66 mile commute in Wisconsin

[thefortunes]

I am getting close to pulling the trigger on a 2011 orphan, but would like some feedback about estimated range for my commute.

I am in Wisconsin (read as COLD). My garage is not heated, but typically stays just above freezing in the winter (since it is connected to and under living areas)

I drive about 33 miles each way (90% on the highway at 55mph).

I have not asked my client (long-term contract) if I could charge at their facility, but I doubt it...so let's assume no.

Looking at the chart, it appears that when it is VERY cold (0F, which is not out of the ordinary here in January and February) it appears that I can can only assume about 60 miles of range at 55mph. Because half of the drive would be after "warming" in the garage overnight I am going to calculate the range based on 15F (average of 30F garage and 0F outside). This gets me an additional 7 miles and puts me right at my commute.

Now, I have other cars I COULD take if it is that cold, but am curious if the experts here think I am being realistic on the range for cold ONLY (I know what snow, wind, etc... does to range and would probably take the Prius if weather was bad). Also, morning temps now are right around 30F and I typically don't have heat on (just a warm-blooded person I guess) so I don't anticipate a huge climate control hit.

BTW, I have a Prius and a Zenn, so I am very familar with hypermiling and believe that I would beat the chart, but let's assume I'm typical for this exercise.

 

[HighDesertDriver]

I am getting close to pulling the trigger on a 2011 orphan, but would like some feedback about estimated range for my commute.

I am in Wisconsin (read as COLD). My garage is not heated, but typically stays just above freezing in the winter (since it is connected to and under living areas) . . . Because half of the drive would be after "warming" in the garage overnight I am going to calculate the range based on 15F (average of 30F garage and 0F outside). This gets me an additional 7 miles and puts me right at my commute . . .

Others here on the forum (such as "abisile") are better qualified than me to comment on cold weather operations, but it is not clear if your estimates are based on preheating the car's interior before leaving and/or maintaining that heat during the commute. That decision will obviously impact your mileage. Also, since there is only anecdotal data on the battery's thermal inertia, assuming the MY2011 battery temp is equal to the outside air temp is likely a conservative starting point. Timing the charging cycle to end just before the interior preheat starts will likely give you the highest battery core temperature before your hit the road.

 

[thefortunes]

Others here on the forum (such as "abisile") are better qualified than me to comment on cold weather operations, but it is not clear if your estimates are based on preheating the car's interior before leaving and/or maintaining that heat during the commute. That decision will obviously impact your mileage. Also, since there is only anecdotal data on the battery's thermal inertia, assuming the MY2011 battery temp is equal to the outside air temp is likely a conservative starting point. Timing the charging cycle to end just before the interior preheat starts will likely give you the highest battery core temperature before your hit the road.

Actually the preheating is a point I hadn't considered in my estimate. I certainly plan on preheating in the garage (which should only IMPROVE my figures).

I HAD planned on timing the charging appropriately for the reason you mentioned - thanks for the reminder.

 

[adric22]

I live in Texas so I don't have a lot of cold-weather data. But I would also agree that 66 miles should be doable if you pre-heat the car and the batteries have recently finished charging, meaning they'll still be warm when you set out on your commute. I would typically expect it to have warmed up outside a little before your return trip home. Driving very gently would also help, especially if you can avoid fast highway speeds, and avoid using the heater en-route.

However... I have to admit I'd be a little worried about a trip that long on a daily basis. You would be pushing it really close every day and if something came up unexpected, then it might be a problem.

Unless charging is available at a workplace, I typically recommend people with more than 40 miles daily commute to consider a different vehicle. Sure, you can do it with a Leaf, but I don't think you're the target market.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I am getting close to pulling the trigger on a 2011 orphan

You didn't mention it, but does this car have the Cold Weather Package? If not, I would strongly suggest finding a car with it (there are some available here in California).

If your trip is 66 miles, that first 33 miles might be "easy" with preheating the cabin and the battery (stick electric seat heaters on the metal bottom of the battery and plug it in).

The return trip, presuming sitting in sub zero weather for 8 hours, will be fun. Don't they have 120 volt plug-ins for engine heaters up there? That's all you need is 120v. Tell your client you need to heat up the engine (you're not charging); maybe that'll sound "normal".

You sound well adjusted for this challenge, but I strongly.... STRONGLY suggest getting the CWP in the car.

