2011 48k miles - car won't charge

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So in the next episode of Nissan LEAF soap opera: Day's of our Electric lives:

Today was full of people's egos and people not talking to each other or owning up to the real problems.

Dealership: claims that Nissan Corporate has the official stance that is nothing is wrong. They ran another diagnostic by Nissan techs and apparently no issue was detected - they still claim it's the EVSE's fault despite no other charger worksing anywhere. Tomorrow my wife and I are going to force them to test the Level 1 (remember the car reports a normal charge not a trickle charge - they didn't want to test it) and get the OBC report and take them to a public EVSE and watch it fault.

Nissan LEAF Specialist - these people where the worst today. They REFUSED to accept the diagnosed report from Aerovironment on our unit even though that is what they requested!!!! In fact they went on a tirade of how if you don't use an official Nissan Leaf EVSE it may not work and blah blah (wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of public charging???). Worse off - my unit IS an official EVSE with wireless connectivity. The specialist in a bout of egotism said "I am Nissan USA" when he told me that NRG (eVgo) never was a partner with Nissan (wrong, they are), and AV never made a wireless unit so their wireless test was a lie (incorrect AV makes a wireless unit for eVgo). So it appears that your LEAF "specialist" knows less than you do about your car....just wow. They still won't admit there is a problem, and they are still ignoring the Level 1 issue.

Aerovironment - Ahhh the knight in shiny armor. These people were the absolute most helpful today and so awesome. They promptly called my Leaf specialist to inform them that NRG was a partner and they do, in fact, make wireless units (similar to Blink's). He worked out an agreement with the LEAF specialist on what would be satisfactory to prove their unit wasn't a problem, in addition he called the dealership to inform them what was going on. Wow, such service. With 2 hours on the phone of people telling us we are wrong and we aren't going to do anything about it, this was such a relief to have someone actually work with us to get a solution. This is saying a lot since the problem most likely has nothing to do with my EVSE.

So tomorrow's on-goings: AV is going to work to send out a tech to our house ASAP (he couldn't guarantee tomorrow because of the holidays, but it was nice he committed) to actually replace my current unit (this charges the Volt fine, FYI and has already been cleared by AV to be a good working unit). At that point we will then try and charge my Leaf and see if it faults out again. In addition, we are going to follow up with the Dealership and hopefully try a level 1, a public level 2, and even CHAdeMO (it's supposed to bypass the OBC, so lets see what happens). Also, I called Tristan Nissan to see if my dealership would listen to them about Greg's problem. The guy was out, but hopefully we can talk to the head service guy tomorrow.

Whew - its been a long evening. What has been vexing more than anything is Nissan's refusal to recognize the other problems (Level 1 charging to fast, every other EVSE won't work so my one unit won't work, etc.). They are not even acknowledging anything of those problems and are pinning it on something that is not the problem. Their refusal to work with us at all is so frustrating. Thank goodness for the AV guy otherwise I might go ballistic. And for ANY Corporate Nissan person that sees this post - YOU NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB WORKING WITH YOUR CUSTOMERS. I am an early adopter. Those like me that love the car and the tech you are COMPLETELY ostracizing me. And I am a fanboy, this won't work if you had regular Joe Smith with this problem.

If this is an OBC problem (like everyone BUT Nissan thinks it is), it should be under the 60k warranty. The dealership keeps hinting it might not be, despite the fact the warrant clearly states anything under the electrical system is under the warranty (which should include the OBC). If they try and charge me for this with what they have put me through the wrath they will feel will not be pretty. I am already pretty pissed atm.
 
You might drop this guy a quick note, and a copy of your last post.

[email protected]

He is a senior manager in corporate communications at Nissan, based in Franklin, Tenn.
(where they build Leafs now)

He is a pretty good guy, and maybe can cut through some of this.

You might point him to this thread, and mention that the thread has been read over 3100 times so far.
 
Ugh. What a cluster. :?

Quick charge should work since it bypasses the OBC...

Here's the relevant monitoring page from the service manual.... Hopefully they can see that the line voltage is seriously off...
obc.png
 
Pipcecil said:
Nissan LEAF Specialist - these people where the worst today. They REFUSED to accept the diagnosed report from Aerovironment on our unit even though that is what they requested!!!! alk to the head service guy tomorrow.
You are a lot more patient than I am. At this point I would be telling them I am going to take the story to Insideevs.com and the local media if they don't take this problem seriously and fix it. It is absolutely shameful they way they are treating you... plus we already know they are wrong!!!
 
