240v question

[TimLee]

BTW, the upgrade is a great solution, but your car can charge even faster than the upgrade allows. Up to 6.0kW, where the upgrade tops out at 4.8kW. Also, it can be a nuisance to use the portable at home if you also want to take it with you all the time. You should look at the hang on the wall options as well, they'll let you charge at 6kW...but the upgrade is hard to beat on a price/performance basis.

Small clarification:
The OPs vehicle supports 6.0 kW into the battery, which is 6.6 kW from the oulet at up to 27.5 amps.
The 2013 forward EVSE upgrade standard application is limited to 4.8 kW from the wall at 20 amps.
But the 2013 forward International set up can support up to 25 amps, 6.0 kW from the wall.
With the right supplied information on breaker sizing, connectors, etc. they will supply US user the codes to go up to 25 amps.

 

[Nubo]

um, thanks, i guess. now i am terrified to plug in my car!
although i suppose that erases any doubts about whether I would do any electric work at all.

Best way to think of L1 charging is in terms of a space-heater running full-blast for up to 20 hours at a time; day after day. Not necessarily terrifying but it has to be respected and care should be taken that the equipment (wiring, outlet) is up to the task.

 

[fogdog]

Thanks again to everyone responding, I have learned so much from this conversation.

The electrician came today and said it looks like it will be relatively simple to install the 240v outlet (and will cost ~$300). Then I plan to send in my EVSE for the upgrade while I'm off work the next couple weeks.

A couple other questions:
1. I assume the outlet should be indoors since the "brick" should not be exposed to weather? Currently, the plug is indoors but I run the plug out of the basement door out to the car in the driveway. It's a loose fit, but I worry about repeatedly closing the door on the cord over time, so will probably need to cut a little hole in the bottom of the door to accommodate it.
2. EVSE Upgrade says you need 240v, 30amp. Is it ok to have more? Someone on this topic suggested installing 240v, 50amp in case I decide down the line to install a charging station. The electrician said he could do either. I don't imagine I'll ever install a charging station, but since it doesn't cost that much more, should I go for the 50? Are there benefits/drawbacks to this approach?

 

[davewill]

... A couple other questions:
1. I assume the outlet should be indoors since the "brick" should not be exposed to weather? Currently, the plug is indoors but I run the plug out of the basement door out to the car in the driveway. It's a loose fit, but I worry about repeatedly closing the door on the cord over time, so will probably need to cut a little hole in the bottom of the door to accommodate it.
2. EVSE Upgrade says you need 240v, 30amp. Is it ok to have more? Someone on this topic suggested installing 240v, 50amp in case I decide down the line to install a charging station. The electrician said he could do either. I don't imagine I'll ever install a charging station, but since it doesn't cost that much more, should I go for the 50? Are there benefits/drawbacks to this approach?

You'll have to buy/make an adapter for the 50a outlet, but since the 14-50 is popular (make sure he puts in a 14-50), most people get that one anyway. Otherwise no downsides. On the upside, when one of your friends with a Tesla Model S visits, they'll be able to plug THEIR portable EVSE into your outlet and charge at 10kW!

If you search on here, you'll find any number of solutions to getting the cord outside. Some folks have cut holes as you're thinking, others have put a small door in the wall to pass the cord through. The EVSE can take wet, and if you have a proper outdoor receptacle with a cover you could have it outside. You don't want the "brick" to sit in water, but getting rained on won't hurt it. Personally, I wouldn't do that day in and day out, though. I've done it occasionally, but the unit will undoubtedly weather if left exposed all the time. Another approach is to build or buy an enclosure to hold the receptacle, plug and EVSE. That way it's outside without being exposed.

 

[Levenkay]

2. EVSE Upgrade says you need 240v, 30amp. Is it ok to have more? Someone on this topic suggested installing 240v, 50amp in case I decide down the line to install a charging station. The electrician said he could do either. I don't imagine I'll ever install a charging station, but since it doesn't cost that much more, should I go for the 50? Are there benefits/drawbacks to this approach?

