2016 Leaf Green Ignition Relay

[Mrouk]

Relay pullers were too big to help. Even using electrical ‘keys’ that I had to push the releases out didn’t help as you can’t get a grip on the relay without some pliers!!

So I’d be interested to know how to remove these easily!!!

 

[GreenaGiant]

So the pain isn't over.

Car is still being a pain and refusing to work properly. Mainly turning off is impossible without removing the ignition relay then pressing the power button.

Getting the car into ready mode is also about 1:100 luck. So I think there's a deeper problem. I've just tested the ignition relay and it is completely fine.

I've done a LeafSpy read of the Dates, if anyone can point me in the right direction to a diagnosis I'd be eternally grateful.

Screenshot of LeafSpy:

 

[nlspace]

Yeah the 12V battery was knackered. I have replaced that now along with the relay but still have those issues.

Do you have a voltmeter that you could measure and report the 12V battery open circuit voltage,

and the voltage while in accessory mode ON but not started,

and in Drive mode started and ON?

 

[Mrouk]

So the pain isn't over.

Car is still being a pain and refusing to work properly. Mainly turning off is impossible without removing the ignition relay then pressing the power button.

Getting the car into ready mode is also about 1:100 luck. So I think there's a deeper problem. I've just tested the ignition relay and it is completely fine.

I've done a LeafSpy read of the Dates, if anyone can point me in the right direction to a diagnosis I'd be eternally grateful.

Screenshot of LeafSpy at this link. (I'm on my phone but next time I'm on the PC I'll edit to an image link)
https://prnt.sc/zhig2o

These are the same error codes I was getting. I haven’t really driven the car anywhere far since I changed the relay so maybe my issues will come back!?!

Did you fully charge the battery? Are the contacts clean/tight? Do you have a battery tender? Is there any sign of water in the gutters or in the dash? (My gutters were blocked with leaves). Is there any sign of corrosion or damage to the loom anywhere? Where are you - Is it really cold at the moment? (Some post I read said they thought it was linked to cold days). Or have you had aftermarket lights added?

Leaf spy should tell you the aux battery voltage in the bottom left corner?

Is it worth ordering the exact relay incase there is a difference in voltage required to switch or something?

 

[GreenaGiant]

The relay I gave a good test and it was fine right down to write a low voltage. I forget the exact number but it was around 6V. So I'm happy the ignition relay replacement is fine.

The battery is brand new, 53Ah and has been tested too. I'm very familiar with electronics, albeit not on a car, so confident in that. Something is draining the battery though when the car is off as I'm having to manually charge it once a week. Last time it was down to 7V. I thought it was the old ignition relay latching in, causing the high discharge. Maybe it was but clearly there's something else at play too.

It is cold here, Leicestershire. Hovering around 0degC. No water on the dash but it lives outside. I'll check the gutters tomorrow but I don't recall seeing an obvious blockage or pool of water today. I didn't look hard though.

Nothing aftermarket, all stock Nissan leaf 2016 Tekna.

Which loom should I be looking at for corrosion? A bit of searching around the Web says a culprit might be the BCM, which is somewhere behind the glove box. Not sure exactly where or how accessible it is.

My gut is saying a module, maybe the BCM, is faulty, maybe due to water damage. This causing the problems and the high 12V drain. It's a guess though.

I'm well out of warranty I think (2016) so resisting the obvious but expensive solution of taking it to the Nissan garage until I know I have to, or admit defeat!

Aside; really irritated by the 12V system on this car. Apart from that I love this Leaf. The 12V system is just prehistoric

 

[MikeinPA]

The relay I gave a good test and it was fine right down to write a low voltage. I forget the exact number but it was around 6V. So I'm happy the ignition relay replacement is fine.

It is possible the electronics (modules) need to be working with a relay which has whatever the H91 stands for. We don't know if the H91 code is for the amount of current the the relay is pulling while closed or during inrush or something else. There is a resistor in some of these relays which is probably intended to slow inrush.

 

[GreenaGiant]

The relay I gave a good test and it was fine right down to write a low voltage. I forget the exact number but it was around 6V. So I'm happy the ignition relay replacement is fine.

It is possible the electronics (modules) need to be working with a relay which has whatever the H91 stands for. We don't know if the H91 code is for the amount of current the the relay is pulling while closed or during inrush or something else. There is a resistor in some of these relays which is probably intended to slow inrush.

Interesting that they would monitor that.

The aftermarket one I have installed is pulling just under 10mA when closed, for reference, in case anyone is able to measure the OEM one and compare

Another big thank you to everyone helping me and others out in this thread

 

[Mrouk]

10mA and it is noted as an M10, so maybe the original is 91mA...?

I ordered 2 from Aliexpress but my order hasn’t been shipped yet, so I’m wondering if they have any. If you buy one, try ordering the other one to me.

 

[nlspace]

If you have a meter then it's an easy task to measure the coil resistance to compare OEM vs the replacement. If they were significantly different then it might be important to consider.

Of course it would be easy to actually measure the 12V aux battery voltage instead of assuming that it is not an issue. So many folks on the tesla, mitsubishi and laef forums have chased issues only to find that a weak or worn aux battery was the cause of the CAN buss and other DTCs. Until that cause is definitely ruled out, it is a prime suspect, especially when a battery was found standing with only 7V...?

 

[GreenaGiant]

The battery is definitely good. I put it on my battery tester for two cycles and got the rated 53Ah and that was when it was brand new last month. So, I am pretty convinced something is drawing power when it shouldn't be, when the car is "off", causing the battery to deep discharge. That low voltage could absolutely be causing the DTCs I am seeing as you suggest but I think I need to find the reason for the unusually high power draw when off rather than chasing the DTCs, now I think about it.

