2023 Nissan LEAF QC Charger Fault - EV System Error

[kaihripentiki]

(Sorry about image links, they wouldn't inline during preview)
Last friday, i was on a trip to visit some relatives across state and stopped at a quick charger to take on energy.
My 2023 Nissan LEAF SV+ was at 18% SOC (per LEAFSpy) w/ battery at ~14C (~57F). It was approximately -3C outside (Per LEAFSpy) and fairly windy.
I turned off the car, opened the charge door, connected the CHAdeMO connector to the vehicle, initiated charging, and verified that the car was taking on power via LEAFSpy.
Per LEAFSpy, the car had accepted 200Wh, the charger and LEAFSpy both indicated ~37kW charging rate, and still climbing. It had been perhaps 10 seconds.
I pressed the LEAF's power button (as i would normally) so i can run the environmental control to keep the cabin warm. Immediately, the charging stopped, and the screen on the charger indicated a charger fault.
I disconnected the charger, and contacted Shell Recharge/Greenlots. They reset the charger for me. This took approximately 5 minutes.
I then reconnected the charger, and attempted to initiate a charge, however at the point when the charger would normally start delivering power, the charger instead indicated that i needed to plug the charger in to begin.
Perplexed, i unplugged the car again, waited for the charger to indicate ready and made another attempt, with the same results: Plug the charger into the car to begin was displayed on the charger.
I unplugged the car again, and attempted to start the car. I was greeted with a bunch of lights on the days and an EV System Error message, informing me to seek service. (i forget the exact words). In attempting to start the car, i did not hear battery contactors as i was accustomed to, so i knew i was hosed.
I contacted Nissan via the SOS button and had the vehicle towed to my originating dealer.

While waiting for the tow to arrive, i used LEAFSpy to read the DTCs. This was taking quite some time, but later after the car arrived at the dealer, i saw that it had completed.
Here's the LEAFSpy output for DTCs.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3ufHvfBd3jDXW4Sj6

The dealer had the car from Friday until this morning (the next Tuesday). They called me near the end of shift last night (16:00) to tell me they reset the codes and performed diagnostic procedures and the car was now working fine with no identified failures. I picked the car up at opening this morning.

From reading the 2015 manual on nicoclub, my understanding is that P315C indicates that one or both of P31CA or P31CB has been thrown. Procedure for either P31CA or P31CB is to clear the codes, attempt a attempt a quick charge for 10 seconds or more, and then see if the code is thrown again. If the code is throw, clear the code and repeat the process. If the code is thrown again, diagnose PDM and/or VCM and/or wiring. (paraphrased)
The documentation provided by the dealership regarding U1009 indicates this is essentially the same as the procedure indicated for u1008/1008A in the 2015 manual, and essentially the same procedure as above.

So, i expected when i got my car back from the dealership, that it would have +2 QC events logged in the ECU. However, instead i found +3 L1/L2 events.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Hg7RD6wjmFNAc6NT8

My first question then, should i consider LEAFSpy's report of QC and L1/L2 events reliable (i always have before) and assume that this means the dealership didn't actually perform the diagnostic procedure prescribed, and thus did little more than reset the codes and charge my car for me over L2?

My other question involves the notes left by the dealership on the service invoice (which was for $0 under warranty) Emphasis mine:
A - Customer states he was charging vehicle at charging station, and now car will not start, diag
Cause: NODJQX
NODJQX NO DEFECT FOUND
12 W hrs.
FC: 98
PART #: 296B15SA1B
COUNT: 1
CLAIM TYPE: PO
AUTH CODE:
Parts: 0.0 Labor: 0.0 Other: 0.0 Total 0.0
,,5736
,,Confirmed customers concern had 4 codes P315C-71, P31CA-71, P31CB-71, and U1009-96
,,The first code said to diag next two codes first. those codes said to diag the u1009-96. can cause other codes to come on.
,,Performed diag. Used quick charge and did not happen again. Customer note said try to turn on car while on charger.
,,You are not supposed to do that; can cause fail safe mode. Not supposed to be in car when using quick charge station.
,,U1009-06 can also come on. When quick chrager error signal is received from quick charger. When the time out error of quick charger is detected
B - Parked on east side of building
12 ISP hrs.
Parts: 0.0 Labor: 0.0 other: 0.0 total: 0.0