JeremyW said:
Ugh. What a cluster. :?

Quick charge should work since it bypasses the OBC...

Here's the relevant monitoring page from the service manual.... Hopefully they can see that the line voltage is seriously off...

The worst part of this the report came out showing 297 volts off my 240, but despite that reading they say its the EVSE is causing the over voltage. And, if I understand correctly, besides slight variations in the voltage, the EVSE can not charge more than the voltage its hooked up to.
 
This type of situation really worries me. I know NOTHING about volts or amps or watts or how they are all related or the interaction between the car and the EVSE. What happens to people like me when our cars do this same sort of thing?? How can we even begin to battle this sort of issue with Nissan when we aren't electrical engineers or other types of people with this sort of in depth knowledge about electricity or electical systems??

This car was "built for the masses", so it is seriously disconcerting that Nissan pulls this kind of crap over things the general public may not understand. Really frightening.
 
There is also a SERIOUS SERIOUS SAFETY CONCERN that the on board charger will draw more amperage than normal on 120V in this *broken* state. GregH has noticed this with his own leaf:

Oh and the L1 charging at 120V (err, seen as 173V L2) actually charges at nearly 24 Gids/hour (!!!) That's better than half what it does at 240V normal L2. The cord gets warm but the plug looks ok and its on a 20A breaker. I guess it'll do until I can get the OBC replaced and use my L2 EVSE again. Really surprised the OBC doesn't read line current.. or at least doesn't have a software feedback control loop for it. Shocking :eek:
From what we can tell, the leaf thinks the line voltage is "L2 capable" and draws 16+ amps as in a normal L2 condition. The on board charger doesn't seem to have any way to measure AC line current, only power out.

So, yeah, Nissan needs to step the F up and deal with this. Seriously.
 
Pipcecil said:
The worst part of this the report came out showing 297 volts off my 240, but despite that reading they say its the EVSE is causing the over voltage. And, if I understand correctly, besides slight variations in the voltage, the EVSE can not charge more than the voltage its hooked up to.
You are absolutely right. There is nothing the EVSE can do to increase voltage; NOTHING. The guys you are talking to are idiots.

There are lots of Nissan dealers around Dallas/Ft. Worth. There is no way I would have stayed with the imbeciles you are dealing with. (And please tell us who it is, so they can become infamous on this board.)

Ray
 
Pipcecil said:
if I understand correctly, besides slight variations in the voltage, the EVSE can not charge more than the voltage its hooked up to.

The EVSE simply has a contactor/relay that connects the 240 VAC to the car after the handshake. So you are right, there is NOTHING an EVSE can do to cause high voltage.
 
The dealership is don davis nissan. Despite the dealership not fighting/standing up for me, Nissan corporate is making the calls and sticking with the "its the EVSE." The dealership isn't not authorized to do more work on the car, per corporate. The Nissan Leaf service line says the same thing and is still claiming the EVSE is the issue, ignoring every other fact we throw at them. Now I will say my service rep I have at Don Davis is not my normal one and he seems less inclined to stand up or help and his leaf knowledge is way lower than the other reps I have worked with. But, if he is being blocked by Nissan corporate, there is only so much to do.

I am soon to be on my way to the dealership to force them to look at the Level 1 overcharging. Maybe this will change their minds...
 
My wife is going through Facebook as someone suggested. We were contacted and here is our respond back. It gives a good compact identification of all the issues:

Good morning. Thank you for taking the time to review this.

Requested information:
VIN: [Redacted]
Service retailer: Don Davis Nissan in Arlington, TX
Best contact numbers: [Redacted] or [Redacted]

Short summary: The car is overcharging. The dealership doesn't believe us and both the dealership and the representative at Nissan Leaf Customer Support have incorrectly blamed our EVSE as the cause of the issue. No one is helping us get to the root of our issue, no one will fix our vehicle. Due to unrelated battery degradation, my husband cannot get the car to work and back without level 2 charging at work, rendering the car essentially useless for now. We would like for our issue to be acknowledged, we would like a complimentary rental car (preferably a Leaf), and we would like this issue repaired, per our warranty.

