2F 80% Charge and 69 miles Not!

[dietersrover]

So, this morning I had a 80% charge about a 69 Mile range and it was 2 F outside.
Pre heated the Leaf which was nice, turned on the heat and started my 8 mile journey to work. When I got to work I had, about 50% charge and 39 miles left. I only went 8 miles.
I have no worries I'll make it back home. But really that's a big loss.
Just sharing.

 

[Randy]

We know that cold weather causes your LEAF to use more energy than in the warmer months, especially if you are running your heater.

The estimate of your remaining range is affectionately called the "Guess-o-meter" by long time forum members. While the estimation is better than it used to be with recent software updates, it shouldn't be relied upon as an absolute source...

Over time, you will develop a feeling for how much energy is required for the various trips you make in the car at different times of the year... Your battery will slowly start to lose capacity as well with time, miles, and exposure to heat, and this is to be expected (there are lots of threads to seek out and read about that when the time comes).

 

[dgpcolorado]

If you are basing your assumed range on the "Guess-o-meter" number — Nissan calls it "Distance to Empty" (DTE) — next to your fuel bars, you need to be aware that it can be wildly inaccurate and can't be relied on for range calculations. That number is a calculation based on how you were driving recently. It will vary with speed, weather, heater use, hills, and the like.

A better way to get an idea of range under your driving conditions is to use your SOC meter (% charge) to estimate how much energy you are using. A new LEAF might have about 21.5 kWh usable energy in the battery (but less when the battery is cold). 30% of that would be about 6.5 kWh. If you went eight miles, that works out to about 1.24 miles/kWh, which really is an exceptionally bad mileage efficiency and suggests a range of about 27 miles. Known mileage killers are heavy heater use, high speed, wind, snow, low tire pressure and, of course, very cold temperatures. Which of these might be factors in your low mileage you'd have to judge.

With practice you can learn to drive more efficiently, if it is a concern to you. I would suggest starting here:
Stoaty's Guide to Energy Efficient Driving of the Leaf


But if you'd like feedback on the range numbers provided by the GoM, sorry, it is known to be nearly useless under varying driving conditions and should just be ignored.

 

[GRA]

If you are basing your assumed range on the "Guess-o-meter" number — Nissan calls it "Distance to Empty" (DTE) — next to your fuel bars, you need to be aware that it can be wildly inaccurate and can't be relied on for range calculations. That number is a calculation based on how you were driving recently. It will vary with speed, weather, heater use, hills, and the like.

A better way to get an idea of range under your driving conditions is to use your SOC meter (% charge) to estimate how much energy you are using. A new LEAF might have about 21.5 kWh usable energy in the battery (but less when the battery is cold). 30% of that would be about 6.5 kWh. If you went eight miles, that works out to about 1.24 miles/kWh, which really is an exceptionally bad mileage efficiency and suggests a range of about 27 miles. Known mileage killers are heavy heater use, high speed, wind, snow, low tire pressure and, of course, very cold temperatures. Which of these might be factors in your low mileage you'd have to judge.

With practice you can learn to drive more efficiently, if it is a concern to you. I would suggest starting here:
Stoaty's Guide to Energy Efficient Driving of the Leaf


But if you'd like feedback on the range numbers provided by the GoM, sorry, it is known to be nearly useless under varying driving conditions and should just be ignored.

Just thought I'd mention to the OP that a Tesla S-85 owner who is currently going cross-country with his daughter used 508Wh/mile in -3 deg. F driving 65-70 mph across southern Minnesota and SD, with the climate control set at 72 deg. 1.24 mi/kWh would work out to about 800 Wh/mile, which is virtually impossible unless you're trying to tow the space shuttle with your LEAF As others have said, just ignore the GoM.

 

[evnow]

So, this morning I had a 80% charge about a 69 Mile range and it was 2 F outside.

