2023 Nissan EV Sales

[SageBrush]

https://insideevs.com/news/703114/nissan-us-bev-sales-2023q4/
A drip of good news for Nissan: Ariya is selling more than a year ago
The larger picture: Total NIssan EV sales in the US are under 20k in 2023. In a world (and in the US, albeit behind the curve) where EV sales are measured in millions and growth is rapid, Nissan is not even worth counting. They have a LONG way to go, presuming Nissan can rehab its miserable corporate and dealership reputations.

The LEAF angle is that sales are low and dropping fast. Now about 450 a month in the USA

 

[SteveDK]

Reportedly, Nissan UK is pausing manufacturing the Leaf now, but will be retooling for a new generation to come out when the factory is ready. The same Sunderland plant will be making electric Juke and Qashqai (US name Rogue) SUVs there. It is about time for a refresh of the model. (I do love my 2023 Leaf SV Plus, nicknamed the Rocinante). Hope Nissan won't make the next Leaf Generation too touchpad dependent, like too many EVs (Teslas and Volvo EX-30, for example). One of the great things about the Gen 2 Leafs is there are buttons for climate control, a speed dial and a simple display right in front of the driver for other data, etc.

 

[Dooglas]

Nissan is not even worth counting. They have a LONG way to go, presuming Nissan can rehab its miserable corporate and dealership reputations.

Of course, recent EV success stories in the US are a short list. Ford, GM, and VW really have nothing to brag about - and Tesla's recent success appears to primarily be linked to drastic price reductions.

 

[SageBrush]

Of course, recent EV success stories in the US are a short list. Ford, GM, and VW really have nothing to brag about - and Tesla's recent success appears to primarily be linked to drastic price reductions.

Woe is Tesla. NOT
As for the others mentioned, Nissan would give a lot to have either Ford or VW EV sales. Heck, they cannot even compete with the Bolt

From the Tesla Q4/2023 Shareholder deck available at ir.tesla.com

 

[Stanton]

What a difference 10 years makes...when Nissan was THE leader in EV sales. They squandered a fantastic technology lead championed by Ghosn.

 

[SageBrush]

What a difference 10 years makes...when Nissan was THE leader in EV sales. They squandered a fantastic technology lead championed by Ghosn.

Ghosn championed a luxury NEV (for a NEV, anyway)
13 years later a mediocre, also-ran somewhat general purpose EV was born (the Ariya)

The decision to stay with ambient conductive pack cooling relegated the LEAF to the sideline, even as they increased pack capacity because it precluded competitive fast charging. Was that also Ghosn, or was he in a piano case being smuggled to Lebanon to escape punishment for embezzlement by then ?

Ghosn the criminal aside, I've never got the impression that anybody at Nissan ever wanted to update the LEAF to active pack cooling. Fatal mistake, that has swept them into the dustbin of EV history. The less glorious view of Nissan is that they were first out the gate with dead-end (but relatively cheap) tech that tapped into the very earliest adopters ... and they went no further.

 

[Dooglas]

Woe is Tesla. NOT
As for the others mentioned, Nissan would give a lot to have either Ford or VW EV sales. Heck, they cannot even compete with the Bolt

The Bolt is an excellent value for those who are comfortable with its ergonomics. I was looking hard at one when I came across such a good buy on my current LEAF. I just can't see paying $60K for an EV (or any kind of V). I've owned 3 EVs and never paided more than $20K (all new or very near new). I've been satisfied with the value for the money.

 

[SageBrush]

The Bolt is an excellent value for those who are comfortable with its ergonomics

And its 45-ish kW DC charging. And its sub-compact size. And its tin-cannish manufacture. My wife loves our Bolt so I recognize its value and place in the marketplace. I also know that it has very limited US market appeal.

The Tesla Model Y is approaching IIRC one million sales a year in the US. The Bolt is around 20k annually. So recognize that your preferences are a poor reflection of the US market

 

[marshallinwash]

Well Nissan just lowered the price of the 2024 Ariya so that should help sales.

 

[BillAinCT]

Ghosn the criminal aside, I've never got the impression that anybody at Nissan ever wanted to update the LEAF to active pack cooling.

Which makes no sense on Gen 2 since coolant lines run to the charger. Wouldn't a quick T (or loop) from the charger into the nearby battery been a pretty simple change? Running zig zag copper through the top of the cells with thin fins along it would have made a big difference I'm guessing.

 

[SageBrush]

Which makes no sense on Gen 2 since coolant lines run to the charger. Wouldn't a quick T (or loop) from the charger into the nearby battery been a pretty simple change? Running zig zag copper through the top of the cells with thin fins along it would have made a big difference I'm guessing.

That is way beyond my pay grade, but I can tell you that the Bolt has active liquid cooling and it is inadequate enough that DC fast charging is limited to 45-ish kW. So maybe/probably not so simple

 

[WetEV]

Sage is correct.

The charger is cooled to ambient, and the temperature rise can be substantial. Die temperatures of 70C are common. The battery pack would need active cooling to improve on the passive design as needs to be cooled far more.