So first, it appears that my dealer thinks an L2 is a quick charge, which is troubling on it's own.
But more importantly, has anyone else ever been told you aren't supposed to attempt to put the car into "ON" mode while on the charger or that you aren't supposed to be in it while it's charging? CH-4 of the owners manual seems to directly contradict this. I asked the tech to provide documentation for this and he said he had none, only that is what they were told during training.

When i dropped my car off, my sales person also dropped another gem on me. "These cars aren't intended for long distance travel, they're really just for running around town." Anyone heard that one either?

 

[GerryAZ]

My experience is that Leaf Spy charge counts are accurate (experience with all three Leafs--2011, 2015, and 2019) as long as you remember that the L1/L2 charge counts increment when the car is plugged in outside of charge timer active time and then again when charging actually starts. Charge count also increments if climate control is activated after charge completion while still plugged in. Therefore, a single L1/L2 charge event could increment the count by 1, 2, or 3 counts (depending upon whether charge timer and climate control are involved). DCQC charge counts have always incremented 1 count for every time I plugged in a DCQC charger even if charge event terminated due to communication errors after a few seconds. I only have 23 DCQC charge counts on the 2019 SL Plus but had a lot more with the older cars and routinely use climate control while DCQC charging without incident. The last time was Sunday evening. I have occasionally had DCQC charger vs. car communication issues set DTC's and been unable to charge without using Leaf Spy to clear those diagnostic trouble codes.

I believe your dealer plugged in L1/L2 a total of 3 times, cleared codes, and determined the car to be OK (no way to know the order of their actions). I suggest that you try to repeat the situation by using a nearby DCQC and turning the car on for climate control after DCQC has been charging for at least a minute or two (to make sure DCQC charge rate has stabilized). You should have your foot on the brake when you press the power button if you want to run climate control while charging. If you get the same dash error message and the car will not go into ready-to-drive mode (after turning the car off and back on), use Leaf Spy Pro to clear DTC's and you should be able to drive. Since I used DCQC on Sunday, I remember I got a message on the dash that the car was plugged in even though climate control worked and charging continued normally--that is what you should see unless there has been a change for 2023.

 

[Learjet]

I haven't had to use the heater...but I used the AC every time I have QC'd.

I think that is BS...what does the dealer expected you to do while you QC ??? Freeze ?

 

[cwerdna]

"Customer note said try to turn on car while on charger.
,,You are not supposed to do that; can cause fail safe mode. Not supposed to be in car when using quick charge station." - Tech's claim is total nonsense.

As you point out (and manual says so too), there's no issue w/powering up Leaf when charging (L1, L2 or DC FC). You won't be able to begin charging unless the car's in OFF though. (Some other non-Nissan EVs don't care about that... but I digress.)

 

[Learjet]

page CH 4 of my owners manual

"The power switch can be set to the ON
position and the climate control and
navigation system (if so equipped) can
be used while the Li-ion battery is
charging."

 

[GerryAZ]

The others have made some good points that I forgot to mention. One other note that is not obvious--climate control (either heat pump compressor or resistance heater) will not activate during L1 or L2 charging unless SOC is above a certain threshold, probably 25% even though the blower fan will run so it may seem like HVAC is on.

Also, the cars (especially the Plus models) are certainly designed for and capable of longer trips. I would not recommend more than one or two DCQC charging sessions per day, especially in warmer temperatures to keep battery temperatures reasonable. That still allows up to 400 to 500 miles per day for a Plus model.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The parameters are more strict than SOC above 40%, though. Last evening, my housemate's SV Plus was charging, and had 44%. I was doing a little button mod inside, and decided that a bit of heat would be nice. Nope, just the fan blowing chilly air.