Your Leaf had no idea, it was 2F outside. It only knew how much it consumed in the last 5 or so miles. That 69 miles is based on the last 5 or so miles - not on your future driving, which it can't predict.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

So, this morning I had a 80% charge about a 69 Mile range and it was 2 F outside.
Pre heated the Leaf which was nice, turned on the heat and started my 8 mile journey to work. When I got to work I had, about 50% charge and 39 miles left. I only went 8 miles.
I have no worries I'll make it back home. But really that's a big loss.
Just sharing.

The best thing in what you've written here? You have an 8 mile ride to work! You can blast all the heat you want, you're going to get to work and back and then some.

If it's really bad out, charge up to 100%. Charge every day. If you don't hit VLBW you're doing good.

Relax, whatever you pay for electricity, it's probably less than gas would cost you, even when it is this cold.

 

[camasleaf]

Pre heated the Leaf which was nice.

Was the car pluged in when you preheated? L1 or L2 EVSE? How long did you preheat?

 

[CMYK4Life]

when I charge to 100% in similiar conditions... with no pre-heat... and run the heat full blast... and do nothing but 'city driving' i get about 36 miles until vlbw. Like you my commute is short... but its the truth. 36 miles.

 

[CRLeafSL]

I would also like to back up dietersrover here. 2012 Leaf SL and I do leave mine plugged in overnight when it's going to be below zero. Lately here it's been about -5 degrees F and I do preheat with the car still plugged in for about 15 to 20 mins. The only difference is I charge to 100% not 80%, but with these cold temps, I'm getting about 35 to 40 miles at best before I'm getting down to Low Battery Warning. This is not going off the Guess O Meter, that is actual driving miles and I'm going off the battery bars to know roughly where the battery level is. This car was not designed very well to be driven in these cold climates unless you want to brave it and go without the heater. My heater is set to 75 degrees and i do run it cause I hate the cold. This car is not a winter vehicle by any means. One more thing to work on with the Leaf.

 

[dietersrover]

Thanks for all the reply's.
Don't get me wrong I really enjoy my Leaf. And I do believe it has saved me money. The reason I got it was that I found myself paying about $300.00 in petrol a month. I still have and use my Land Rover but not as a daily driver.
My Leaf is an 2013 I've only have about 1,800 miles on it. I pay about 4.8 cents Kwh off peak.
I did have it plugged in doing pre heating. I usally charge it to 100% on the weekends, when I find I need the extra mileage.
Again thanks
Derek

 

[StuRatus]

Yep, this is the unfortunate reality in the cold weather. Even with my 2013 SV (3k miles), keeping the heat at 75F in -10F conditions I get just over 30mi on 100% charge. In the summer I was getting 75-80. If you look at the energy display, you can see the heater drawing 5kW in these conditions. Figure in also that winter driving is frequently slower, which further exacerbates the time one must run the heater.

However, this is still one of the best winter cars I've owned in MN. I can deal with the reduced range, fortunately. Pre-heating from Carwings when you leave work and getting into a car with a hot steering wheel, seat and cabin is a great joy. Same goes for cold winter mornings while plugged in at home.

Like anything, pros and cons. All we need is a 100mi winter/150mi summer car and these problems go away!

Stewart

 

[GRA]

No doubt about it, the car can have a sub-30 mile range in sub-zero temps with use of heat and defrost. The lack of a full-function battery warmer is a major handicap in cold climates. My concern was with the OP relying on the GoM.

 

[RonDawg]

The reason I got it was that I found myself paying about $300.00 in petrol a month. I still have and use my Land Rover but not as a daily driver.

16 miles per day x 5 days per week x 4 weeks per month is 320 miles. That Land Rover costs almost a dollar per mile to drive

 

[dgpcolorado]

...However, this is still one of the best winter cars I've owned in MN. I can deal with the reduced range, fortunately. Pre-heating from Carwings when you leave work and getting into a car with a hot steering wheel, seat and cabin is a great joy. Same goes for cold winter mornings while plugged in at home...