Long story:
- Friday, December 20th, our 2011 Leaf would not charge on the level 2 charger at our home. We plugged it in, it acknowledged being plugged in (beeped), began charging, and immediately ceased charging, as if the car had completed charging.
- For the Leaf, we have an eVGO/NRG/AV EVSE. Trying to troubleshoot, we tried testing charging on our other unit, a Voltec (level 2) used for my Chevy Volt. We had the same results. Note: the AV/eVGO unit and the Voltec unit work with my Chevy Volt just fine.
- Having not been able to charge the car (and with only 5 or so miles left on the charge), we had Nissan Roadside Assistance tow the Leaf to Don Davis Nissan in Arlington, TX.
- They were able to charge the car on their dealership Level 2 AV units, so they cleared the error, fully charged the car, and we picked it up.
- Upon returning home, we attempted to charge our Leaf on our level 2 with the same results as the previous Friday. We were aghast. The car won't charge on Level 2.
- We returned the car to the dealership where they finally tested it. The information readouts showed a reading of 297 volts when the onboard charging unit of the Leaf faulted. According to Tim McGuire at Don Davis and Paul Smith at Nissan Leaf Customer Support, this was caused by our in house EVSE.
- This is not possible. The EVSEs are "dumb" units in that sense - the car should be regulating the incoming voltage, not the charging unit. No one will believe this, no one will work on the car, rather blaming our EVSE.
- Aeroenvironment has been the only organization who has been helpful and it isn't even their fault. They tested the EVSE unit remotely and have determined that it is in working order, with no errors/issues.
- Paul and Tim have stated since they believe it's the EVSE's fault, no one will consent to repairs on the car (since none are technically identified, except for the overcharging which no one will believe is a problem).
- AV has agreed to come to our home and replace the EVSE at Nissan's request, however with the holidays, it has been difficult to get someone out to our home. This is unnecessary and wasteful, however AV is willing to help us where no one else will.
- In the meantime, my husband has to get to work on a car that won't charge. I'm not sure what we're going to do...
- The vehicle is also overcharging on the level 1/trickle charge as well, however no one is acknowledging this as an issue. Charging on level 1 at home is the only way for us to charge the car, however the dealership is refusing to test the level 1's readings.
- The vehicle is treating the level 1 charge as a "regular" level 2 charger. As a result, it's practically burning our level 1 charging unit.. Carwings also denotes this level 1 charging as "normal" charging instead of "trickle". I hope you can see why this is such an issue and possible safety issue.
- Meanwhile, the folks at NRG and AV are very concerned that Nissan is blaming the EVSE for these issues. Nissan (Paul) has gone so far as to state there has never been a relationship between NRG/eVGO and Nissan, stating our charger may not be an "officially sanctioned" charger, which is completely untrue.
- Additionally, we have a thread on the My Nissan Leaf forum which, as of last night, has had over 3100 views regarding this issue. Many are following the issue and many are very concerned at the lack of response/help from Nissan. This is the #1 viewed topic right now.
- There has been a very similar issue with a Leaf in California, at a Tustin Nissan in Tustin, CA with a customer named Greg H. I have left a message with this dealership's shop manager Rick(y) Enriquez to see if he will be able to help me in a consulting capacity since they were able to see this error in action. However, as far as we can tell, Greg's vehicle may not be repaired yet.
- Also worth noting, Tim at Don Davis keeps stating this may not be covered under warranty even though they haven't officially acknowledged an issue. I believe there's documentation in the official service manual which states EVSEs cannot pull more than the required voltage. I fail to see why anyone is believing why the issue is with the car when it's physically impossible to be the EVSEs fault.
- We are early adopters. We have been staunch EV and Leaf supporters since before we even owned our car. Please afford us the same respect we have afforded you. Please honor our warranty, please fix our car.


I would appreciate a prompt response and prompt action. I understand many people are on vacation due to the holidays, however we're left without our primary vehicle and on Friday, will have been without it for 2 weeks.

We are headed to the dealership this morning to see if they will show them the issues with the Level 1 charging, however they have turned us away once with this issue and we doubt they'll see us again.

Thank you,
Lori D.
 
In an odd way, this fiasco reminds me of the Shawshank Redemption, where Andy Dufresne is trying to communicate to the warden about a confession from another inmate that will prove he is innocent. The warden refuses to acknowledge any of this information, since he has no plans to release Andy. After failing to convince the warden of the simple truth, Andy says in frustration "How can you be so obtuse!" The warden puts him in solitary confinement for a month. :twisted:
 
Pipcecil's wife here. I thought I'd show you Nissan's (non) response to my Facebook note regarding our Leafshank Redemption saga:

We want to help in anyway we can. Please follow up with us after your visit to the dealership, in order for us to document your comments for the Specialist to review. He is scheduled to follow up with you by close of business today. Please continue to work closely with him, as he is in the best position to assist further.

