactured by Volkswagen.

"The California Air Resources Board (CARB) and the United States Environmental Protection Agency (USEPA) are working with Volkswagen to evaluate potential recall solutions for the affected vehicles. The September 18, 2015 CARB In-Use Compliance letter and USEPA Notice of Violation cover three generations of Volkswagen four-cylinder diesel vehicles.

"Both CARB and USEPA will evaluate the technical solutions that Volkswagen develops to ensure their emissions performance is corrected back or close to expected levels in real world driving. Recall actions proposed by Volkswagen will also be scrutinized for any potential adverse impacts on consumers. As both agencies and Volkswagen get closer to final recall solutions, those solutions will be communicated to consumers through the media and more formally by Volkswagen through recall action letters to affected vehicle owners.

"CARB will take actions that protect public health, air quality and consumers by aggressively continuing its ongoing investigation into Volkswagen’s defeat device, with additional testing and investigation of the potential presence of similar devices in vehicles across manufacturers."

In other words, "if you don't confess now, you can forget a plea bargain."

 

[TimLee]

I'm not sure your statements are correct.

Also, it seems you have your numbers reversed. As stated in what I quoted, there are figures that in the EPA tests, the benefits can be only 0.1% or a little more than 0.1 mpg. At http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/do-stop-start-systems-really-save-fuel.html, they found about a 10% benefit in city traffic.

Examples of "some of the manufacturers are getting rid of the start stop systems"?

Volkswagen rigged millions of diesel tests in Germany:
http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/24/news/companies/volkswagen-emission-scandal-ceo/index.html

I didn't provide any figures.

The information that multiple OEMs are indifferent to the 12V battery they are using being ineffective for start stop systems and that they don't care if they work as long as they get some positive result on the EPA lab test came from a battery expert that has talked with quite a few of them.

Not directly applicable to VW directly cheating, but another example that many do not care about the real world result.

They care about hitting a target on an EPA test and being allowed to certify and sale the vehicles, whether they accomplish the result in real driving.

 

[edatoakrun]

...taking the low estimate of an additional 3 U.S. deaths/yr, that works out to 20 extra deaths (6 2/3 yrs x 3) from 2009 to current. Taking the high estimate, that would be 153 extra deaths. And remember, these estimates only count direct effects of NOx, not the effects of more smog. So, "probably killed far more people" may be an exaggeration (GM deaths 124) or it may not, depending on the effects of smog.

The worldwide death toll is, of course, distributed by where the "clean diesels" were driven, so relatively few deaths from illegal emissions occurred in the USA, since relatively few diesel VW's were sold and driven here.

Another guesstimate of US/worldwide deaths here:

Volkswagen's Emissions Conspiracy May Have Killed at Least 4,000 People Worldwide

How many people did VW's NOx defeat device kill? Over the weekend I did a rough estimate and figured that over the past six years VW's excess NOx emissions probably killed about a dozen people in Southern California. Since then I've slightly revised my spreadsheet to account for an error, which increases my estimate to about 17 people killed. My figuring was based on:

50,000 cars sold in Southern California between 2009-2014

3,800 excess tons of NOx over six years

0.0044 deaths per ton of NOx

VW sold 500,000 altered cars in the US and 11 million cars worldwide, so this extrapolates to about 170 deaths in the United States and about 3,700 deaths worldwide...

My full spreadsheet is here. I invite comments.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/09/spreadsheet-day-how-many-people-did-vw-kill

 

[mjblazin]

While I can see the regulator going after VW, I do not how the VW owners suffered a wrong requiring compensation. They got enhanced performance and simply go back to the standard performance. I am sure they could find a lawyer to claim reduced trade in/sales price, but only after they sold the car. Unless you sold in the last week, you have not had a wrong and you would have to prove other factors were not more important in your return. I expect regulators to take VW to the woodshed, but I do not see opportunity for slug owners and slug lawyers (guilty of redundancy) to reap a benefit.

 

[wwhitney]

They got enhanced performance and simply go back to the standard performance.

Weren't these cars marketed as having that "enhanced performance" AND being clean? If cleaning up the emissions means the owners have reduced performance or gas mileage, they have suffered a loss.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Nubo]

…many [manufacturers] do not care about the real world result.

They care about hitting a target on an EPA test and being allowed to certify and sale the vehicles, whether they accomplish the result in real driving.

To be expected and so I see that as more of a failing by the EPA to ensure their tests and requirements have appropriate relevancy. Stipulate how many start/stop cycles the battery/starter can endure, etc… Its either incompetence, or worse EPA knows the score and it's window-dressing all around.

 

[GRA]

They got enhanced performance and simply go back to the standard performance.

Weren't these cars marketed as having that "enhanced performance" AND being clean? If cleaning up the emissions means the owners have reduced performance or gas mileage, they have suffered a loss.

Cheers, Wayne

Indeed, but only to performance (assuming that it does decrease) and not MPG, if fixing the emissions controls only drops the mileage to the EPA ratings that they've routinely exceeded until now. That loss of real-world mpg does figure in the loss of value, though, as their cars' ability to exceed the EPA mpg is widely known, even if VW never claimed it (and couldn't, legally).