Yes. A couple of years ago most of the LEAFs were in mild climates and it was hard to get people to appreciate how nice the preheating feature is for those of us in cold weather areas.

This thread, and the other cold weather threads, are why some of us try to discourage prospective LEAF owners in the snowbelt from thinking that the car will be appropriate for sixty plus mile commutes without reliable workplace charging. Unless one is really committed to making it work that is often very hard to do.


To the OP, dietersrover, (and others): If you haven't already done so, you might want to increase the tire pressure from the book value, 36 psi (250 kPa), to at least 40 psi (275 kPa). There is considerable empirical evidence that Nissan's recommended pressure is too low for best mileage and tire wear. It won't be much but it might help with the mileage a bit.

Happy LEAFing!

 

[CRLeafSL]

I just wanted to say that I do really enjoy the car in the summer, not a fan of it at all in the winter. Yes the carwings app to preheat the cabin is a nice feature, but so is remote start that we have on my wife's car which is not an electric. I can understand having some reduced range in the cold as it is harder on vehicles gas cars included. But to have a car that can only go 30 miles or so in temps around 0 degrees with using the heater so you don't freeze is absolutely ridiculous. Nissan HAS to do better than this. Again I think they need to start taking more notes from Tesla and put a TMS on this thing that should have been there from day one. Warm that battery up, and we won't see the significant drops in the range as we do. Stupidest thing Nissan did is not put a TMS on it and I refuse to lease or even consider another Nissan electric car until they pull their heads out of there As*** and realize that it does in fact need it. I know you guys are going to come back and say you don't need it with better battery technology and I'll rebut that and say your Wrong. It does need TMS and there is no way around that. Period.

 

[GRA]

I just wanted to say that I do really enjoy the car in the summer, not a fan of it at all in the winter. Yes the carwings app to preheat the cabin is a nice feature, but so is remote start that we have on my wife's car which is not an electric. I can understand having some reduced range in the cold as it is harder on vehicles gas cars included. But to have a car that can only go 30 miles or so in temps around 0 degrees with using the heater so you don't freeze is absolutely ridiculous. Nissan HAS to do better than this. Again I think they need to start taking more notes from Tesla and put a TMS on this thing that should have been there from day one. Warm that battery up, and we won't see the significant drops in the range as we do. Stupidest thing Nissan did is not put a TMS on it and I refuse to lease or even consider another Nissan electric car until they pull their heads out of there As*** and realize that it does in fact need it. I know you guys are going to come back and say you don't need it with better battery technology and I'll rebut that and say your Wrong. It does need TMS and there is no way around that. Period.

Actually, many of us have been saying that for a couple of years now.

 

[UBUYGAS]

Two days ago I needed to go to a client that was 12 miles away. The GOM said 88, When I arrived I had 68 on the GOM, Not bad. It was 4F. I did not use heat at all.

On the way home it went up to 18F, I used the heat home and arrived with 24 miles on the GOM.


So I used 20 miles range to get there with no heat and 4F

To go back home I used 44 miles range with heat and 18F

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

The app based preheat is how I sold my wife On the car. I have done an 80 mile run at 0f, but has to to off in the middle just to be careful. Wish you could preheat the battery easier.

 

[Yvesm]

If you check the mods section , I put a message of heat pads I stuck under the battery pack. It heats up the battery to doubles the distance travelled at those low temps. And I always have the inside heat at maximun using the car. It is easy to do and does not cost much. About $150.

 

[CRLeafSL]

I read your forum post about adding the heat pads Yvesm, which is a great idea. My point is I shouldn't have to do that to make an auto manufacturers car work in the cold. Nissan should be doing that, not me. That would basically be like me making a gas car that is severely underpowered and then telling the owners/drivers of those cars that it will be fine if you add a turbo to produce more power. That's not a fix. I should be making the car work as the manufacturer.