 

[nlspace]

To troubleshoot possible 7A draw by the BCM: monitor the battery current then one-at-a-time pull the 3 fuses (2 10A, 1 40A) that supply always-on power to the Body Control Module to see when the current falls.

 

[GreenaGiant]

To troubleshoot possible 7A draw by the BCM: monitor the battery current then one-at-a-time pull the 3 fuses (2 10A, 1 40A) that supply always-on power to the Body Control Module to see when the current falls.

Good idea, ty. I shall give that a go when (if!) the rain stops. I have some kit to measure current etc. Cheers

 

[GreenaGiant]

So the current draw isn't up in the 7A region.

There is a relay clicking on and off constantly but I can't access that relay. Pulling the 20A VCM fuse stops the relay clicking but obviously that's not a fix nor a diagnosis.

Could it be that a CAN bus is down and something is trying to reboot a module (possibly the VCM) without success in a repeated loop?

Video here:
[youtube]https://youtu.be/MUHj52CoYdM[/youtube]

 

[nlspace]

Try cycling the power switch to make sure it is OFF and not in accessory mode, then check that the switch for the charge port lid opener is not stuck, maybe press the button and open the lid to see if the clicking stops. The clicking relay is used to switch the power to the motor that opens the lid.

Seems to be related to the VCM control of the charge port lid opener--that is the only function on fuse #3 in the 2015 FSM.

 

[Mrouk]

Just an update.

The black relay seems to have worked for me, no issues since.

And today the aliexpress delivery has turned up.

All looks ok with them. So by the time you pay postage and taxes etc they come in at about £5 each. So not too bad.

I will swap out the black one if I get problems.

Reading the comment above about the charging port door, someone crashed in to mine a while back and I can’t actually properly close the port door. So maybe that was linked to mine. I’m not going to press the lock button to find out though!!!

 

[matchett808]

<tried to delete this, but can't see a button>

 

[matchett808]

GreenaGiant - did you get a resolution to this?

GreenaGiant did you solve your issue? It seems to be the exact same as my issue - nissan diagnosed a 0.37A draw, recommended and IPDM change (for £900!!) I did it myself but still have the same issue (relay clicking from inside the IPDM) alongside a couple of miscellaneous things like my DRL being dim etc

Excerpt from the nissan report:

found parasitic drain of .37A
traced clicking noise to ipdm clicking on and off
found pin 35 (vcm) getting 12v feed
checked for water ingress no signs found
checked for earth at pin 41 and found no earth
relay still clicking
expect internal fault with ipdm - requires replacement, further charge and test

I make an assumption here that no earth at pin 41 is a good thing (based on the report)

(I'll double check if the fuse pull works for me, but my car is currently dead - not even clicking so I'll need to boost it and deal with it at the weekend) - I expect this fuse pull will work for me as everything else was identical (I also had i-key system faults etc, have since swapped the 12v) - have you checked the fuses inside the cabin btw? That's on my list to check as well

 

[LeftieBiker]

I approved both posts because the second one has more content. If it's ok with you, can I delete the first one?

 

[matchett808]

Ah, sorry - re-posted in a moment of madness while waiting approval lol, I'll fix em up when I'm at my PC 2m

 

[GreenaGiant]

Unfortunately no, as it stands. I am in a vicious cycle of banging my head against the wall, sticking rusty forks in my face and shouting expletives under the bonnet.

Joking aside, what I have so far:
1. Clicking of a relay coming from inside the actual ipdm (as you describe)
2. Periodic clicking and buzzing (roughly 1Hz) of the ignition relay when the car is off
3. 12V battery lasts 5-7 days, from full, before it is too flat to operate the car (locks, ignition, alarm, etc)

What I have done so far:
1. Replaced the ignition relay twice, this is fine, I can turn the car on and off. But something is triggering it with a very dodgy (bouncy) signal, cyclically, when it shouldn't.
2. 12V battery is alwatys on trickle charge from an external charger, so at least it is usable when I need the car or to do work on it.
3. Pulling one of the yellow fuses (see earlier post) stops the relay clicking within the ipdm, but I have stopped bothering with this now, I am defeated.
4. I pull the ignition relay once parked at home, as this sounds horrific when it buzzes and is clearly killing it slowly. I am just wanting to avoid buying another.

The car is usable (debatably, but works absolutely fine when ON and 12V is charged enough).

At the moment I don't have the money (nor impetus given the pandemic) to take it to a garage. Plus, I'd rather have a more firm diagnosis before I take it anywhere, which I eventually will have to I think, as I think I perhaps care more than the garage will.

I have done a couple of longer trips (and have another today) from Leicestershire to Nottingham and back and the car is appears fine to drive. I only get issues when it is off, which makes me twitch when I have to park up and leave it for an hour or two away from home.

GreenaGiant - did you get a resolution to this?

GreenaGiant did you solve your issue? It seems to be the exact same as my issue - nissan diagnosed a 0.37A draw, recommended and IPDM change (for £900!!) I did it myself but still have the same issue (relay clicking from inside the IPDM) alongside a couple of miscellaneous things like my DRL being dim etc

Excerpt from the nissan report:

found parasitic drain of .37A
traced clicking noise to ipdm clicking on and off
found pin 35 (vcm) getting 12v feed
checked for water ingress no signs found
checked for earth at pin 41 and found no earth
relay still clicking
expect internal fault with ipdm - requires replacement, further charge and test

I make an assumption here that no earth at pin 41 is a good thing (based on the report)

(I'll double check if the fuse pull works for me, but my car is currently dead - not even clicking so I'll need to boost it and deal with it at the weekend) - I expect this fuse pull will work for me as everything else was identical (I also had i-key system faults etc, have since swapped the 12v) - have you checked the fuses inside the cabin btw? That's on my list to check as well