 

[GerryAZ]

The parameters are more strict than SOC above 40%, though. Last evening, my housemate's SV Plus was charging, and had 44%. I was doing a little button mod inside, and decided that a bit of heat would be nice. Nope, just the fan blowing chilly air.

I thought it was 25% on L1/L2. Did you press the brake pedal when turning the car on? My experience is that the SOC must be above the threshold before turning the car on while charging otherwise only the fan will run. Also, the compressor or resistance heater will not activate unless the brake pedal was depressed when turning the car on (with the SOC above the threshold while charging).

 

[kaihripentiki]

I haven't had to use the heater...but I used the AC every time I have QC'd.

I think that is BS...what does the dealer expected you to do while you QC ??? Freeze ?

Their response was that you aren't even supposed to be in the car while QC'ing. I suspect someone is confused about static electrical discharge risk in ICE vehicles, personally.

 

[kaihripentiki]

I would not recommend more than one or two DCQC charging sessions per day, especially in warmer temperatures to keep battery temperatures reasonable. That still allows up to 400 to 500 miles per day for a Plus model.

What do you consider reasonable temps?

We've made a couple long hauls in the new LEAF, 55mph on the highway for 80-140miles, then QC from between 10 and 25% to between 80 and 90%, repeated 8+ times each way (trip from eastern Iowa to NW Georgia, ~750mi). Total trip duration was just about 24 hours. (Not a great average speed, but you have time to catch some cat naps at the chargers).

I found that with average draw of 20-25kW at 55mph (towing a 4x8 HF utility trailer with a motorcycle and a small generator), the battery actually lost heat between charges (though not nearly as much as it gained) and it wasn't until the very ends that i started seeing a wee bit of charge throttling (down to 42kW @ 60% SoC) but nothing that was unbearable. Charging appears to throttle to keep Internal battery temps below 50 or 55C based on those experiences.

I'd also remark that your mileage estimate is probably good for the 2023 SV+ if ambient temp is over 20C (like 55F). We made our trip with barely sub-freezing ambient temps which likely also helped the battery cool off somewhat faster than normal, but increased consumption somewhat to keep the windows clear.

Another confounding problem is that the in-dash guess-o-meter is off by nearly 12% (on the low side) by the time the vlbw comes on, leaving about 10kWh of useable capacity on the table. If you went by the guess-o-meter, the car actually has about 58kWh through 11kWh in warm temps, and it will only charge to about 55kWh if it's cold outside. Turtle mode comes on at 1.5kWh.

In my region (Central US), the biggest issue with optimizing range with DCQC is that chargers are often between 80 and 125 miles apart. So basically, you have to optimize to merely make the next charger, because you won't necessarily be able to make it to the one after.

 

[kaihripentiki]

Also, the compressor or resistance heater will not activate unless the brake pedal was depressed when turning the car on (with the SOC above the threshold while charging).

At least in the 2023 ( i don't remember how it was on the 2013) you can press the power button twice to get HVAC support. On DCQC, it doesn't seem to matter how low the battery was to enable this, at least in one case down to an indicated (guess-o-meter) 8%.
It also appears the vehicle needs to be either unplugged or the charging contactor needs to be closed (charging active) for both L1/L2 and DCQC. Having the charger plugged in but not charging seems to disable HVAC. (Excepting blower).

 

[LeftieBiker]

The parameters are more strict than SOC above 40%, though. Last evening, my housemate's SV Plus was charging, and had 44%. I was doing a little button mod inside, and decided that a bit of heat would be nice. Nope, just the fan blowing chilly air.

I thought it was 25% on L1/L2. Did you press the brake pedal when turning the car on? My experience is that the SOC must be above the threshold before turning the car on while charging otherwise only the fan will run. Also, the compressor or resistance heater will not activate unless the brake pedal was depressed when turning the car on (with the SOC above the threshold while charging).

Yes, I did press the brake pedal - that's an ingrained habit for me.