 

[JimSouCal]

While I can see the regulator going after VW, I do not how the VW owners suffered a wrong requiring compensation. They got enhanced performance and simply go back to the standard performance. I am sure they could find a lawyer to claim reduced trade in/sales price, but only after they sold the car. Unless you sold in the last week, you have not had a wrong and you would have to prove other factors were not more important in your return. I expect regulators to take VW to the woodshed, but I do not see opportunity for slug owners and slug lawyers (guilty of redundancy) to reap a benefit.

I explained my reasoning in an earlier post. If one bought the car solely based on relying on the emission performance and power output, then the contract between owner and seller was violated [edit; I'd call it fraud in a legal sense]. How is that a reach? I'd be furious if I relied on their claims... I never believed them in the first place but that's a separate issue.

 

[GRA]

John Voelcker at GCR has a good article on why (in his opinion) VW did what it did:

Why Did Volkswagen Cheat On Diesel Emissions In Its TDI Cars?

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100225_why-did-volkswagen-cheat-on-diesel-emissions-in-its-tdi-cars

 

[Valdemar]

What VW did is wrong and there is no excuse for it. But is it just me who thinks that EPA with its more lax rules for trucks and SUVs and V6/V8 happy Americans is at least a little tiny bit hypocritical? I wouldn't lose any sleep thinking I'm causing death driving a Golf TDI if I had one considering the number of trucks and big SUVs I see on the street I live.

 

[TomT]

Yes, the EPA caved to the full-size SUV and truck lobby as that is where American manufacturers make a good portion of their profits... One of those diesels normally emits far more than any rigged VW/Audi diesel...

What VW did is wrong and there is no excuse for it. But is it just me who thinks that EPA with its more lax rules for trucks and SUVs and V6/V8 happy Americans is at least a little tiny bit hypocritical?

 

[Valdemar]

Yes, the EPA caved to the full-size SUV and truck lobby as that is where American manufacturers make a good portion of their profits... One of those diesels normally emits far more than any rigged VW/Audi diesel...

What VW did is wrong and there is no excuse for it. But is it just me who thinks that EPA with its more lax rules for trucks and SUVs and V6/V8 happy Americans is at least a little tiny bit hypocritical?

Capitalism at its best...

 

[edatoakrun]

IMO, it may soon be easier to list the VW and Bosch emissions engineers who did not know about the defeat device program, than those who did.

I'm more curious as to when we will see the EPA, CARB, and KBA (?) bureaucrats testifying that they were shocked, SHOCKED! to find out that any ICEV manufactures were optimizing emission profiles to pass the various inspection regimes.

#Dieselgate: What did they know (lots), and when did they know it (2007)

September 27, 2015 By Bertel Schmitt

Volkswagen’s diesel debacle marches on. A Volkswagen engineer warned his bosses in 2011 that he had detected “illegal methods in connection with exhaust readings,” writes the Frankfurter Allgemeine. And earlier in 2007, supplier Bosch warned Volkswagen not to use its technology in an illegal way, writes Bild am Sonntag ...

Meanwhile, Germany’s NHTSA-equivalent KBA sent Volkswagen a letter, demanding a “definitive action plan and schedule” that states whether and until when cars will comply with EU emission rules after the defeat device has been removed. There is not much time to make these plans. The KBA demands an answer by October 7. If Volkswagen does not comply with the order, the KBA can revoke their EU type approval, meaning new cars can no longer be sold, existing cars may no longer be driven. This could take around 10 million cars off Europe’s roads. EU type approvals are issued by national authorities such as the KBA, but they apply throughout the EU.

http://dailykanban.com/2015/09/dieselgate-what-did-they-know-lots-and-when-did-they-know-it-2007/

 

[timhebb]

A number of other sources have suggested that there is actually more to it than that, and that is a more sophisticated cheat involving more than just steering angle... We won't know for sure until the true story and code comes out.

The solution, rather than relying on deep software integration, is almost shockingly low-tech.

From CNBC:

"...This software was able to sense when emissions testing was in progress based on the position of the steering wheel, vehicle speed, the duration of the engine's operation and barometric pressure. Once the software picked up on these inputs, it went into a type of "test mode" when the front wheels of the car were on a dynamometer. This allowed emissions controls to run full-tilt during official testing, but emitted 10 to 40 times the legal amount while on the road.

The allegations were made by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on Sept. 18..."

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/22/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-volkswagen-scandal.html

How would barometric pressure figure into it? As a proxy for altitude? If that reading is very sensitive, perhaps the fact that the pressure was absolutely unvarying in emissions testing mode could have helped trigger the emissions controls.

 

[wwhitney]

How would barometric pressure figure into it? As a proxy for altitude?

Maybe the sensors are located in places that could function like an aircraft's airspeed indicator, allowing the car's software to deduce that the airspeed is zero?

Cheers, Wane