Best Wishes,
Emily, Nissan Social Support

So...not much going on there. We're currently at the dealership. We're hoping they'll test the level 1 charging but since they've refused in the past, we aren't optimistic.
 
Hi Pip and Fal:

I'm checking to see if this can be elevated further beyond the groups that have been handling so far. Sorry for the trouble you're having. I fear that with the holiday, there might be a little bit of a delay on the corporate end, which I know is frustrating. I will do the best I can.

I'm sure our folks can ID what they need from this thread, but can you email or PM me your email address and a phone number just in case?

Thank you,

Brian
 
Update from the dealership. It looks like we finally convinced them that its not our EVSE and its most likely the OBC. Unfortunately, Nissan Corporate will not authorize the dealership to do anymore work on my car, including any additional testing to prove that the OBC is the problem, still maintaining my home EVSE is still the only problem and the car is perfectly fine.

Here is a link to the computer report showing the over voltage computed by the OBC Pipcecil OBC report

Finally since the dealership cannot run any test, we did some ourselves. One was a video of me plugging into a public EVSE and the car faulting out (proving that its not just my home EVSE). The second video is me plugging in my level 1 at home and refreshing Carwings to show the car handling the level 1 as a "normal" or level 2 charge.

As far as I know the issue hasn't been elevated beyond standard leaf support (the leaf hotline) and the standard tech the dealerships contact with leaf problems. We do realize it is the holidays so not everyone is around to tackle a very difficult problem.

Since the dealership cannot do any more work on my car, we have gotten it back. There are two issues now with this:

1) The level 1 charger is charging extremely fast (the car thinks its a level 2) and it appears its trying to pull the full 16 amps from the unit to charge - this has resulted in the unit getting hotter than normal and after some use to have a smell of "electrical burning." But I will have to use the unit daily to recharge my vehicle to get to work. This, to my wife and I, could be a major safety concern. We'd hate for something to catch fire as a result.

2) I work 55 miles round trip from home, and with my battery degradation (down three+ capacity bars), I cannot make it to and from work without charging in between. My work has two public EVSEs, but since the car cannot use these units, I will have to QC every day to make it back home and the possible additional damage to the battery QCing daily (and sometimes to 100%) worries me.

I will PM you with my personal contact information and links to the videos I've mentioned. We appreciate your attention.
 
Get a clamp-on ammeter and measure the L1. My L1 does fine at 16a 240v (evseupgrade.com) so I am thinking you might be over 16a if it gets super hot.
What is the breaker rating of your L1 circuit?
 
Pipcecil said:
... 1) The level 1 charger is charging extremely fast (the car thinks its a level 2) and it appears its trying to pull the full 16 amps from the unit to charge - this has resulted in the unit getting hotter than normal and after some use to have a smell of "electrical burning." But I will have to use the unit daily to recharge my vehicle to get to work. This, to my wife and I, could be a major safety concern. We'd hate for something to catch fire as a result. ...
It could be worse than that. No matter how badly you need to use the car, I wouldn't use this setup until and unless I had determined for sure that it was not creating a safety hazard.
 
I just keep coming back to the lack of basic understanding on the part of Nissan Service.
I, like many on here, Know how this equipment works.
The EVSE is a glorified light switch.
I've built them.
Not Brain Surgery.
Seriously!

Can your light switch change the voltage on your circuits?
Ridiculous!

The OBC is reporting incorrect voltages.
End of story.
Needs to be changed.

Constantly saying its an EVSE problem is just Moronic.
 
Falonsade said:
Pipcecil's wife here. I thought I'd show you Nissan's (non) response to my Facebook note regarding our Leafshank Redemption saga:

We want to help in anyway we can. Please follow up with us after your visit to the dealership, in order for us to document your comments for the Specialist to review. He is scheduled to follow up with you by close of business today. Please continue to work closely with him, as he is in the best position to assist further.

Best Wishes,
Emily, Nissan Social Support

So...not much going on there. We're currently at the dealership. We're hoping they'll test the level 1 charging but since they've refused in the past, we aren't optimistic.

The Facebook contact should get the gears rolling at Nissan HQ ... you've gone outside the normal chain-of-command and this gets a lot more attention. Unfortunately, as this is the holiday period response will likely be delayed. (I'm the one who recommended you do that and also the one who responded to your Facebook post.)

Thanks for pushing this as hard as you two have. I have to hope that I would not have gotten the same runaround from our local dealer.
 
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