Edit: The Cold Weather Package will extend your range (that you'll be cutting very close daily) by not letting the battery temp go below -20C (-14F) and allowing you to stay warm with possible no heater use (perhaps 100w draw for the steering wheel and seat heaters -vs- 1500w for the climate control heater)

 

[thefortunes]

I am getting close to pulling the trigger on a 2011 orphan

You didn't mention it, but does this car have the Cold Weather Package? If not, I would strongly suggest finding a car with it (there are some available here in California).

If your trip is 66 miles, that first 33 miles might be "easy" with preheating the cabin and the battery (stick electric seat heaters on the metal bottom of the battery and plug it in).

The return trip, presuming sitting in sub zero weather for 8 hours, will be fun. Don't they have 120 volt plug-ins for engine heaters up there? That's all you need is 120v. Tell your client you need to heat up the engine (you're not charging); maybe that'll sound "normal".

You sound well adjusted for this challenge, but I strongly.... STRONGLY suggest getting the CWP in the car.

Thanks. Yes the orphan (that sounds so sad) does have the cwp.

Nope, most businesses do NOT have plug-ins for engine heaters. In fact, most people here don't even know what they are (except for people with diesels). When I put one in my Prius (to help with the mileage due to faster warmups) people thought I was charging it - LOL.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes the orphan (that sounds so sad) does have the cwp.

Nope, most businesses do NOT have plug-ins for engine heaters.

That seems odd. We have them in Montana, where I grew up. Not everywhere, but if you asked about it, folks would know what you're talking about.

Good move on the CWP. You can still get additional advantage with preheating the battery with any kind of stick-on electric heaters on the metal bottom of the battery. DON'T USE AN OIL PAN HEATER !!!! They are too hot. Electric blanket, seat heater, etc.

The CWP does not heat the battery to your range advantage... it heats it to protect it from freezing. If you can get that huge battery mass up to 80F or 90F, it should hold that heat a long time. For 8 hours sitting in really cold weather, however, it's a wild guess what heat might remain. Not much if any, which is why you want that home made battery heater plugged in at your destination.

 

[thefortunes]

The CWP does not heat the battery to your range advantage... it heats it to protect it from freezing. If you can get that huge battery mass up to 80F or 90F, it should hold that heat a long time. For 8 hours sitting in really cold weather, however, it's a wild guess what heat might remain. Not much if any, which is why you want that home made battery heater plugged in at your destination.

If you had power available, wouldn't it make more sense just to charge it? (Unless your employer would not allow that but would allow engine heating :roll: )

 

[TonyWilliams]

If you had power available, wouldn't it make more sense just to charge it? (Unless your employer would not allow that but would allow engine heating :roll: )

At the beginning of the day, do both (full charge and heat the battery).

Given a choice of ONLY charging up at midday, OR heating the battery, absolutely charge up the battery.

The OP said that he didn't think he'd be able to charge midday, and my thinking was that engine heaters were common in his neighborhood, and that he'd be more likely to ask for an "engine heat" than a scary unknown like "EV charging".

 

[kmp647]

having commuted 64m RT for 2 weeks here in Northern Va with temps in the 30s at night and 45 to 60 day time highs
(car is parked outside) I preheat before I leave home.

I would very much prefer access to L1 for a small trickle, then preheat before leaving on your return trip home.
You will be warmer and more confident on your return trip!

Without access to L1 trickle and or pre-heat...... cold trip home. Heated seat on high, heated wheel helping, cold feet.
If it snows.... not good this all assumes high speed commute both ways(you are ok if its a low speed roads)
with L1 trickle and preheat, full speed cruise and auto climate at 68F ! heated seat on low !
and you have spare juice for the defroster and such if you get snow or ice.

Keep in mind I am only 3 weeks and 900 miles into ownership.

and it hasnt gotten super cold here yet( we get some 5-10 degree F nights here)

Look for and try to get that L1 permission!

 

[Reddy]

I haven't seen temps below 20 F yet with the Leaf, but I won't plan on trips >60 mi in the winter. I have driven close to that (with the heat blasting), but it's all been in town at lower speeds. I did a 100 mi RT out-of-town trip in August at highway speeds and about 4 hrs of 120 V charging that was much easier than I expected. I wasn't comfortable with the range at highway speeds and it was my first long trip. Heck, I've only seen the "low battery warning" once or twice and it was because I hadn't charged in two or three days!