Sage's hate of all things Nissan gets old. As does his love of all things Tesla and Elon Musk.

 

[Boojiec]

What a difference 10 years makes...when Nissan was THE leader in EV sales. They squandered a fantastic technology lead championed by Ghosn.

They also did a lousy job marketing the LEAF. Because of its limited range It should have been marketed as “your family’s fun, economical, second car”, or “ your commuter car” . Not being realistic about its limitations shot themselves in the foot.

 

[Banger]

They also did a lousy job marketing the LEAF. Because of its limited range It should have been marketed as “your family’s fun, economical, second car”, or “ your commuter car” . Not being realistic about its limitations shot themselves in the foot.

Agree and yet, disagree.

I remember Nissan making a lot of noise about just how many miles the average person drives per day in America. I think the figure they arrived at was something like 29 miles -- which, they pointed out, was well within the battery range of the first LEAF.

 

[cornbinder89]

Agree and yet, disagree.

I remember Nissan making a lot of noise about just how many miles the average person drives per day in America. I think the figure they arrived at was something like 29 miles -- which, they pointed out, was well within the battery range of the first LEAF.

When talking to non EV owners they all seam to have no idea how many miles they drive in a day and "require" a vehicle that can make a cross country trip at any second!
I clocked (logged) my miles and know that even a dergraded 24Kwh pack will do 98% or better of my trips. That is a hard sell to someone who hasn't taken the time to realistically assess their needs.

 

[Drew21]

A few years ago my mom was in need of an updated vehicle. She started shopping for full-size SUVs. When questioned, her justification was that she might need to haul herself + my dad + three kids + three grandkids = eight passengers = full-size SUV. (I'm not sure what happened to the three spouses in this equation, but...)

My wife and I unfortunately live 1250 miles away from my parents. My sister, her husband, and two of the grandkids live 850 miles from my parents. My brother, his wife, and the final grandkid live 400 miles from my parents.

Most folks are not good at evaluating their true vehicle needs. If they were, the Ford F-150 would not be the best-selling vehicle in the US for the entirety of my life. My retired parents now have a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid that gets 40 mpg on the highway plus an 275k-mile 1995 Chevy truck for around the farm.

 

[cornbinder89]

A few years ago my mom was in need of an updated vehicle. She started shopping for full-size SUVs. When questioned, her justification was that she might need to haul herself + my dad + three kids + three grandkids = eight passengers = full-size SUV. (I'm not sure what happened to the three spouses in this equation, but...)

My wife and I unfortunately live 1250 miles away from my parents. My sister, her husband, and two of the grandkids live 850 miles from my parents. My brother, his wife, and the final grandkid live 400 miles from my parents.

Most folks are not good at evaluating their true vehicle needs. If they were, the Ford F-150 would not be the best-selling vehicle in the US for the entirety of my life. My retired parents now have a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid that gets 40 mpg on the highway plus an 275k-mile 1995 Chevy truck for around the farm.

I think most, start out with what they want, then work backwards to justify why it is the "only" choice, they "have" to use that vehicle.
When I was looking at buying a Leaf, my brother made a hard case for a Prius, and I have to admit, it is hard to say the Leaf is a better choice. There were reasons, but the biggest one is I wanted to try one.
If I had gone the use Prius route, I would have a much older vehicle with more miles on it, but it could replace 2 of the vehicles I now own. Yes a used Prius would have made more sense from an economic stand point, but I haven't got too hurt by owning what I want either.

 

[Dooglas]

The Tesla Model Y is approaching IIRC one million sales a year in the US. The Bolt is around 20k annually. So recognize that your preferences are a poor reflection of the US market

"My preferences"? You're inferring this from my explanation about recently purchasing a 62 kwh LEAF? In fairness, my choices in vehicles have never been based on manufacturers annual sales figures. I think I can also safely say that a $46K to $55K Tesla Y was never under serious consideration - even without further discussion of the handling and fit-and-finish issues of the Y as mentioned in a recent Car and Driver review. https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-y

 

[LarryKaplan]

I've had a 2012 SV since 2019, replaced the battery in 2022 and now have 85 miles of range. I can count on both hands the number of times I've needed to charge on the road in 5 years. Of course, I don't do road trips, but was never big into them anyway, and when I have longer distances to go I take the train or fly.

 

[SageBrush]

"My preferences"? You're inferring this from my explanation about recently purchasing a 62 kwh LEAF? In fairness, my choices in vehicles have never been based on manufacturers annual sales figures.

I'm pointing out that the US EV market overwhelmingly does not make your choice, and I'm willing to guess (in part) why: CHAdeMO/LEAF sucks, making the 62 kWh LEAF into a poor trip car. Much the same can be said of the Chevy Bolt, although it at least will have reasonable long term pack degradation. People who own another car for trips might be happy with the LEAF as an extended commuter but then their money savings is more mirage than real because they very rarely calculate the extra opportunity costs of keeping the second car.

Some families "need" two cars, and then the calculations change. These money questions are a huge YMMV but I can count on two thumbs the number of fair accountings I have read. The rest are rationalizations and attempts to defend prior decisions.