I'm not conversant with the electrical code, but assuming that common sense is a reasonable guide, I'd suggest that while sizing the panel-to-EVSE wiring for more current than you need right now is a legitimate and good "future-proofing" measure, the breaker that you install in that circuit should be sized according to the rating of the EVSE unit you intend to use initially, rather than for the ampacity of the wire you select. If and when "the future" arrives, and you install a higher-current EVSE, upgrade the breaker to match THEN.

The wiring inside an appliance like an EVSE is only responsible for safely carrying its rated maximum load current, because the appliance assumes that the external circuit breaker will prevent larger currents from flowing through it (unless the appliance provides its own internal breaker). If you go connecting an EVSE whose internal wiring is rated for 15A (an arbitrary number just for purposes of this example) to a beautifully solid 50A service, then it would be possible under some fault conditions for say, 30A to flow continuously through the circuit without fazing the big 50A breaker. And that might lead to a nasty fire.

 

[johnrhansen]

I say future proofing depends upon how hard it is to install the receptacle. If it is right by the box, just buy what you need and install it. later on if your needs change, Just rip out the old and put in the new. Or just leave the old one installed and put in your new circuit as well. But if it's far away or buried under a wall, yeah buy bigger wire, or run a big conduit with smaller wire that you can change the wire later. But put in the receptacle you need, connected to an appropriately sized breaker. If your 6 gauge wire is too big to attach to the smaller receptacle, you can wirenut in a small 10 gauge pigtail to connect it up. The 6 gauge wire ought to fit onto a 30 amp breaker. I believe it's legal to wire a 14-50 receptacle to a 30 amp breaker, but I think it's bad practice. I also think it's bad practice to run a 30 amp evse on a 50 amp circuit long term without auxiliary 30 amp fuses just in case.

 

[mdxc90]

I'm feeling really dumb about asking this question, but not finding the answer anywhere.

If I have an electrician come to install a 240v outlet (we already have 240 to the house for the dryer, just need an outlet closer to the car), can I then just plug the car into the outlet and it will charge at 240? Or, do I need to also purchase a charger in order to charge at 240?

Currently, I just trickle charge at 120, but with Christmas lights plugged in, have been tripping the breaker leading to some serious range-anxiety-filled days. So, thinking would be good to have the outlet anyway, but not if it also requires shelling out the ~$500 for a new charger.

OP you can also consider installing a Schneider EVlink that charges at 30 amp and will fully charge you car in uder 3 hours. Its on sale right now at home depot for $488 and using 10% off or Discover card you can save even more. This unit can be plugged into a 240 volt outlet if you install it with a dryer pigtail with a NEMA 14-50 plug (total equipment cost around $500). It comes with an 18 foot cord and remote cord holder with holster.

Yes it costs a little more but it charges the car at a faster rate and you can leave the Nissan supplied cord in the trunk and not worry about swapping back to a non-modified cord if you have to return a leased car. I was also thinking of the EVSE upgrade but I am glad I spent a little bit more money and went with a home EVSE.

 

[cwerdna]

OP you can also consider installing a Schneider EVlink that charges at 30 amp and will fully charge you car in uder 3 hours.

There's no way you can fully charge a dead Leaf in 3 hours via any L2 EVSE, let alone in under 3.

 

[RonDawg]

I say future proofing depends upon how hard it is to install the receptacle. If it is right by the box, just buy what you need and install it. later on if your needs change, Just rip out the old and put in the new. Or just leave the old one installed and put in your new circuit as well. But if it's far away or buried under a wall, yeah buy bigger wire, or run a big conduit with smaller wire that you can change the wire later. But put in the receptacle you need, connected to an appropriately sized breaker. If your 6 gauge wire is too big to attach to the smaller receptacle, you can wirenut in a small 10 gauge pigtail to connect it up. The 6 gauge wire ought to fit onto a 30 amp breaker. I believe it's legal to wire a 14-50 receptacle to a 30 amp breaker, but I think it's bad practice. I also think it's bad practice to run a 30 amp evse on a 50 amp circuit long term without auxiliary 30 amp fuses just in case.