You should be fine in the AM with the batteries still "warm" from the garage. However, below zero temps will be a problem for the return trip. Even without heat/defrost, if the batteries get that cold during the day, you will have trouble with range. I have a small NiMH battery for my bicycle light that works just fine above 20 F (I normally charge it once per week). Below 20 F, and especially near zero, the capacity drops dramatically so that I need to charge daily for the same 30 min ride. Below -10 or -20 F, I would expect my bike battery to be essentially useless. I now bring the battery inside at work to keep it warm. Even though the car battery mass is much larger and won't cool all the way down to ambient temperatures, it will still get pretty cold at -20 F. If you can shift your work schedule so the return trip is around 4pm, then you might be able to keep the car parked in the sun, warming it slightly. My experience has been that most ultra-low cold temps (at least in WA and CO) occur when the sky is clear and the sunshine is fairly strong during the day. Perhaps you can do something similar. If they won't let you charge at work, what about parking inside? That would certainly help keep the batteries much warmer.

In any case, I would still get the car and drive it as much as possible (probably >90% of the days), shifting to another car when conditions were too cold.

Reddy
(only 1800 miles in 4 months)

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i put just over 12,000 miles on my Zenn before i made room for the Leaf

66 miles @ 55 mph can be done. preheating while still plugged in is a good idea and timing the charge cycle to be done as close to your departure time as possible will also help

but; are you driving on a muli lane freeway? i ask because if i were in your position, i would drive 50 mph if that is what it took to make it work. on a single lane road, that probably wont be an option.

the other thing you can do is get a portable 12 volt heater or an add in car seat heater. have used both and they do help

now, for our area which is not as cold (lowest we expect on a semi regular basis might be the mid 20's but generally its the upper 30's) i am seeing around 70-75 miles of range at 60-65 mph. that is minimal climate control. just enough to clear the windows so i suggest, dress warm

in the summer, it will be a breeze even with the A/C blasting away

 

[abasile]

Driving the LEAF can be sort of addictive; it's really hard to go back to driving a gasoline or hybrid car. My guess is that you will find yourself doing whatever it takes to use the LEAF even on some of the more marginal days. However, pulling the trigger and making the purchase can require a step of faith, particularly in situations like yours. I certainly felt that way about purchasing a LEAF for use in the mountains where we live, and almost didn't go through with the purchase. But it is exciting to help pioneer the move away from petroleum dependency. Somebody has to say "enough is enough" and seize the opportunity. I'd rather let the Saudis, etc. keep their oil, because we don't need it!

 

[thefortunes]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I have already made the move...have been driving a Zenn the last couple years whenever possible (well, I should say I have been forcing the kids to - lol).

Talked with the dealer today - they misrepresented the car - it is their demo and won't be available for another month, so we'll see.

 

[evnow]

Talked with the dealer today - they misrepresented the car - it is their demo and won't be available for another month, so we'll see.

Check the CA '11 cars with cwp. Even with shipping they will be cheaper.

I think with your zenn/prius experience you can do 66 miles in WI. If you expect a snowstorm & long traffic jams take the prius.

 

[Herm]

electrically heated motorcycle vest, an example:

http://tinyurl.com/cw36rbl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[thefortunes]

Talked with the dealer today - they misrepresented the car - it is their demo and won't be available for another month, so we'll see.

Check the CA '11 cars with cwp. Even with shipping they will be cheaper.

I think with your zenn/prius experience you can do 66 miles in WI. If you expect a snowstorm & long traffic jams take the prius.

I've been trying to find another with cwp...so far, no luck.

If anyone comes across one in discussions with their dealer I would appreciate a 'heads up.'

Thanks.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Did you call Mossy in Kearny Mesa (San Diego) ?

8118 Clairemont Mesa Boulevard
San Diego
(858) 565-6608

I just called them, and they have an Ocean Blue, White, and a Silver 2012 orphan, looking for a 2011 w/CWP.

They've shipped plenty of cars. It sounds like you already contacted them, so I'll let you handle it from there.

Tony

 

[thefortunes]

Thanks for the thought.

I have emailed Leon and, as you said, he doesn't have any 2011's.

 

[LeafinThePark]

I've been trying to find another with cwp...so far, no luck.

If anyone comes across one in discussions with their dealer I would appreciate a 'heads up.'

Thanks.

Me too!

I'm in Minnesota and am in the same boat...looking for a 2011 orphan with CWP. Earlier this week I though I found one...but after contacting the dealer they said it was a 'misprint' on the website.

http://www.vallejonissan.com/VehicleDetails/new-2011-Nissan-LEAF-4dr_HB_SV_w%2FCold_Weather_Pkg_*Ltd_Avail*-Vallejo-CA/1123706173" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course it's two days later and they haven't fixed it.