 

[GerryAZ]

I think you need to be above 2% SOC (above very low battery warning) for HVAC to activate while charging on DCQC. I rarely try to use it while charging on L2 so will need to experiment. I want to be able to provide guidance in the future without confusion.

Regarding reasonable battery temperature--that is a judgement because sustained high temperatures lead to higher degradation. I am personally used to seeing high battery temperatures and just accept higher degradation than what would be expected in cooler climates. On an occasional long trip, I would not worry about temperatures as long as they stay below the red marks on the temperature gauge in the dash. Your observations match mine--the battery temperature will drop a little while driving on the highway after DCQC with the Plus battery (62 or 60 kWh). Others will argue about these comments.

 

[ReptonAU]

Here is my brain fart and fix for my EV system error msg (Service EV System, No power) on a our 2019 Leaf.
For starters I did not get my SpyLeafLite to work and do not know any of the SOC L1/L2 , DTC, P31CA or P31CB stuff. I use “BB” for the big battery and my approach is purely from a software perspective.
I got my msg out of the blue; driving the evening before, parking, no charging and next morning . . msg. First line support from Nissan “Put it on a truck, tow it for 150 km to us and we will have a look after the weekend.'
I thought to reset, reboot, ctrl-alt-del or whatever one does with any other piece of electronic equipment. Unfortunately that is not an option (however 'clearing the DTC' might be what I was after?). So instead of resetting the software, the only alternative is to put it “back on track”. I believe now that by driving in 'B' and my garage being steeply downhill, that when I switched off, the car (specifically related to the BB) ended up in the wrong 'state'. BB can be ON for discharging (driving) or can be ON for charging. I switched everything off, but I guess that BB stayed ON (for charging) because it was still processing the regenerative breaking. The next morning the software (bug?) interprets the BB ON for charging as . . 'a cable is been connected'. Now that I want to get into gear (D R or B) it is fair enough that I get the msg. So now we are all putting in a charging cable. I only use my 'Granny' cable (230V/50Hz/10A in Australia, L1? L2?), which is wonderfully stupid. Your Chademo gave 'the charger instead indicated that I needed to plug the charger in to begin' message. My Granny however pushed her way through, ignored any handshakes and got the car to charge while in BB ON charging mode. So reality and software-perceived reality are in sync and we are back on track or as they say in Oz “Bob's your uncle”. I have been driving happily ever since (3 weeks).

 

[dhyatt]

(Sorry about image links, they wouldn't inline during preview)
Last friday, i was on a trip to visit some relatives across state and stopped at a quick charger to take on energy.
My 2023 Nissan LEAF SV+ was at 18% SOC (per LEAFSpy) w/ battery at ~14C (~57F). It was approximately -3C outside (Per LEAFSpy) and fairly windy.
I turned off the car, opened the charge door, connected the CHAdeMO connector to the vehicle, initiated charging, and verified that the car was taking on power via LEAFSpy.
Per LEAFSpy, the car had accepted 200Wh, the charger and LEAFSpy both indicated ~37kW charging rate, and still climbing. It had been perhaps 10 seconds.
I pressed the LEAF's power button (as i would normally) so i can run the environmental control to keep the cabin warm. Immediately, the charging stopped, and the screen on the charger indicated a charger fault.
I disconnected the charger, and contacted Shell Recharge/Greenlots. They reset the charger for me. This took approximately 5 minutes.
I then reconnected the charger, and attempted to initiate a charge, however at the point when the charger would normally start delivering power, the charger instead indicated that i needed to plug the charger in to begin.
Perplexed, i unplugged the car again, waited for the charger to indicate ready and made another attempt, with the same results: Plug the charger into the car to begin was displayed on the charger.
I unplugged the car again, and attempted to start the car. I was greeted with a bunch of lights on the days and an EV System Error message, informing me to seek service. (i forget the exact words). In attempting to start the car, i did not hear battery contactors as i was accustomed to, so i knew i was hosed.
I contacted Nissan via the SOS button and had the vehicle towed to my originating dealer.