Why not just run the thicker wire regardless of how far the panel is? The materials cost is not going to be much more.

OP you can also consider installing a Schneider EVlink that charges at 30 amp and will fully charge you car in uder 3 hours.

There's no way you can fully charge a dead Leaf in 3 hours via any L2 EVSE, let alone in under 3.

Yeah it's more like 5 hours for a 6.6 Leaf, and 8 hours for the Leaf S and all pre-2013 models.

 

[ElectricEddy]

OP you can also consider installing a Schneider EVlink that charges at 30 amp and will fully charge you car in uder 3 hours.

There's no way you can fully charge a dead Leaf in 3 hours via any L2 EVSE, let alone in under 3.

Unless the degraded pack maximum capacity is less than 18kwh

 

[cwerdna]

OP you can also consider installing a Schneider EVlink that charges at 30 amp and will fully charge you car in uder 3 hours.

There's no way you can fully charge a dead Leaf in 3 hours via any L2 EVSE, let alone in under 3.

Unless the degraded pack maximum capacity is less than 18kwh

Well, it'd have to be a fair amount less than that since charging goes full speed then ramps down and there are some bounces after it initially hits 0 (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=338038#p338038" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

 

[johnrhansen]

I know from experience that that last hour of charging is just fluff. It's at 100 percent an hour before the predicted stop time. My experience is from nearly dead (say 10 percent) to 95 percent could be done in 3 hours easy. that's only 4 or 5 miles range away from full.. close enough... and you have to be pretty brave to take your battery below 10 percent.

 

[MikeD]

Here is a thread from Tesla Model S owner's forum concerning issues some have had charging using Tesla's "UMC" (their portable EVSE) when using the proprietary NEMA 14-50 receptacle adapter: http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/melted-plug" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought seeing the different viewpoints expressed could be useful here...

Here is also a Tesla press release concerning their 14-50 receptacle overheating issue:
http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-provides-customers-upgraded-charging-software-and-adapter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[johnrhansen]

I don't think a NEMA 14-50 is rated for too many connect/disconnect cycles. They wear out rather quickly with regular use. Like in a RV park.

 

[MikeD]

I have read some more about Tesla's UMC previous 14-50 adapter overheating problems since my last post that involves this issue.

Tesla has recalled their 14-50 adapter and replaced it with a new one (distinguished from the old design by "-D" on the part number and being partially light-colored instead of all black). Regardless of whether the overheating originated within the adapter or between the adapter and the receptacle or in the receptacle's wiring, there is now a thermal fuse (or maybe two -- one for each power pin?) to detect overheating and disconnect the charging circuit before lasting damage is done. My understanding, however, is if a thermal fuse in the adapter "blows", the $45 adapter is thereafter unusable and would have to be replaced.

Tesla has stopped supplying a 6-50 adapter for this UMC used w/ the Model S, but I didn't see posts of overheating with it -- only the 14-50 adapter. I am speculating here, but maybe they had problems with too many 6-50 receptacles wired to be used as 40a circuits and not 50a circuits (which BTW is allowed by NEC and is in fact what most cord and plug EVSEs like made by Blink and Aerovironment require) and thought it wise to avoid 6-50. It is important to know that Tesla's UMC is designed to recognize which adapter is plugged into it and signal to the car the appropriate maximum amps that the circuit can handle, e.g. 40a for the 14-50 and 6-50 adapter.

I have read more than once that none of Tesla's EVSEs are UL listed, BTW.

My own recommendation is that since electrical "termination" points are notorious places for problems to occur, that it is prudent to keep them to a minimum, i.e. hard wire your EVSE if at all possible.