While waiting for the tow to arrive, i used LEAFSpy to read the DTCs. This was taking quite some time, but later after the car arrived at the dealer, i saw that it had completed.
Here's the LEAFSpy output for DTCs.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3ufHvfBd3jDXW4Sj6

The dealer had the car from Friday until this morning (the next Tuesday). They called me near the end of shift last night (16:00) to tell me they reset the codes and performed diagnostic procedures and the car was now working fine with no identified failures. I picked the car up at opening this morning.

From reading the 2015 manual on nicoclub, my understanding is that P315C indicates that one or both of P31CA or P31CB has been thrown. Procedure for either P31CA or P31CB is to clear the codes, attempt a attempt a quick charge for 10 seconds or more, and then see if the code is thrown again. If the code is throw, clear the code and repeat the process. If the code is thrown again, diagnose PDM and/or VCM and/or wiring. (paraphrased)
The documentation provided by the dealership regarding U1009 indicates this is essentially the same as the procedure indicated for u1008/1008A in the 2015 manual, and essentially the same procedure as above.

So, i expected when i got my car back from the dealership, that it would have +2 QC events logged in the ECU. However, instead i found +3 L1/L2 events.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Hg7RD6wjmFNAc6NT8

My first question then, should i consider LEAFSpy's report of QC and L1/L2 events reliable (i always have before) and assume that this means the dealership didn't actually perform the diagnostic procedure prescribed, and thus did little more than reset the codes and charge my car for me over L2?

My other question involves the notes left by the dealership on the service invoice (which was for $0 under warranty) Emphasis mine:
A - Customer states he was charging vehicle at charging station, and now car will not start, diag
Cause: NODJQX
NODJQX NO DEFECT FOUND
12 W hrs.
FC: 98
PART #: 296B15SA1B
COUNT: 1
CLAIM TYPE: PO
AUTH CODE:
Parts: 0.0 Labor: 0.0 Other: 0.0 Total 0.0
,,5736
,,Confirmed customers concern had 4 codes P315C-71, P31CA-71, P31CB-71, and U1009-96
,,The first code said to diag next two codes first. those codes said to diag the u1009-96. can cause other codes to come on.
,,Performed diag. Used quick charge and did not happen again. Customer note said try to turn on car while on charger.
,,You are not supposed to do that; can cause fail safe mode. Not supposed to be in car when using quick charge station.
,,U1009-06 can also come on. When quick chrager error signal is received from quick charger. When the time out error of quick charger is detected
B - Parked on east side of building
12 ISP hrs.
Parts: 0.0 Labor: 0.0 other: 0.0 total: 0.0

So first, it appears that my dealer thinks an L2 is a quick charge, which is troubling on it's own.
But more importantly, has anyone else ever been told you aren't supposed to attempt to put the car into "ON" mode while on the charger or that you aren't supposed to be in it while it's charging? CH-4 of the owners manual seems to directly contradict this. I asked the tech to provide documentation for this and he said he had none, only that is what they were told during training.

When i dropped my car off, my sales person also dropped another gem on me. "These cars aren't intended for long distance travel, they're really just for running around town." Anyone heard that one either?

First eliminate the obvious..
1. check the voltage of the 12v battery under the hood, should be 13volts or close..if less...charge it and if it wont go to 13 volts get a new 12v from your auto parts store.
2. Disconnect the 12v battery for a few minutes to clear the codes.
3. after reconnecting the battery and starting it a couple of times to get it to stop freaking out and start normally
4. connect your 120v portable charger that came with the car and see if it works
if the 120v portable charger works..its the charging station.

That its a town car is correct.. if you understood the concept of the EV, you would have an Aha moment... my 2015 only gets 50+/- miles on the freeway.
These are not long distance cars...were not designed to be.
Using the "440 fast charger" is a great way to burn out your EV battery.
And your battery should get a chance to cool after charging, as heat is the enemy of batteries. But I spent 4 years charging at night, driving to work at the morning...getting home, plugging it into the 6.6kw charger for 2 hours then going to my evening events....no problem.